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Post by geoff738 on Jun 5, 2020 19:54:10 GMT -6
Ok. Who loves ortf or xy, rather than spaced pair. Or other.
I’ve always just done spaced pair, but haven’t really spent much time trying other stuff. In mostly bad rooms with low ceilings.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Ward on Jun 6, 2020 6:37:59 GMT -6
Ok. Who loves ortf or xy, rather than spaced pair. Or other. I’ve always just done spaced pair, but haven’t really spent much time trying other stuff. In mostly bad rooms with low ceilings. Cheers, Geoff Me. Both of them. I can't remember the last time I used AB spaced pair.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jun 6, 2020 10:28:10 GMT -6
I like having a spaced pair of oh (usually 4038's) with a blumlein stereo pair front of kit 4-5 feet out. Conceptually I think of all my room mics and oh as the same thing. Like they're all the same family and during mix I pick the best combo of each
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 6, 2020 12:15:09 GMT -6
Mickey Most demanded that I "duck the cymbals" when I was recording Jeff Beck. All we had at Motown were Neumann KM-86s and a couple of 67s I didn't want to take the time to set up. The only thing I could think of was to set the overhead 86 to figure-8 and line it up with the edges of Cozy Powell's cymbals.
The result sounded so spectacular that I've always used a figure-8 or two since. Ribbons can be pretty good too but in recent times I've used 67s.
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Post by timcampbell on Jun 6, 2020 12:40:28 GMT -6
Bob that is such a great piece of advice. Thank you.
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Post by thirdeye on Jun 6, 2020 12:51:52 GMT -6
Mickey Most demanded that I "duck the cymbals" when I was recording Jeff Beck. All we had at Motown were Neumann KM-86s and a couple of 67s I didn't want to take the time to set up. The only thing I could think of was to set the overhead 86 to figure-8 and line it up with the edges of Cozy Powell's cymbals. The result sounded so spectacular that I've always used a figure-8 or two since. Ribbons can be pretty good too but in recent times I've used 67s. I am having trouble visualizing what you described. Can you perhaps give a little more detail? Sounds like a technique I’d like to try!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 6, 2020 13:02:51 GMT -6
His cymbals were the same height on each side. The purpose of an overhead drum microphone is to pick up the entire kit. It isn't a cymbal mike like are used in PA systems.
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Post by schmalzy on Jun 6, 2020 13:45:19 GMT -6
Ok. Who loves ortf or xy, rather than spaced pair. Or other. I’ve always just done spaced pair, but haven’t really spent much time trying other stuff. In mostly bad rooms with low ceilings. Cheers, Geoff Horses for courses, my man! I've never liked what ORTF has given me in my room. I end up just wanting XY. ORTF seems to prefer a better/livelier sounding room than I have. XY is narrower-sounding to me than ORTF. ORTF is narrower than spaced pair. Spaced pair gives me a more in-your-face cymbal sound and a de-accentuated center while XY gives me a much more balanced kit sound. What does the song's arrangement look like? Do I think there's going to be a lot of stuff crowding the center of the mix? Do I think there's going to be a lot of stuff out wide? Do I need to de-accentuate the natural drum and go for big impact or am I trying to really go for natural? Do I think I'm going to be trying to lean on room mics for a lot of the drum sound?
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Post by Ward on Jun 7, 2020 6:10:30 GMT -6
Mickey Most demanded that I "duck the cymbals" when I was recording Jeff Beck. All we had at Motown were Neumann KM-86s and a couple of 67s I didn't want to take the time to set up. The only thing I could think of was to set the overhead 86 to figure-8 and line it up with the edges of Cozy Powell's cymbals. The result sounded so spectacular that I've always used a figure-8 or two since. Ribbons can be pretty good too but in recent times I've used 67s. Curious. And I just remembered the last time I used a spaced pair on overheads, for Canadian band Two Guitars Clash. Made the drums sound fantastic but wasn't as kind to cymbals. But sounded great on sirius xm! (that was a giggle . . . nothing sounds great on sirius xm)
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 7, 2020 7:25:58 GMT -6
Mickey Most demanded that I "duck the cymbals" when I was recording Jeff Beck. All we had at Motown were Neumann KM-86s and a couple of 67s I didn't want to take the time to set up. The only thing I could think of was to set the overhead 86 to figure-8 and line it up with the edges of Cozy Powell's cymbals. The result sounded so spectacular that I've always used a figure-8 or two since. Ribbons can be pretty good too but in recent times I've used 67s. Curious. And I just remembered the last time I used a spaced pair on overheads, for Canadian band Two Guitars Clash. Made the drums sound fantastic but wasn't as kind to cymbals. But sounded great on sirius xm! (that was a giggle . . . nothing sounds great on sirius xm) It’s amazing how awful Sirius sounds. Can’t stand listening to it!
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Post by Ward on Jun 7, 2020 8:29:10 GMT -6
Curious. And I just remembered the last time I used a spaced pair on overheads, for Canadian band Two Guitars Clash. Made the drums sound fantastic but wasn't as kind to cymbals. But sounded great on sirius xm! (that was a giggle . . . nothing sounds great on sirius xm) It’s amazing how awful Sirius sounds. Can’t stand listening to it! But hey, talk radio including news and comedy channels are bearable!
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Post by drumsound on Jun 7, 2020 14:38:21 GMT -6
Ok. Who loves ortf or xy, rather than spaced pair. Or other. I’ve always just done spaced pair, but haven’t really spent much time trying other stuff. In mostly bad rooms with low ceilings. Cheers, Geoff I use ORTF a lot. I orient the pair on the diagonal of the BD and SD. I really like what it does for location cues. I did do some tracking last week that I went with a spaced pair. I had the pretty wide, and off axis to anything. I placed them pointing down. I dropped a cable from the mic and placed them so it went straight to the floor. The nicest thing about this was that I didn't stand up and bang into the mic, like happens with low ORTF...
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Post by nnajar on Jun 7, 2020 23:14:47 GMT -6
I never used spaced pair. I would use a spaced pair if I needed coverage and was working in mono. But for stereo drums it will be usually XY. Schoeps CMC641 here. If I'm working with upright bass in the same room (about 75% of the time), the bass mic becomes a mono room mic and then, depending on the rest of the ensemble or arrangement the drums might collapse too much. If that happens I might switch to ORTF to get more width.
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Post by svart on Jun 8, 2020 7:29:57 GMT -6
I'm usually ORTF with my Gefell M930's if I use them on overheads. They tend to pick up more cymbal brashness (mainly hats) if I try to use them spaced. On the other hand, I use the KM184's as spaced pairs since they aren't affected as much by the cymbals.
Height has a lot to do with the sound too. If I use ORTF, I bring them down lower (about 1.5 drumsticks away from highest cymbals) and I think being somewhat off-axis(from perpendicular) from the cymbals tends to smooth them out a bit. With the spaced pair I tend to angle them a little too and keep them higher (about 2.5-3 drumsticks higher), which helps.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 8, 2020 8:16:19 GMT -6
Haven’t used spaced pair for OH in years. Once more recently i had a spaced pair of ribbons on either side of the kit, like corners of a triangle relative to the K/S center, and a mono OH.
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Post by mulmany on Jun 8, 2020 8:55:55 GMT -6
I default to spaced pair. Not sure why... I use ortf on occasion, and Glynn John's. I find that drummers seem to love the over wide spaced pair sound. Maybe it's what they are use to seeing and makes sense to their concepts.
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Post by drsax on Jun 8, 2020 8:56:04 GMT -6
Ok. Who loves ortf or xy, rather than spaced pair. Or other. I’ve always just done spaced pair, but haven’t really spent much time trying other stuff. In mostly bad rooms with low ceilings. Cheers, Geoff I use XY on my Coles overheads. Sounds spectacular
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Post by Guitar on Jun 8, 2020 9:06:21 GMT -6
I know I say this all the time, but if you want to save a few bucks, grab a pair of Shure KSM137. They have been my go-to for a very long time.
And then ribbon mics and/or EV dynamic mics in the room.
I like to have a strong center channel kick snare image so I usually use "narrow" ORTF centered on the kick/snare line. Room mics are also "centered." 90 degree XY was just slightly boring to me for some reason, but it works fine. These days I prefer a 120 degree XY in general, but the "narrow ortf" on drum overheads is more like 60 degrees. Just picking up the left and right "chunks" of the drum set sort of dead on.
With a widely spaced pair it's nice to have a center OH mic as well to get more of the kick/snare. So three mics, that can be different to one another, they don't have to match other than the L/R mics. Pan L/C/R.
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Post by drumsound on Jun 8, 2020 15:36:46 GMT -6
Ok. Who loves ortf or xy, rather than spaced pair. Or other. I’ve always just done spaced pair, but haven’t really spent much time trying other stuff. In mostly bad rooms with low ceilings. Cheers, Geoff I use XY on my Coles overheads. Sounds spectacular XY with figure 8 pattern is technically Blumlein.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 8, 2020 17:05:11 GMT -6
I use XY on my Coles overheads. Sounds spectacular XY with figure 8 pattern is technically Blumlein. Yeah, depends on angle. People do all sorts of variations within XY. Some concert tapers who like dual figure 8's express preference for something narrower like 80º to the front.
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Post by drumsound on Jun 9, 2020 0:10:25 GMT -6
XY with figure 8 pattern is technically Blumlein. Yeah, depends on angle. People do all sorts of variations within XY. Some concert tapers who like dual figure 8's express preference for something narrower like 80º to the front. I guess I should have been more specific. 90º figure 8= Blumlien
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Post by robertg on Jun 21, 2020 8:20:57 GMT -6
I love the Audio SCX-25a. Very underrated for overheads. They live there above my kit. Cymbals and drums sound so natural and Toms are very full and round.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 8:09:41 GMT -6
I hate XY. I've done it a couple times and I really regretted that decision when it was time to mix. I love a wide image with the cymbals. ORTF is great. I mostly do a spaced pair lately though. Well, not lately. Lately I've been wishing I could do a spaced pair.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 22, 2020 8:28:49 GMT -6
I've been using BeesNeez Lulu Fet mics in a spaced pair and am happy with the results.
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Post by forgotteng on Jun 22, 2020 17:30:17 GMT -6
This has been quite a journey for me. And I’m not sure anyone would want to follow my lead but I always used a spaced pair and depending on the style of music I used CharterOaks S600’s and believe it or not AudioTechnica Pro37’s which are raw and just work on heavier stuff. Then I got to the point where a wide stereo image wasn’t typically what I was looking for and I moved to a Rode K2 as a mono overhead. I’ve also used Rode NTR ribbons figure 8 as underheads for a specific jazz drummer.
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