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Post by hadaja on May 29, 2020 16:06:33 GMT -6
I recently got the email of the latest version on Matt’s DIY kit of the SDC84 (km84 copy).
has anyone actually made one of these cardoid versions and can report back on them? It is said to be be in the middle of a km84 and a km184 but report is from the manufacturer.
Just wondering more specially about the off axis colour/bleed/tone and how that compares to the km84 as that part is is important to me as well as the direct sound.
thanks
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Post by dreamsambas on May 29, 2020 16:44:08 GMT -6
Does he use Neumann KK84 capsules?
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Post by svart on May 29, 2020 16:57:51 GMT -6
Does he use Neumann KK84 capsules? Can you actually buy them without a serial number? I'd heard you couldn't buy them unless you owned a mic and they verified your serial. |
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Post by hadaja on May 29, 2020 17:24:52 GMT -6
Does he use Neumann KK84 capsules? No they are not neumann capsules. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 29, 2020 17:48:22 GMT -6
Does he use Neumann KK84 capsules? Can you actually buy them without a serial number? I'd heard you couldn't buy them unless you owned a mic and they verified your serial. Last I heard you could, worst case you ask a friend for his serial#. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 29, 2020 17:50:03 GMT -6
Does he use Neumann KK84 capsules? Can you actually buy them without a serial number? I'd heard you couldn't buy them unless you owned a mic and they verified your serial. It’s listed as an add to cart item on the B&H site. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 29, 2020 17:50:47 GMT -6
Does he use Neumann KK84 capsules? No they are not neumann capsules. Does he use the same size barrel and threading? |
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Post by stratboy on May 29, 2020 19:37:59 GMT -6
Can you actually buy them without a serial number? I'd heard you couldn't buy them unless you owned a mic and they verified your serial. It’s listed as an add to cart item on the B&H site. I just ordered an 84 cap from B&H. No questions asked. |
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Post by dreamsambas on May 29, 2020 21:37:44 GMT -6
Didn't realize Matt was the Roswell Audio guy. I have always been super impressed with the samples I've heard of their mics.
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Post by Vincent R. on May 29, 2020 23:36:22 GMT -6
It has a similar frequency response to the 3U Warbler. Made me wonder if they were using 3U to make the capsules.
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Post by craigmorris74 on May 30, 2020 9:04:43 GMT -6
It has a similar frequency response to the 3U Warbler. Made me wonder if they were using 3U to make the capsules. The capsules look identical. You can be them cheaper from 3u. Another option is to wait a bit for the next GroupDIY order of 84 kits, where you'll be able to source whatever transformer you want. |
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Post by mulmany on May 30, 2020 10:21:37 GMT -6
It has a similar frequency response to the 3U Warbler. Made me wonder if they were using 3U to make the capsules. The capsules look identical. You can be them cheaper from 3u. Another option is to wait a bit for the next GroupDIY order of 84 kits, where you'll be able to source whatever transformer you want. The banzai diy 84 kits sound great, they also have good off axis response. Have not compared then to originals though. |
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Post by swafford on May 30, 2020 13:49:44 GMT -6
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Post by mrholmes on May 30, 2020 16:13:06 GMT -6
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on May 31, 2020 6:11:32 GMT -6
No they are not neumann capsules. Does he use the same size barrel and threading? Typical Chinese capsules don't plus they don't have the vent holes on the body... |
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Post by Guitar on May 31, 2020 6:26:51 GMT -6
After trying the Warm WA84 I'm a little skeptical about KM84 "clones."
I'd like to hear these though, any mic could be good, you never know.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 31, 2020 10:37:23 GMT -6
After trying the Warm WA84 I'm a little skeptical about KM84 "clones." I'd like to hear these though, any mic could be good, you never know. It all comes down to the capsule, as soon as somebody builds one of these clones or kits with the same size shank and threads be ready for disappointment! |
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Post by notneeson on May 31, 2020 12:27:42 GMT -6
After trying the Warm WA84 I'm a little skeptical about KM84 "clones." I'd like to hear these though, any mic could be good, you never know. Hey, have you gone into your experiences with that yet anywhere? I've seen you allude to it a few times but would love to get your more detailed thoughts. As I have said elsewhere, the Beesneez version deserves a listen. I have only used it on snare and banjo, moving fast with a paying client, but I was encouraged by the results. |
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Post by lpedrum on May 31, 2020 12:50:27 GMT -6
After trying the Warm WA84 I'm a little skeptical about KM84 "clones." I'd like to hear these though, any mic could be good, you never know. It all comes down to the capsule, as soon as somebody builds one of these clones or kits with the same size shank and threads be ready for disappointment! It seems crazier and crazier that Neumann won't reissue the 84--they'd be the talk of the town for months. Any mention online of a mic that comes close gets more attention than just about any other gear topic. I'd love an 84 but I'm not in a position (especially now) to spend the inflated dollars to buy one. IF someone does finally provide a kit with the correct threading etc. I'd be shocked if Neumann didn't clamp down on selling the capsules to all comers. If you hope to eventually build an exact 84 clone I might suggest you buy your capsule now. I'm sure someone has covered this, but is it possible to retrofit a current KM184 with the circuitry and transformer of that matching an 84? Or is the body different too? You can buy used KM184s on eBay right now for $550. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 31, 2020 13:25:31 GMT -6
It all comes down to the capsule, as soon as somebody builds one of these clones or kits with the same size shank and threads be ready for disappointment! It seems crazier and crazier that Neumann won't reissue the 84--they'd be the talk of the town for months. Any mention online of a mic that comes close gets more attention than just about any other gear topic. I'd love an 84 but I'm not in a position (especially now) to spend the inflated dollars to buy one. IF someone does finally provide a kit with the correct threading etc. I'd be shocked if Neumann didn't clamp down on selling the capsules to all comers. If you hope to eventually build an exact 84 clone I might suggest you buy your capsule now. I'm sure someone has covered this, but is it possible to retrofit a current KM184 with the circuitry and transformer of that matching an 84? Or is the body different too? You can buy used KM184s on eBay right now for $550. You have to understand clamping down on the sale of 84 capsules would be almost impossible. The 80 series were utility mics in Broadcast, SR, and recording around the world. There are so many floating around, many abused that requiring a dealer to provide a valid serial number for what Neumann considers a part would be insane! The last people Neumann or any other manufacturer for that matter wants to piss off is it’s dealers. If your Neumann you also don’t want to be in a situation where your requiring your dealers to have to add code to their software for a single part # to add a serial number that is to damn easy to screw up! A pull down of Freq. for wireless mics is all to often to easily screwed up! At this point after the 47fet and U67 reissue my hunch as to why we don’t see an 84 reissue is this: the 100 series and 184 are completely designed for automated manufacturing, cheap as hell to make and thus to damn profitable to screw things up by bring back the 84. If the 84 would require being hand built like the 47fet and U67 the price Neumann has calculated might just be to high to justify considering the number of 80 series still out there and the fact that you can still pretty much rebuild one today. What might change things? One of the Chinese builders supplying an affordable body that could be used with an 80 series capsule, a decent KK84 clone and transformer. While the engineers at Neumann would rather move on from the past, they don’t run the show. If the guys in the C suite see somebody else making a decent money on a clone they will want a piece of the action. They won’t make a move though as long as they know they can’t compete with a refurb of a used 84. |
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Post by Guitar on May 31, 2020 15:18:21 GMT -6
After trying the Warm WA84 I'm a little skeptical about KM84 "clones." I'd like to hear these though, any mic could be good, you never know. Hey, have you gone into your experiences with that yet anywhere? I've seen you allude to it a few times but would love to get your more detailed thoughts. As I have said elsewhere, the Beesneez version deserves a listen. I have only used it on snare and banjo, moving fast with a paying client, but I was encouraged by the results. Sure. It sounds good at first blush, but the longer I listened, the more I was hearing a muddy low end (they call this a feature) and slightly undefined midrange. Which is not what a KM is supposed to be about for me. it just wasn't close enough, even though it was sort of close. I think they use a 3U designed capsule, and a Cinemag transformer. Good parts, nice stuff inside of it. I'm just not sold on it as a "keeper." Probably not going to buy the 3U SDC's now either. The KM184 is a benchmark to me. So that means the KM84 is probably my favorite mic I've never used or owned. I know that sound pretty well. I figure if it's not dead nuts I might as well get something entirely different. The KM's are just too good for me to make excuses for. Microphones are so gosh darned specific when you really listen to them. I have an SE SE1A hopefully coming this week so that's another contender. My settled on pairs of now are KSM137 and Oktava MK 012 (modded). Always looking to find new keepers. There will be another KM184 someday but it's not urgent right now. My dream date is a pair of KM84 to put on drum overheads. I just really want to hear that. Acoustic guitar I'm getting less picky about. I have a ribbon mic that works great. And the Oktava does just fine. But the quest goes on. |
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Post by lpedrum on May 31, 2020 17:21:36 GMT -6
It seems crazier and crazier that Neumann won't reissue the 84--they'd be the talk of the town for months. Any mention online of a mic that comes close gets more attention than just about any other gear topic. I'd love an 84 but I'm not in a position (especially now) to spend the inflated dollars to buy one. IF someone does finally provide a kit with the correct threading etc. I'd be shocked if Neumann didn't clamp down on selling the capsules to all comers. If you hope to eventually build an exact 84 clone I might suggest you buy your capsule now. I'm sure someone has covered this, but is it possible to retrofit a current KM184 with the circuitry and transformer of that matching an 84? Or is the body different too? You can buy used KM184s on eBay right now for $550. You have to understand clamping down on the sale of 84 capsules would be almost impossible. The 80 series were utility mics in Broadcast, SR, and recording around the world. There are so many floating around, many abused that requiring a dealer to provide a valid serial number for what Neumann considers a part would be insane! The last people Neumann or any other manufacturer for that matter wants to piss off is it’s dealers. If your Neumann you also don’t want to be in a situation where your requiring your dealers to have to add code to their software for a single part # to add a serial number that is to damn easy to screw up! A pull down of Freq. for wireless mics is all to often to easily screwed up! At this point after the 47fet and U67 reissue my hunch as to why we don’t see an 84 reissue is this: the 100 series and 184 are completely designed for automated manufacturing, cheap as hell to make and thus to damn profitable to screw things up by bring back the 84. If the 84 would require being hand built like the 47fet and U67 the price Neumann has calculated might just be to high to justify considering the number of 80 series still out there and the fact that you can still pretty much rebuild one today. What might change things? One of the Chinese builders supplying an affordable body that could be used with an 80 series capsule, a decent KK84 clone and transformer. While the engineers at Neumann would rather move on from the past, they don’t run the show. If the guys in the C suite see somebody else making a decent money on a clone they will want a piece of the action. They won’t make a move though as long as they know they can’t compete with a refurb of a used 84. You make a lot of good points. I still think Neumann is missing the boat on this. They have the name, knowledge, and parts to produce the most loved SDC of all time and don't seem to understand value of that. They should look to Boss as an example--they finally bit the bullet and reproduced long discontinued pedals that were bringing in $$$ on the used market with the WAZA series. |
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Post by sirthought on Jun 6, 2020 3:06:49 GMT -6
You make a lot of good points. I still think Neumann is missing the boat on this. They have the name, knowledge, and parts to produce the most loved SDC of all time and don't seem to understand value of that. They should look to Boss as an example--they finally bit the bullet and reproduced long discontinued pedals that were bringing in $$$ on the used market with the WAZA series. Sure, but a Waza pedal isn't costing what a Neumann mic would cost. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 6, 2020 5:32:48 GMT -6
You have to understand clamping down on the sale of 84 capsules would be almost impossible. The 80 series were utility mics in Broadcast, SR, and recording around the world. There are so many floating around, many abused that requiring a dealer to provide a valid serial number for what Neumann considers a part would be insane! The last people Neumann or any other manufacturer for that matter wants to piss off is it’s dealers. If your Neumann you also don’t want to be in a situation where your requiring your dealers to have to add code to their software for a single part # to add a serial number that is to damn easy to screw up! A pull down of Freq. for wireless mics is all to often to easily screwed up! At this point after the 47fet and U67 reissue my hunch as to why we don’t see an 84 reissue is this: the 100 series and 184 are completely designed for automated manufacturing, cheap as hell to make and thus to damn profitable to screw things up by bring back the 84. If the 84 would require being hand built like the 47fet and U67 the price Neumann has calculated might just be to high to justify considering the number of 80 series still out there and the fact that you can still pretty much rebuild one today. What might change things? One of the Chinese builders supplying an affordable body that could be used with an 80 series capsule, a decent KK84 clone and transformer. While the engineers at Neumann would rather move on from the past, they don’t run the show. If the guys in the C suite see somebody else making a decent money on a clone they will want a piece of the action. They won’t make a move though as long as they know they can’t compete with a refurb of a used 84. You make a lot of good points. I still think Neumann is missing the boat on this. They have the name, knowledge, and parts to produce the most loved SDC of all time and don't seem to understand value of that. They should look to Boss as an example--they finally bit the bullet and reproduced long discontinued pedals that were bringing in $$$ on the used market with the WAZA series.
I think the point is that Neumann always was a company that looked forward - inventing new tools. Besides, we learned in all the other SDC threads that the Soyuz SDC sounds very similar to the KM84. Why not buying a Soyuz to have a good time...?
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Post by lpedrum on Jun 6, 2020 15:29:37 GMT -6
You make a lot of good points. I still think Neumann is missing the boat on this. They have the name, knowledge, and parts to produce the most loved SDC of all time and don't seem to understand value of that. They should look to Boss as an example--they finally bit the bullet and reproduced long discontinued pedals that were bringing in $$$ on the used market with the WAZA series.
I think the point is that Neumann always was a company that looked forward - inventing new tools. Besides, we learned in all the other SDC threads that the Soyuz SDC sounds very similar to the KM84. Why not buying a Soyuz to have a good time...?
I've never owned a KM84 but I've used them often in the studio. People that own them claim there simply isn't a substitute unless you're talking about a Schoeps which is really a different animal. Sure, there are a lot of nice SDCs out there, but none with the reverence or value of a KM84. I don't see any reason why a company can't be forward thinking and still embrace and celebrate their classic products. Fender does it. Zildjian does it. Shure does it. And my reason for bringing up the Boss Waza pedals is that even Roland does it - and they're as stubbornly forward thinking as any company out there. |
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