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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 9, 2020 14:38:03 GMT -6
I know it's a lot of money, but after a few weeks with the new Mac Pro I have no regrets or buyers remorse. The computer and my interface get more use than anything else in my studio so I would sell the gear I sold all over again to buy it. I love being able to just mix as I go if I want to without having to delete or inactivate any plugins when I am tracking. I know it doesn't do anything to impact sound or quality of recordings, but it is just a pleasure to use and not think about overloading my CPU and having to freeze or inactivate tracks when I am working on things. My quad core i7 mini served me well, but the Mac Pro is a whole other universe. And I would expect no less for that kind of money! Seriously though, that's very cool. And I agree that there is peace of mind having a computer be invisible, so to speak. It's just there, doing it's job, and you don't even think about it. That's what I want. I get so frustrated firing up the studio only to have that fan start revving up. Takes the wind out of my sails. A Mac Pro would be some serious overkill for me. I think I'd end up just as well with a new iMac for half the price. For my needs, anyways. Now, if I can hold on for long enough, and hope that Apple comes through... Would it be though? I've had my mac pro since 2011 and it's a 2007/08 model and STILL works. Im running PT 2019 something and HDX with it and it STILL works. So while its a big up front cost, you'll get 10 years or more out of it especially if you just keep upgrading it as you go/need. $7000/10 years is 700 bucks a year. That's really not that bad all things considered... That said, I just built a brand new PC for Pyramix and it flys. I wasn't a fan of win10 for a long time but have been liking it more and more. But I still want a new mac for Protools. I just like using PT on a Mac more. Considering I'd have to get an expansion chassis and such for a mini it adds up to half the cost of a Pro anyways. That and I don't think the fan is any quieter on the new mini. Probably just buck up and get one myself. Buy once, cry once. Or wait for there to be a refurb market for them perhaps.
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Post by mulmany on Jun 9, 2020 20:08:41 GMT -6
The fan on my 2012 mini is driving me crazy. It’s pretty much on full throttle all the time. Makes it impossible to track anything in the same room. I keep reading that Apple is planning to drop a new iMac soon. Possibly an announcement coming 6/22. I’m going to try and hold out till then. I’m all in for an updated iMac. One thing I did was to file down the air intake on the bottom cover. Just remove a bit of the lip were the wifi antenna is. It made a huge difference in mine.
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 9, 2020 21:40:58 GMT -6
Ok, can I get you guys to recommend some possibilities to me.
Currently running a 2010 iMac. Mostly audio but am doing my taxes, occasionally word documents, printing stuff etc. Backup disc is FireWire. Ho ho ho. That’s where drum and keyboard libraries currently live as well as backup photos etc.
Connected via USB are keyboard - really need the numerical bit to take advantage of shortcuts in Logic, mouse - Bluetooth one died, ilok, printer. CD used to play music, I’m guessing most of the programs I have are too outdated even if the machines now have CD slots which I understand they don’t.
so looking for a machine to run Logic with the new Antelope ad/da, with some USB connectivity for ilok, keyboard etc. The Antelope will run USB or thunderbolt. Will likely want to do some word processing, email etc. But will be mostly offline and used for audio.
I do use boxed drums and keys, but pretty low track counts usually.
probably want to stay in the Mac biosphere.
The current iMac is doing some rather funky things that I can’t track down, so want to take the plunge soon. Really want to make sure I don’t lose all my photos. The recorded stuff? Yeah, I guess that too.
Also, beyond the base machine I guess I’m in the market for a new backup drive? And connectivity?
Thanks for indulging me.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by timcampbell on Jun 10, 2020 3:18:59 GMT -6
So you guys are unanimous Mac fans. A pc seems more bang for the buck and I hate mac's operating system.I was hoping a powerful laptop would motivate me to start doing more recording. I can agree with the fragility issues but having something I can use on the go would suit my inspiration better right now.
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Post by nomatic on Jun 10, 2020 6:14:24 GMT -6
John, don't go i5. Whatever spec tests show, I had nothing but issues with all the i5's I had, none of them with i7's. That's just the way it is, why, I don't really know. Nomadic, 6 core i7 should be plenty, I have a 4 core iMac i7, 32 GB and do OK. How much did yours cost?a 1299 plus i put in 32 gigs of ram myself for cheap
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Post by Guitar on Jun 10, 2020 7:28:59 GMT -6
So you guys are unanimous Mac fans. A pc seems more bang for the buck and I hate mac's operating system.I was hoping a powerful laptop would motivate me to start doing more recording. I can agree with the fragility issues but having something I can use on the go would suit my inspiration better right now. I don't know if this works for everyone, but getting into Sound Devices and Zoom portable recording gear has been a game changer for me. Hauling the PC tower, I have one for this purpose, has only been done once, and it was a semi-permanent install. There was so much stuff that had to be moved that it made me question my sanity. Laptop seems like a good middle ground between these two extremes. Or a windows NUC or imac (screen/computer combo). I am 100% a PC Person. It's all about that value, customization, DIY, self repair, and so on. If you want a strong Mac, you need a lot of cash. That's the most simple way I can see it. More power to people with that cash but it doesn't add up for me.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 10, 2020 8:00:14 GMT -6
See, I work on PC's at my job, and often have to call IT because somethings not working. I watch them get into the guts of programming and .exe's and command prompts. Mac's just work. I did build a Hackintosh once, but it left me uneasy anytime something didn't work. It was a learning experience and I learned that I don't want that headache again. I just don't know enough about computer programming to go with a PC. And I know this is completely psychological, but I just feel more inspired working on a Mac. I don't know why that is.
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Post by stratboy on Jun 10, 2020 8:18:15 GMT -6
See, I work on PC's at my job, and often have to call IT because somethings not working. I watch them get into the guts of programming and .exe's and command prompts. Mac's just work. I did build a Hackintosh once, but it left me uneasy anytime something didn't work. It was a learning experience and I learned that I don't want that headache again. I just don't know enough about computer programming to go with a PC. And I know this is completely psychological, but I just feel more inspired working on a Mac. I don't know why that is. At the time I abandoned Windows 10, I knew enough about all the Microsoft OS to be an effective SysAdmin for my music and home computers and the networks that connected them. Since then, my knowledge has atrophied because I never have to fix anything. My all Mac systems just work. For years. And years. Well worth the painful upfront costs, IMO, to get trouble-free operation for ten years. I only buy used to keep the price down.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 10, 2020 11:22:03 GMT -6
See, I work on PC's at my job, and often have to call IT because somethings not working. I watch them get into the guts of programming and .exe's and command prompts. Mac's just work. I did build a Hackintosh once, but it left me uneasy anytime something didn't work. It was a learning experience and I learned that I don't want that headache again. I just don't know enough about computer programming to go with a PC. And I know this is completely psychological, but I just feel more inspired working on a Mac. I don't know why that is. At the time I abandoned Windows 10, I knew enough about all the Microsoft OS to be an effective SysAdmin for my music and home computers and the networks that connected them. Since then, my knowledge has atrophied because I never have to fix anything. My all Mac systems just work. For years. And years. Well worth the painful upfront costs, IMO, to get trouble-free operation for ten years. I only buy used to keep the price down. I'm with you on buying used. I've been looking, but man, used prices on recent Mac's are steep. I'd get a better deal on going refurb or using my edu discount.
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Post by stratboy on Jun 10, 2020 12:22:02 GMT -6
Yes they are. When I’m in the market, I look on Macofalltrades, OWC and microcenter. I’ve had good experiences with each of them.
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Post by ericn on Jun 11, 2020 15:57:09 GMT -6
Yes they are. When I’m in the market, I look on Macofalltrades, OWC and microcenter. I’ve had good experiences with each of them. It seams like people have been buying all the used Macs from the trusted sellers as of late. I might wait a bit, I’m betting we will see a number of places with some decent machines biting the dust and some good liquidation deals.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 22, 2020 18:32:42 GMT -6
Well, Apple had their conference thing today. Doesn’t look like they’re dropping a new computer soon. They announced a switch to their in-house ARM processor, and will release a redesigned iMac with their processor late this year or early next. Problem is, all the software developers will need to update their software to run on the new processor architecture. Who knows how long that could take? And I don’t want to be an early adopter and deal with all the bugs.
I guess it’s a Mini for me.
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2020 18:39:48 GMT -6
Well, Apple had their conference thing today. Doesn’t look like they’re dropping a new computer soon. They announced a switch to their in-house ARM processor, and will release a redesigned iMac with their processor late this year or early next. Problem is, all the software developers will need to update their software to run on the new processor architecture. Who knows how long that could take? And I don’t want to be an early adopter and deal with all the bugs. I guess it’s a Mini for me. So so in other words 3 years left of intel support, ugh! So long term bye bye boot camp & Hackintosh! I knew this was coming, hoped it would be later and very glad I didn’t bite on a newer MBP ! I would be very pissed if I bought a new Mac Pro! Apple has a history of short support for 2 types of CPU’s!
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Post by popmann on Jun 22, 2020 19:28:00 GMT -6
It's funny how everyone takes this differently...while I don't technically see this as inherently any kind of downgrade or stumbling block--it is also the end of OSX. That's a bigger deal...you understand they didn't run out of NUMBERS for point releases, right? OS11. Guaranteed to be built for ARM ground up, intel emulated code...probably built for full multitouch display (finally)...which might mean no mouse.
Anyway--I think if you're a musician...who makes music with your home computer, you should take a chill pill and wait and see--because fuck the DSP of the chip, your CPU is sitting idle right now because the bottleneck is largely NOT "the CPU" in a music production...so, while the chip might not clock as high or do as many terraflops of floating point crunching, it IS possible that the new platform will enable that THunderbolt Replacement (because that's intel tech) interface to run full time at 16samples into said ARM chip's cache...I mean--like Apple always does, you'll be replacing your $2k Thunderbolt interface with another $3k "Apple Direct hammer of the gods" interface...but, it might mean that Logic11 on Big Sur has converter level latency full time on any input--no matter what's going on in the project. Have faith, sheeple. And start saving to replace everything currently connected to your computer like you did a few years ago.
And for a professional in need of an audio workstation...I honestly can't see why you're CURRENTLY using an Apple. Unless you're still using an Avid HD or HDX system in a decade old machine. In which case, this should make it fairly clear. If you can justify a $10k MacPro to house the HDX cards, you'll get another 5 years probably...cool...but, even then--that's a punt. Still you need a plan to move to Windows or I suppose Linux if you're a glutton...
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jun 22, 2020 19:59:57 GMT -6
Anyway--I think if you're a musician...who makes music with your home computer, you should take a chill pill and wait and see--because fuck the DSP of the chip, your CPU is sitting idle right now because the bottleneck is largely NOT "the CPU" in a music production...so, while the chip might not clock as high or do as many terraflops of floating point crunching, it IS possible that the new platform will enable that THunderbolt Replacement (because that's intel tech) interface to run full time at 16samples into said ARM chip's cache...I mean--like Apple always does, you'll be replacing your $2k Thunderbolt interface with another $3k "Apple Direct hammer of the gods" interface...but, it might mean that Logic11 on Big Sur has converter level latency full time on any input--no matter what's going on in the project. Have faith, sheeple. And start saving to replace everything currently connected to your computer like you did a few years ago. And for a professional in need of an audio workstation...I honestly can't see why you're CURRENTLY using an Apple. Unless you're still using an Avid HD or HDX system in a decade old machine. In which case, this should make it fairly clear. If you can justify a $10k MacPro to house the HDX cards, you'll get another 5 years probably...cool...but, even then--that's a punt. Still you need a plan to move to Windows or I suppose Linux if you're a glutton... I highly doubt that apple is concerned about how audio interfaces perform at all. hah I would think Video performance is still high priority for them though....... For years Apple has been limiting their Intel processor performance on all but their iMac range so i guess this move is more aimed at overall control of the manufacturing process and battery life. Apple are obviously very good at what they do with their current A series chips.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 22, 2020 20:48:52 GMT -6
They are going to continue supporting the current new Mac Pros for a long, long time. So this is not Apple abolishing all Intel instruction sets. With the kind of money companies (and individuals) are dropping on the nMPs, Apple is not going to leave those professional buyers high and dry. There are a lot of film and animation companies buying those things, and while Apple can be tone-deaf at times, they've been listening to Hollywood and professional film houses for the past several years.
Now, at some point, the FCPX team will be able to code more efficiently on the ARM chips and squeeze more processing out of them, so eventually Final Cut and probably Logic will perform better on the ARM chips, but that day is probably still a little ways off.
And throw Adobe into the mix on this, and holy shit, Apple's going to have to keep the X86 architecture going for a good while. Adobe doesn't give a shit about anybody else's timeline or release schedule.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 22, 2020 21:51:48 GMT -6
OK, doing a little more catch-up on all the news of the day re: WWDC, and there are two competing narratives I'm seeing, characterized by two different statements from Apple: - "Apple will continue to support and release new versions of macOS for Intel-based Macs for years to come, and has exciting new Intel-based Macs in development."
I think they're being honest about that. If they really do still have new Intel-based Macs in development, then there really shouldn't be any cause for alarm in terms of long term support for current Mac Pros or any other Macs we studio folks might purchase. - Adobe already has Photoshop and Lightroom working natively on the new chips.
This is the one that is somewhat more concerning. Once Adobe gets Premiere and After Effects running natively on the ARM chips, they won't have as much of an incentive to develop new features for an X86 version of Creative Cloud apps on the Mac platform. While that doesn't on the surface seem to affect us in audio-land, it's a significant economic driver in the software business. Now, the claims of being able to unify iOS and macOS versions of software applications on the ARM chips is really compelling, and we may see quite a bit of innovation on this front. I just wonder what applications we're going to lose along the way, because there will be some, I'm sure.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 23, 2020 4:54:52 GMT -6
It seems to me peeps have very different WIN MAC experiences for recording, typically the Mac just works and I never seen to hear the end of all the Win tweaks they do?
Maybe that’s not accurate or fair? I switched to Mac about 7 years ago and other than upgrading ram and installing ssd and doing OS upgrades, running logic, really no problems.
Cost vs utility is a fair argument but ease of use and consistency of operations are big for me. I just want my system to perform consistently: no muss, no fuss. Would be hard pressed to switch to Win.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 23, 2020 5:04:13 GMT -6
It seems to me peeps have very different WIN MAC experiences for recording, typically the Mac just works and I never seen to hear the end of all the Win tweaks they do? Maybe that’s not accurate or fair? I switched to Mac about 7 years ago and other than upgrading ram and installing ssd and doing OS upgrades, running logic, really no problems. Cost vs utility is a fair argument but ease of use and consistency of operations are big for me. I just want my system to perform consistently: no muss, no fuss. Would be hard pressed to switch to Win. I think I'm with you. I've been trying to consider building my own PC because I know that I'll get a smoking machine for way less than a comparable Apple counterpart. It's just the thought of dealing with all of the Windows OS annoyances that I've dealt with over the years on my work machines makes me feel very uninspired to do so.
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Post by javamad on Jun 23, 2020 7:42:24 GMT -6
I was planning to get a 2018 Mini for my studio but was a bit wary of thermals and poor graphics.
The new Apple silicon presentation plus the fact that the developer transition kit is a Mini ... makes me think we’ll see a non-Intel Mini in October ...
They showed Logic as already ported over and thats my DAW ... so I might wait and see.
Definitely getting an Intel Mac now seems like you’d need to accept that in 2-3 years you’d need to upgrade again. For me the magic number is 4 years to get a top spec Mac and get the real benefits. At the moment I have a mid-2012 MBP which works fine on mostly audio projects but I have discovered its limits in lockdown with Spitfire BBC SO composition (I had to do something! :-) )
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 23, 2020 8:02:11 GMT -6
I was planning to get a 2018 Mini for my studio but was a bit wary of thermals and poor graphics. The new Apple silicon presentation plus the fact that the developer transition kit is a Mini ... makes me think we’ll see a non-Intel Mini in October ... They showed Logic as already ported over and thats my DAW ... so I might wait and see. Definitely getting an Intel Mac now seems like you’d need to accept that in 2-3 years you’d need to upgrade again. For me the magic number is 4 years to get a top spec Mac and get the real benefits. At the moment I have a mid-2012 MBP which works fine on mostly audio projects but I have discovered its limits in lockdown with Spitfire BBC SO composition (I had to do something! :-) ) From what I'm reading, the general consensus is that the first new ARM machines later this year or early next are going to be a laptop and a redesigned iMac. I do think that Intel support is going to last for a long time. Even just yesterday, Apple said they still have Intel based machines in the works yet to be released.
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Post by ericn on Jun 23, 2020 8:02:40 GMT -6
They are going to continue supporting the current new Mac Pros for a long, long time. So this is not Apple abolishing all Intel instruction sets. With the kind of money companies (and individuals) are dropping on the nMPs, Apple is not going to leave those professional buyers high and dry. There are a lot of film and animation companies buying those things, and while Apple can be tone-deaf at times, they've been listening to Hollywood and professional film houses for the past several years. Now, at some point, the FCPX team will be able to code more efficiently on the ARM chips and squeeze more processing out of them, so eventually Final Cut and probably Logic will perform better on the ARM chips, but that day is probably still a little ways off. And throw Adobe into the mix on this, and holy shit, Apple's going to have to keep the X86 architecture going for a good while. Adobe doesn't give a shit about anybody else's timeline or release schedule. Mark, I have heard that song before, the jump 2 G3, then Intel. Apple always seams to realize that writing for and supporting 2 different kinds of CPU is time consuming, expensive and bulky after about the 3rd OS update and then starts to phase out the old CPU support. Abandoning FW will only add to this coming up with their own interface is a PITA and then getting the resellers and customer to buy in is also a major issue.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 23, 2020 8:04:17 GMT -6
I was planning to get a 2018 Mini for my studio but was a bit wary of thermals and poor graphics. The new Apple silicon presentation plus the fact that the developer transition kit is a Mini ... makes me think we’ll see a non-Intel Mini in October ... They showed Logic as already ported over and thats my DAW ... so I might wait and see. Definitely getting an Intel Mac now seems like you’d need to accept that in 2-3 years you’d need to upgrade again. For me the magic number is 4 years to get a top spec Mac and get the real benefits. At the moment I have a mid-2012 MBP which works fine on mostly audio projects but I have discovered its limits in lockdown with Spitfire BBC SO composition (I had to do something! :-) ) My bet is that the Apple Silicon A-chips run considerably cooler than Intel, and with better graphics performance, making the Mini even better in the long run. And I'm sure you're right about the Mini being the first machine to use the new chips, with that being the developer transition kit. I do wonder how long it'll take for the iMac to get the new chips. And I would imagine the Mac Pro would be the last machine to be ported over. So I think anyone would be fine to buy a Mac Pro now, as it's hard to imagine Apple no longer supporting that machine for a long time. But I guess you never know. I've been planning on a machine upgrade for awhile, but now I'm wondering if I should try to stretch my original cheesgrater for another year. Ugh. If I do that, I have to get a new graphics card. I already can't run the latest version of FCPX, and my current card isn't even Metal-capable.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 23, 2020 8:07:46 GMT -6
But I need a new computer yesterday. I'm torn between limping it out with my current machine and taking a risk with an ARM based iMac this fall or early next year, or just getting a current Mac Mini and run with that for a few years until things are fully fleshed out with the new processor and software compatibility.
There were rumors of a new Intel based iMac that was supposed to be announced yesterday, which could still happen. But then, it's the question of whether or not I want to plop down thousands of dollars on end-of-life tech in a computer that I plan on using for 8-10 years.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 23, 2020 8:12:51 GMT -6
They are going to continue supporting the current new Mac Pros for a long, long time. So this is not Apple abolishing all Intel instruction sets. With the kind of money companies (and individuals) are dropping on the nMPs, Apple is not going to leave those professional buyers high and dry. There are a lot of film and animation companies buying those things, and while Apple can be tone-deaf at times, they've been listening to Hollywood and professional film houses for the past several years. Now, at some point, the FCPX team will be able to code more efficiently on the ARM chips and squeeze more processing out of them, so eventually Final Cut and probably Logic will perform better on the ARM chips, but that day is probably still a little ways off. And throw Adobe into the mix on this, and holy shit, Apple's going to have to keep the X86 architecture going for a good while. Adobe doesn't give a shit about anybody else's timeline or release schedule. Mark, I have heard that song before, the jump 2 G3, then Intel. Apple always seams to realize that writing for and supporting 2 different kinds of CPU is time consuming, expensive and bulky after about the 3rd OS update and then starts to phase out the old CPU support. Abandoning FW will only add to this coming up with their own interface is a PITA and then getting the resellers and customer to buy in is also a major issue. That's for sure a fair observation, Eric. I'm mostly thinking about: - How recent the new Mac Pro is. They're really just now catching up with all the original orders.
- The film industry, which is where the "creative money" is. Depending on how many units have been sold, they need to be really careful to continue supporting that market. FCPX is definitely part of Apple's growth strategy in the creative market. Some of those production houses have quite recently purchased $15k-$30k machines! If Apple wants to avoid another shitstorm meltdown with video content creators, they're going to have to be super careful to continue supporting that market and that machine.
But yes, your point is well said. It gives me serious pause about buying a new machine right now.
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