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Post by Guitar on May 22, 2020 13:11:53 GMT -6
DIY PC is where it's at if value is your thing. I've been into it for almost 20 years primarily for price vs performance. Laptop is not too smart IMO if you're looking for something long term. They wear out, sometimes break. That's a lot of money to sink into a "disposable" product.
Just my experience. I am not preaching from a high horse, just offering my perspective.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 22, 2020 13:15:29 GMT -6
Ive really noticed it when trying to track with Luna. Strangely, if I have anything open in the background it has major freezing. Close everything and it runs well. Maybe it’s just Luna...but I know an 8 year old computer is really pushing it. I hate the advantage to the iMac? I’m gonna try some thermal paste, but I have my doubts. Also going to upgrade to Mojave to see if performance improves. I keep going back and forth between the mini and the iMac. I have one of those LG ultrawide screens, which isn’t that great to run on a mini without a graphics card. Also, I have a one room studio space, so fan noise is a major concern. My 2012 fan is running pretty much non-stop. I don’t know anything about the thermal paste - what’s the idea and process?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 22, 2020 13:17:32 GMT -6
I assume you are talking about the iMac in regards to better video, cooling and throttling? I also don't want to pay $4K for a computer. I don't even want to pay $3K. Ugh. I'm just not a dude who gets excited about spending big money on computers. I've got buddies who are super into it, though. I'm just not that guy. no Certified Refurbished iMacs up on the Apple site right now, but keep your eyes open. They do have certified refurbished 16” MacBook Pros for $2039. Those are really good machines, and fast - with good graphics. Would easily run multiple external 4k monitors. I probably have an old idea of using laptops as main computers, but I always think of that not being an ideal solution.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 22, 2020 13:19:52 GMT -6
I assume you are talking about the iMac in regards to better video, cooling and throttling? I also don't want to pay $4K for a computer. I don't even want to pay $3K. Ugh. I'm just not a dude who gets excited about spending big money on computers. I've got buddies who are super into it, though. I'm just not that guy. Oh, and for the Mini they will (supposedly) run 2 monitors @ 4k simultaneously OR 1 at 5k and 1@ 4k simultaneously. Should run your LG monitor just fine without issue. If you’re not doing video, it’s a nice little machine. $1100. Or up the processor to i7 for $200 more. Add your own aftermarket RAM. I was going to ask this - do I REALLY need to spring for the i7? As someone pointed out, it doesn’t score much higher on geek bench. It could be the difference in talking my wife I to it and out of it lol.
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Post by Guitar on May 22, 2020 13:20:57 GMT -6
You would apply some paste to the top of your CPU. Then you would mount the heat sink and cooling fan. This would provide better thermal coupling, better cooling for your CPU, hopefully resulting in lower operating temperatures. That is, if there's not some paste on there already.
Not sure how Macs work. But my Intel CPU throttles at 100 degrees Celcius in Windows. I should probably buy a better cooler. This throttling temperature is called "TJmax" and you can use various utility apps to keep an eye on your CPU temperatures. There's a nice one I like on windows called Core Temp.
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Post by indiehouse on May 22, 2020 13:27:18 GMT -6
DIY PC is where it's at if value is your thing. I've been into it for almost 20 years primarily for price vs performance. Laptop is not too smart IMO if you're looking for something long term. They wear out, sometimes break. That's a lot of money to sink into a "disposable" product. Just my experience. I am not preaching from a high horse, just offering my perspective. I know, I know. I just don't like the Windows ecosystem. I have Windows machines at work, and they are a drag to work with. It could just be that I'm getting older and more set in my ways.
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Post by Guitar on May 22, 2020 13:45:52 GMT -6
DIY PC is where it's at if value is your thing. I've been into it for almost 20 years primarily for price vs performance. Laptop is not too smart IMO if you're looking for something long term. They wear out, sometimes break. That's a lot of money to sink into a "disposable" product. Just my experience. I am not preaching from a high horse, just offering my perspective. I know, I know. I just don't like the Windows ecosystem. I have Windows machines at work, and they are a drag to work with. It could just be that I'm getting older and more set in my ways. Sure, fair enough. Some people change horses, some people are happy where they are, that's understandable. I personally use an Apple phone and a Windows PC, so I have a foot in both places, a little bit anyway. Enough to understand that they are not the same thing.
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Post by guitfiddler on May 22, 2020 14:02:28 GMT -6
AppleOSX 👍🏻 Windows 👎🏻
I’ve used both for years and IME of being a PC system builder and an Apple User, I had more issues with Windows operating systems. The hardware on my PC outperformed the Apple computer, but the OSX just worked and I was doing music instead of fixing software conflicts or incompatibility issues because of a Windows issue. My suggestion is turn off automatic updates on every machine whether it be Mac or PC. I would hope to imagine it’s better now, but I totally quit PC back after Windows 8 came out, and I’m still all Apple products. I don’t care for Apple’s choice of hardware, but the OSX works for me.
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Post by Guitar on May 22, 2020 14:16:03 GMT -6
One really cool thing about Apple computers that I think I just learned is the Core Audio drivers are really good at round trip latency.
I'm sure it varies a little bit, but a lot of the latency numbers on Mac can be better than the Windows numbers, using the same audio interface, assuming it works with both types of computers.
If this is true, then Mac is a big advantage for latency performance. Depending on the interface, of course. Some Windows drivers perform really well (RME, Presonus, etc).
And then the option to use Logic at all. Or start out on Garage Band.
I can see some of the advantages.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 22, 2020 16:10:22 GMT -6
Oh, and for the Mini they will (supposedly) run 2 monitors @ 4k simultaneously OR 1 at 5k and 1@ 4k simultaneously. Should run your LG monitor just fine without issue. If you’re not doing video, it’s a nice little machine. $1100. Or up the processor to i7 for $200 more. Add your own aftermarket RAM. I was going to ask this - do I REALLY need to spring for the i7? As someone pointed out, it doesn’t score much higher on geek bench. It could be the difference in talking my wife I to it and out of it lol. It's a good question, John, without a totally satisfactory answer. In the i5 vs. i7 debate, there are potentially pros and cons either way. For most things in a DAW setup, an i5 will be fine: hell, my wife edits video most days of the week with her (Apple certified reconditioned) 2017 i5 iMac and it doesn't break a sweat. And an i5 generally puts out less heat than an i7, so theoretically a lower fan speed is needed to keep it cool, and maybe even less throttling. I'm not entirely sure how that all stacks up in the real world, though. On the other hand, I know you like Gold3, and Acustica recommends at least an i7--if not an i9--for all their plugins. One of the bigger bonuses of the Mac Mini over the iMac (not the iMac Pro) is that the Mac Mini has two Thunderbolt 3 busses. So you can have your Apollo on one Thunderbolt bus and a drive array on the other. To get two TB3 busses in iMac-land, you have to go to an iMac Pro. (The rejoinder of course being that it's unlikely one would run out of bandwidth on a TB3 bus with an audio interface and audio tracks.) I feel a little like what Frodo accuses Gildor of in Fellowship of the Ring: "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will answer both no and yes."
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Post by nudwig on May 22, 2020 18:33:51 GMT -6
Any of you computer guys really think it's worth the time and effort to try new thermal paste? I did it with my 2015 MBP about 6 months ago. Seemed to help keep the temp cooler, at least enough to minimize throttling and let me finish the session I was doing from home.
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Post by nomatic on May 23, 2020 6:27:44 GMT -6
So Far my new Mini is killer with the 6 core I7 and 32 Gigs of ram (aftermarket) Not a whole lot of coin either .....
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Post by indiehouse on May 23, 2020 7:46:27 GMT -6
So Far my new Mini is killer with the 6 core I7 and 32 Gigs of ram (aftermarket) Not a whole lot of coin either ..... Are you pushing it with intensive plugs? Fan noise is my biggest concern here. Also, I'd like to be able to run some VI's. I have some libraries (Spitfire, Komplete, etc) that I'd like to run, as well as some that I don't own yet because I know that I can't run them yet, U-He Diva, IK Tapes, etc.
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Post by nudwig on May 23, 2020 15:27:31 GMT -6
This thread got me thinking about thermal issues again so last night I opened up my laptop (the same one I did the thermal paste on 6 months ago) and blew all the dust out again. Running much smoother today under a heavy session. I always forget how much dust heats up computers.
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Post by nomatic on May 26, 2020 9:54:11 GMT -6
So Far my new Mini is killer with the 6 core I7 and 32 Gigs of ram (aftermarket) Not a whole lot of coin either ..... Are you pushing it with intensive plugs? Fan noise is my biggest concern here. Also, I'd like to be able to run some VI's. I have some libraries (Spitfire, Komplete, etc) that I'd like to run, as well as some that I don't own yet because I know that I can't run them yet, U-He Diva, IK Tapes, etc. I'll have to test under serious load and will report back.....
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Post by indiehouse on May 26, 2020 10:00:23 GMT -6
This thread got me thinking about thermal issues again so last night I opened up my laptop (the same one I did the thermal paste on 6 months ago) and blew all the dust out again. Running much smoother today under a heavy session. I always forget how much dust heats up computers. I did this last night. Took it all apart down to the CPU, cleaned and added new thermal paste. Blew the dust out of everything. Haven't stress tested, but at least it powered back on!
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Post by nudwig on May 26, 2020 10:25:50 GMT -6
That was also my greatest relief after I did the thermal paste. Hopefully you've gained performance as well.
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Post by indiehouse on May 27, 2020 6:50:28 GMT -6
Well, replaced thermal paste, blew the dust out, updated to OS 10.14 and PT2020. I haven’t noticed any performance improvement. Session still taxes my CPU, fam ramps up. Soothe in oversampling does a number on it.
Damn man. Might be time to retire the ol’ girl. Now, it’s back to Mac Mini vs iMac.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 27, 2020 7:00:29 GMT -6
I’m getting paralyzed by the thought of it. I can tell I’m getting old, though. Finally cut the cable cord and changing emails has been a biatch.
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Post by indiehouse on May 27, 2020 12:35:54 GMT -6
I’m getting paralyzed by the thought of it. I can tell I’m getting old, though. Finally cut the cable cord and changing emails has been a biatch. Ha! Cutting the cable was easier than I thought. Been without cable for years now and don't miss a thing. Might see if I can hold out a bit longer by freezing tracks. PIA. But I'm reading that a new iMac might be on it's way this year. And buying used doesn't seem to save much money. Apple stuff just doesn't depreciate quickly.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 9, 2020 9:44:34 GMT -6
The fan on my 2012 mini is driving me crazy. It’s pretty much on full throttle all the time. Makes it impossible to track anything in the same room. I keep reading that Apple is planning to drop a new iMac soon. Possibly an announcement coming 6/22. I’m going to try and hold out till then. I’m all in for an updated iMac.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 9, 2020 10:18:15 GMT -6
John, don't go i5. Whatever spec tests show, I had nothing but issues with all the i5's I had, none of them with i7's. That's just the way it is, why, I don't really know.
Nomadic, 6 core i7 should be plenty, I have a 4 core iMac i7, 32 GB and do OK. How much did yours cost?
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Post by mikec on Jun 9, 2020 10:47:24 GMT -6
I know it's a lot of money, but after a few weeks with the new Mac Pro I have no regrets or buyers remorse. The computer and my interface get more use than anything else in my studio so I would sell the gear I sold all over again to buy it. I love being able to just mix as I go if I want to without having to delete or inactivate any plugins when I am tracking. I know it doesn't do anything to impact sound or quality of recordings, but it is just a pleasure to use and not think about overloading my CPU and having to freeze or inactivate tracks when I am working on things. My quad core i7 mini served me well, but the Mac Pro is a whole other universe.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 9, 2020 12:44:52 GMT -6
I know it's a lot of money, but after a few weeks with the new Mac Pro I have no regrets or buyers remorse. The computer and my interface get more use than anything else in my studio so I would sell the gear I sold all over again to buy it. I love being able to just mix as I go if I want to without having to delete or inactivate any plugins when I am tracking. I know it doesn't do anything to impact sound or quality of recordings, but it is just a pleasure to use and not think about overloading my CPU and having to freeze or inactivate tracks when I am working on things. My quad core i7 mini served me well, but the Mac Pro is a whole other universe. And I would expect no less for that kind of money! Seriously though, that's very cool. And I agree that there is peace of mind having a computer be invisible, so to speak. It's just there, doing it's job, and you don't even think about it. That's what I want. I get so frustrated firing up the studio only to have that fan start revving up. Takes the wind out of my sails. A Mac Pro would be some serious overkill for me. I think I'd end up just as well with a new iMac for half the price. For my needs, anyways. Now, if I can hold on for long enough, and hope that Apple comes through...
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Post by mikec on Jun 9, 2020 14:29:16 GMT -6
I know it's a lot of money, but after a few weeks with the new Mac Pro I have no regrets or buyers remorse. The computer and my interface get more use than anything else in my studio so I would sell the gear I sold all over again to buy it. I love being able to just mix as I go if I want to without having to delete or inactivate any plugins when I am tracking. I know it doesn't do anything to impact sound or quality of recordings, but it is just a pleasure to use and not think about overloading my CPU and having to freeze or inactivate tracks when I am working on things. My quad core i7 mini served me well, but the Mac Pro is a whole other universe. And I would expect no less for that kind of money! Seriously though, that's very cool. And I agree that there is peace of mind having a computer be invisible, so to speak. It's just there, doing it's job, and you don't even think about it. That's what I want. I get so frustrated firing up the studio only to have that fan start revving up. Takes the wind out of my sails. A Mac Pro would be some serious overkill for me. I think I'd end up just as well with a new iMac for half the price. For my needs, anyways. Now, if I can hold on for long enough, and hope that Apple comes through... I think you summed it up better than I did, because you are correct, the computer has become invisible and everything just works, and it is right next to my recording desk and it is silent.
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