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Post by thirdeye on Apr 25, 2020 9:15:42 GMT -6
I’m looking to expand on our vocal mics for shootouts. What I like to do when I’m tracking vocals is setup 4 or 5 options, have the singer do a few lines, or a verse and chorus on each mic, then listen back with them in the control room to find what mic is the best fit for them from what is available. In this same scenario, which mics would you setup for a male vocalist, which mics for a female vocalist? Just a general sort of workhorse mic setup that you think would get you there.
I have a couple of the usual suspects already, a SM7b, a U67. Also have some not so usual suspects that I’ll shoot out, UM70, 414s, MA200, 441, Shure KSM353, RE-20 and a couple more. I guess I’m just looking for more workhorse options to add to our list. I’m sure a 47 type would be suggested, maybe a C800 type, a 251 type, perhaps a 87, what else??
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Post by Ward on Apr 25, 2020 10:26:15 GMT -6
Yes, get a Heiserman 47 Tube... and get it with both headbaskets if you can afford it. The H47 capsule is a K47 which has that big contoured sounds and the H7 capsule is the M7 which is as smooth as silk. They sound remarkably different. |
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Post by damoongo on Apr 25, 2020 10:35:41 GMT -6
Every project (and genre) is different, but I find that usually the best vocal performances happen in the first 3 or four takes. So, by the time you’ve got your shootout done, it’s all down hill from there. You’ve got a lot of great flavours there with the ck12, k67/870, M7, and the dynamics ((re20/sm7).
I would try to find a beautiful vintage u47. (It brought another level of euphonic beauty to my workflow here, and artists seem to up their game when singing into it.). And a Sony C37a for those voices that are so naturally great that the honesty of the C37a is the perfect match. And lastly, a nice ribbon for those times where that is the best match. (44BX? AEA A840?)
Get to know them all very well, and then once you hear the singer and the song you’ll make a good call on which mic to put up to catch those early most inspired/connected performances.
Of course if you come across a good 251 or C800 (Same capsule as C37a) then it couldn’t hurt to have around!
Also, if the capsule in your 414 isn’t a brass ring ck12, you could swap one in there and be quite happy with the change.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 25, 2020 17:18:41 GMT -6
I would echo a lot of what was said already. A lot of this depends on the genres you are working in. A 47 and 251 seem like good additions. If you do a lot of pop, R&B, or hip hop than a C800g style mics also seems like a good idea.
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Post by chessparov on Apr 25, 2020 19:30:47 GMT -6
Here's a twist... How about three different price categories. Take the winners, of each respective price category. Then do a blind test, between the three!  Just a thought, for something different. Chris |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,919 
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Post by ericn on Apr 25, 2020 21:23:04 GMT -6
Hieserman if you want a 47 sound but I would also say try some of the more off beat mics as well Sony / Tonelux maybe the Beyer 840, ect.
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Post by Jason on Apr 26, 2020 9:00:36 GMT -6
Don’t sleep on the AEA KU5A! An active ribbon with a supercardiod pattern - it’s a fantastic original alternative to some of the hyped-sounding copycat LDCs out there! Just my $0.02. YMMV.
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Post by chessparov on Apr 26, 2020 11:45:30 GMT -6
Samar AL-95 and No Hype LRM-V, would be cool too.
Chris
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Post by thirdeye on Apr 27, 2020 10:14:57 GMT -6
I appreciate all the informed responses so far. Ultimately and unfortunately it will come down to budget for us, and probably the need for "bang for your buck" mics. Not sure if we can even afford the Heiserman right now. At this point I'm leaning towards adding three mics. Probably a 47 type (Signal Art??), a 251 type and for the third I'm debating between the AEA KU5A and the R84. We have a AEA R88, and I certainly love that mic, which can kind of give me an idea of what the R84 would sound like I guess. Thoughts??
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 27, 2020 10:53:52 GMT -6
I appreciate all the informed responses so far. Ultimately and unfortunately it will come down to budget for us, and probably the need for "bang for your buck" mics. Not sure if we can even afford the Heiserman right now. At this point I'm leaning towards adding three mics. Probably a 47 type (Signal Arts??), a 251 type and for the third I'm debating between the AEA KU5A and the R84. We have a AEA R88, and I certainly love that mic, which can kind of give me an idea of what the R84 would sound like I guess. Thoughts?? Signal Art or something custom by Barbaric are going to be your best bang for your buck. Signal Art will also customize if you want. Say you prefer the Thiersch capsule or even a Neumann k47 in your 47, he just needs you to source it. |
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Post by thirdeye on Apr 27, 2020 18:49:30 GMT -6
I think I'm leaning towards Signal Art's U48 and his 251 as well.
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Post by Ward on Apr 27, 2020 19:58:40 GMT -6
I appreciate all the informed responses so far. Ultimately and unfortunately it will come down to budget for us, and probably the need for "bang for your buck" mics. Not sure if we can even afford the Heiserman right now. At this point I'm leaning towards adding three mics. Probably a 47 type (Signal Art??), a 251 type and for the third I'm debating between the AEA KU5A and the R84. We have a AEA R88, and I certainly love that mic, which can kind of give me an idea of what the R84 would sound like I guess. Thoughts?? KU5A versus R84? Very different beasts. Make sure you try them both out before you buy one or the other. I have an R84 here, and I swear it's just there for looks 350 days of the year. |
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Post by damoongo on Apr 28, 2020 16:37:38 GMT -6
I appreciate all the informed responses so far. Ultimately and unfortunately it will come down to budget for us, and probably the need for "bang for your buck" mics. Not sure if we can even afford the Heiserman right now. At this point I'm leaning towards adding three mics. Probably a 47 type (Signal Art??), a 251 type and for the third I'm debating between the AEA KU5A and the R84. We have a AEA R88, and I certainly love that mic, which can kind of give me an idea of what the R84 would sound like I guess. Thoughts?? Cool. The thing about real U47’s is yes, they sound INSANE! But also, they are essentially free... OK, they’re not free, but I bet there isn’t one person who’s sold one at a net loss, ever. So if you can save/beg/borrow a stack of bills, you can be pretty confident that when you are done, you will get all your money back. Plus you’ve had the sound (and caché) of a real u47 in the studio in the meantime. That’s where the math on the clones doesn’t add up.. When you pack up shop, you’ll recoup it all with a genuine Neumann u47. I know it’s a very big capital outlay, but a pretty safe bet if you can get the scratch together. Oh, and my god, the sound.... (I’m not recommending this for everyone’s home setup, but it sounds like you are running a studio with external clients etc...) |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 28, 2020 17:35:19 GMT -6
U47/U67 and Sony C37a styles, are my current all time condenser faves.
IMHO $1000 and under, ought to include Chad's UT 47FET & Mark Fouxman's TF08.
Chris
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Post by thirdeye on May 6, 2020 15:08:00 GMT -6
Chad at Signal Art has been absolutely wonderful with his communication. He is building me a U48 Premium and also a 251 Baseline. I'll probably pick up one of his UT47Fet mics when they are available too. I've decided to not get the R84 right now, and just use one side of our R88 if I'm looking for that color.
I definitely understand damoongo's fine point of getting a real "free" vintage 47, and as wonderful as that would be, I just can't come up with that much money or worse, take on the debt at this time (I need to get a new HDX 3 Pro Tools rig this year...). Not to mention the additional cost if it were to need a VF14 tube somewhere down the road or before I'd sell it. With the Signal Art mics, I'll get good workhouse mics that I can work with right away, they will sound great and will last a lifetime.
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Post by thirdeye on Jun 18, 2020 19:35:47 GMT -6
Follow up on this, today was my first chance to set up my new Signal Art U48 Premium and 251. I set them up next to my MG UM70 and our vintage U67 for a little vocal test. I was so pleasantly surprised by the Signal Art mics. The U48 is mammoth sounding, larger than life, huge low end, smooth and even midrange, and sweet top end that never gets harsh. The 251 was great too, big bottom, smooth mids, and the articulation was amazing, like nothing we have in the mic locker. I am beyond happy with the purchase. Thanks Chad!!
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 18, 2020 20:03:09 GMT -6
His 251 is the mic I’m most curious about from Chad. He has a real passion for that one when we’ve had conversations about it.
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Post by jamiesego on Jun 19, 2020 13:53:14 GMT -6
We need pics! I’ve been digging the Warm 47 so much that I’m thinking about upgrading to the Signal Art.
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Post by thirdeye on Jun 19, 2020 16:12:57 GMT -6
We need pics! I’ve been digging the Warm 47 so much that I’m thinking about upgrading to the Signal Art. I should have taken some pictures, don't know why I didn't. Doh! I should have also setup my Stam SA47 Fet with everything else. I forgot I had it actually!! Next time... |
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