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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 20:18:11 GMT -6
Guys I'm no engineer but im very passionate about recording sound quality and want the best. I have SS mic gefell m930ts which is awesome. Do i really need a tube mic? I alwayss shyed away from the maintanence aspect of it
After hearing how the sound has to be best at the source (the mic).. I have the itch to get a more expensive mic. Another on my radar is umt800 which is another solid contender but is ss.
So to all the serious engineers here? Is this an upgrade or more or less just different? And I have pretty solid mic already. Also I noticed passed 1000budget the quality gap closes pretty drastically between mid-to-hiend mics. In trying hard to fight the urge, for someome to discourage me so I save some money lol Opinions please
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Post by tkaitkai on Apr 3, 2020 20:58:07 GMT -6
With the M 92.1s, you not only get a nice tube mic, but also the most historically accurate M7 capsule available (IIRC, the only difference between a modern Gefell M7 and the original is the specific PVC formulation... someone correct me if I'm wrong). If you were to get the UM 92.1s, you'd also get multiple polar patterns. Based on that alone, I personally would be more interested in the 92.1 (or any Gefell with an M7, really, especially the UM 900) than the 930. But if you like your 930, that's a different story. Finding a mic that you get along with is hard enough as it is — if you think your 930 is awesome, why change mics? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 21:11:02 GMT -6
Yes sir. Mt71s has m7 too and it's super nice and much affordable but I do prefer older um70 due to transformer. Ahhh I knew someone would mention um92.1 (multi-pattern), that does stretch the budget a bit. It's just that I never owned tube mic but I'm not sure if it's something I really need or am I missing something. Is this mic that much better or just different. Most people like chase clones, I rather get a new mic and save the headaches of servicing in long term.
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Post by drbill on Apr 3, 2020 22:51:48 GMT -6
It's a different topology mic - not necessarily "better". Or worse. A "more expensive" mic is not necessarily going to get your where you want to go. MORE mics will. Lots of different styles of mics. Because often, a SM7 or a SM58 or another inexpensive mic will beat out U47;s or 251's. Because every source is different.
I wouldn't worry about the maintenance. They are pretty much the same as a solid state mic in my experience. Unless you get a problematic one. I never had a tube mic for the first 20-ish years of my career, and I somehow managed to get a Grammy, and work on tons of high end projects without a tube mic. I DID have a great mic though. A U87. Along with a bunch of other standard type mics, Then, eventually, I got the mic bug and added a bunch of tube mics. AND....a BUNCH (7) of Gefell mics. UM70's, U71S's, M70/692's.
I don't think you can get a bad Gefell. I say go for it if you've got the $$.
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Post by chessparov on Apr 4, 2020 0:20:20 GMT -6
FWIW if it were me. Maybe I'd wait to compare a M7 Gefell, to a Heiserman M7 capsuled/H47 Tube.
I really love how that microphone sounds...
Chris
P.S. BTW In 2018, I decided to "save up" for my first premium vocal mic. Very tough choice between Soundelux and Gefell M930.
Ended up being fortunate to "win" a NAMM Booth drawing of the U195. So that decided things!
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Post by reddirt on Apr 4, 2020 1:33:08 GMT -6
A slightly cautionary point here; I have the Gefell CMV 563 re-issue which has the M7 and is a great mic on some things but overall vocals are hit and miss even with a lovely old Bowie sourced tube.
Further to my experience, Klaus (Heyne - guru of German mics) has stated in other fora that the newer gen of Gefell M7s are lacking relative to earlier incarnations.
I'm seriously thinking of checking in with Heiserman to replace my cap particularly as I like the Heiserman cap in my Stam 87 a lot.
On the plus side, Gefell are absolutely top to deal with IME
Cheers, Ross
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Post by chessparov on Apr 4, 2020 1:58:44 GMT -6
Yes, the "Gefell people" are always very nice at their NAMM Booth. I always felt they don't get the recognition here in the US...
That they fully deserve. Eric and his crew at Heiserman, are super cool too.
I personally prefer the M7 a little, over the K47 capsule, other things being equal. Even more "vintage" tone...
Chris
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 4, 2020 2:35:43 GMT -6
Haven't used the Umt800 but have used the M92 in a studio some and it is a really nice mic. It's pretty balanced, not overly bright like a lot of modern condensers, not dark either. It's just balanced with a little mid push I'd say.
I think you'd be very happy with it.
I'm looking to replace my U87 this year and I'm planning on auditioning 4-5 mics in my home writing studio and the M92 is one of them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 9:43:57 GMT -6
It's a different topology mic - not necessarily "better". Or worse. A "more expensive" mic is not necessarily going to get your where you want to go. MORE mics will. Lots of different styles of mics. Because often, a SM7 or a SM58 or another inexpensive mic will beat out U47;s or 251's. Because every source is different. I wouldn't worry about the maintenance. They are pretty much the same as a solid state mic in my experience. Unless you get a problematic one. I never had a tube mic for the first 20-ish years of my career, and I somehow managed to get a Grammy, and work on tons of high end projects without a tube mic. I DID have a great mic though. A U87. Along with a bunch of other standard type mics, Then, eventually, I got the mic bug and added a bunch of tube mics. AND....a BUNCH (7) of Gefell mics. UM70's, U71S's, M70/692's. I don't think you can get a bad Gefell. I say go for it if you've got the $$. yea it definitely i also suffer from "Expensive is better" syndrome, and i have heard about hits been made from much cheaper mics. its not absolute essential for me, i dont have any clients to impress. its mostly a hobby so i have no such pressures. TBH, not a fan of SM7 or SM58 but i seen many people like it. Grammy! wow, nowhere near on your level, like i said music is fun for me. i just like to compose music in spare time and want the best setup. I agree, never heard a bad Gefell Mic. I just cant decide, if i really need it or not. Maybe i should save my money. FWIW if it were me. Maybe I'd wait to compare a M7 Gefell, to a Heiserman M7 capsuled/H47 Tube. I really love how that microphone sounds... Chris P.S. BTW In 2018, I decided to "save up" for my first premium vocal mic. Very tough choice between Soundelux and Gefell M930. Ended up being fortunate to "win" a NAMM Booth drawing of the U195. So that decided things! nice, lucky you bro, i am one of those, i dont win anything in my life for free, wish i did lol. yes Gefell m930 is super nice, they arent terribly priced. I have the TS version. i prefer the sounds of transformers, especially on vocals. A slightly cautionary point here; I have the Gefell CMV 563 re-issue which has the M7 and is a great mic on some things but overall vocals are hit and miss even with a lovely old Bowie sourced tube. Further to my experience, Klaus (Heyne - guru of German mics) has stated in other fora that the newer gen of Gefell M7s are lacking relative to earlier incarnations. I'm seriously thinking of checking in with Heiserman to replace my cap particularly as I like the Heiserman cap in my Stam 87 a lot. On the plus side, Gefell are absolutely top to deal with IME Cheers, Ross I dont know who Klaus is, but i been pretty happy with my Gefells that i do currently own, although i dont have one with M7 capsule, nor i heard the older versions in person except samples online. i personally dont like to temper or modify the originals but thats just me. if i don't like the mic, i wouldnt buy it to upgrade. Haven't used the Umt800 but have used the M92 in a studio some and it is a really nice mic. It's pretty balanced, not overly bright like a lot of modern condensers, not dark either. It's just balanced with a little mid push I'd say. I think you'd be very happy with it. I'm looking to replace my U87 this year and I'm planning on auditioning 4-5 mics in my home writing studio and the M92 is one of them. definitely its on my short list too. I would of gotten the UMT800 but its transformerless, i like some iron warmth in my signal chain but a good design is a good design and they sound awesome from what i heard. replacing u87? thats the industry standard, ur not happy with the results? |
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 4, 2020 10:03:27 GMT -6
definitely its on my short list too. I would of gotten the UMT800 but its transformerless, i like some iron warmth in my signal chain but a good design is a good design and they sound awesome from what i heard. replacing u87? thats the industry standard, ur not happy with the results? I don't know, I've had it for years and have done a lot with it but it kind of leaves underwhelmed most of the time. It works for sure but I feel I can do better. I sold My Wunder CM7 a couple years back because I really needed money, looking back I really wish I'd held on to the Wunder, and sold the U87 and a little outboard instead. Oh well... The Wunder sounded quite a bit better. Mine is A U87 ai. There's a studio about a 2min walk away from my place that has a really nice U47 original, and I'll often end up going there to track vocals but I'd really like to have something that I really love at home. |
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Post by Ward on Apr 4, 2020 10:22:56 GMT -6
Nothing wrong with Gefell Neumann M930 microphones!! Extraordinary microphones and a solid choice for any kind of vocal recording. The M92.1S is more of a classic sound.
Both are G O R G E O U S in slightly different ways but are clearly U47 and U67 siblings.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 14:33:13 GMT -6
A "more expensive" mic is not necessarily going to get your where you want to go. MORE mics will. Lots of different styles of mics I think ur right, it may not be better, just different due to different capsules. I still gota pay off stam, maybe I may have some $$ left .. Thanks for ur opinion |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 4, 2020 16:04:00 GMT -6
FWIW if it were me. Maybe I'd wait to compare a M7 Gefell, to a Heiserman M7 capsuled/H47 Tube. I really love how that microphone sounds... Chris P.S. BTW In 2018, I decided to "save up" for my first premium vocal mic. Very tough choice between Soundelux and Gefell M930. Ended up being fortunate to "win" a NAMM Booth drawing of the U195. So that decided things! nice, lucky you bro, i am one of those, i dont win anything in my life for free, wish i did lol. "I dont know who Klaus is" Klaus is a world class authority on Neumann-along with world class microphone knowledge/judgement/experience/ears to boot. Who might be (hopefully) mildly amused, when occasionally I ask him to mod my MXL V69me. (like a C12!) Somehow the waiting list, is always too long for that! Chris P.S. Thanks Gearlust, about the U195. Helped make up for the unexpected cost ($1000) of getting my car smogged, that year! |
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Post by teejay on Apr 4, 2020 17:36:22 GMT -6
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 4, 2020 18:12:45 GMT -6
A slightly cautionary point here; I have the Gefell CMV 563 re-issue which has the M7 and is a great mic on some things but overall vocals are hit and miss even with a lovely old Bowie sourced tube. Further to my experience, Klaus (Heyne - guru of German mics) has stated in other fora that the newer gen of Gefell M7s are lacking relative to earlier incarnations. I'm seriously thinking of checking in with Heiserman to replace my cap particularly as I like the Heiserman cap in my Stam 87 a lot. On the plus side, Gefell are absolutely top to deal with IME Cheers, Ross The one problem with Gefell is service - if you require service you must send the mic back to the factory. And they have a rep for being somewhat difficult to deal with on the service side of things. For one thing the mic must be returned to them by an authorized dealer. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 4, 2020 18:18:56 GMT -6
Yes, the "Gefell people" are always very nice at their NAMM Booth. I always felt they don't get the recognition here in the US... That they fully deserve. Eric and his crew at Heiserman, are super cool too. I personally prefer the M7 a little, over the K47 capsule, other things being equal. Even more "vintage" tone... Chris Severing ties with their US distributor didn't help. |
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Post by reddirt on Apr 4, 2020 19:23:58 GMT -6
John (Eppstein) my experience directly with the company was nothing less than as good as it possibly could be. Gefell provided express priority bags to Australia both ways if required with exemplary communication. I did not have to go through my dealer , emailing them directly.
It may be because the CMV 563 was a top end product that they were so keen to see me happy but my first hand experience sees them deserving of this post.
My issue was 2 factory screws which were too short to hold the capsule head to the body reliably, actually let go after i had put in a new tube and the capsule assembly hit the deck.
They took my case on board, admitted their poor design and sent me 2 new longer screws in double quick time also offering for me to priority bag the cap back to them on their dime for inspection. I didn't take them up on sending the cap as it appears to run as before.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 20:15:10 GMT -6
Yes, the "Gefell people" are always very nice at their NAMM Booth. I always felt they don't get the recognition here in the US... That they fully deserve. Eric and his crew at Heiserman, are super cool too. I personally prefer the M7 a little, over the K47 capsule, other things being equal. Even more "vintage" tone... Chris Severing ties with their US distributor didn't help. i dont think they had a distributor in US if im not mistaking? or did they? nonetheless their customer has been top notch to me but i never had issues with thier mics in the first place, top notch products! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 20:17:08 GMT -6
The M92.1S is more of a classic sound. Both are G O R G E O U S in slightly different ways but are clearly U47 and U67 siblings. thanks for explaining it in a way, that now im lusting and drooling more after this mic  |
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Post by Ward on Apr 4, 2020 20:36:29 GMT -6
The M92.1S is more of a classic sound. Both are G O R G E O U S in slightly different ways but are clearly U47 and U67 siblings. thanks for explaining it in a way, that now im lusting and drooling more after this mic I'm an enabler. Message Johnkenn for a great deal . . . (I don't get any commission for referrals to John) |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 4, 2020 23:45:01 GMT -6
Severing ties with their US distributor didn't help. i dont think they had a distributor in US if im not mistaking? or did they? nonetheless their customer has been top notch to me but i never had issues with thier mics in the first place, top notch products! My info comes from some guys on another, VERY pro forum who use a lot of Gefells and also include some top technical people. They love the mics, just find the company a PITA to deal with. And yes, they did have a US distributor until relatively recently. The most recent in a fairly long line of US distributors, which might tell you something. |
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Post by ericn on Apr 5, 2020 7:32:25 GMT -6
i dont think they had a distributor in US if im not mistaking? or did they? nonetheless their customer has been top notch to me but i never had issues with thier mics in the first place, top notch products! My info comes from some guys on another, VERY pro forum who use a lot of Gefells and also include some top technical people. They love the mics, just find the company a PITA to deal with. And yes, they did have a US distributor until relatively recently. The most recent in a fairly long line of US distributors, which might tell you something. Like many they have gone through a number of distributors in the US, but that isn’t always a reflection of the manufacturer. There is so much political BS that goes both ways. The most demanding thing about Gefell is that they don’t have a North American service center. They want to work on their mics, now when you consider how many flakes have come and gone in the mic repair biz is that really a bad thing? |
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Post by svart on Apr 5, 2020 9:22:00 GMT -6
Because you'll want more gefell mics and they're expensive.
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Post by svart on Apr 5, 2020 9:36:26 GMT -6
i dont think they had a distributor in US if im not mistaking? or did they? nonetheless their customer has been top notch to me but i never had issues with thier mics in the first place, top notch products! My info comes from some guys on another, VERY pro forum who use a lot of Gefells and also include some top technical people. They love the mics, just find the company a PITA to deal with. And yes, they did have a US distributor until relatively recently. The most recent in a fairly long line of US distributors, which might tell you something. I didn't think they had a us distributor at all, but then again I bought my new gefells 15 years ago. I had one stop working during a thunderstorm that popped up and hit before I could turn everything off. I contacted gefell about it, and they said I had to send it to Germany to have it repaired. They quoted a a bunch of money just to have it looked at. I don't remember how much but it was off-putting. I requested schematics, which they roundly denied stating secrets and such. The mic had one little circuit board in it, which they also refused selling me. I opened the mic, found that they had scratched off all the markings on all the parts. I dislike that they did this, but I guess that's part of their "secrets". So I did what I could and traced out the circuit, and made some assumptions about what types of transistors these might be based on the topology, and between that and a few legible marks still on some of the parts, was able to identify the one transistor that went bad. I did learn some interesting things, one of which included their secret to achieving super low noise in such a high gain amplifier. Novel approach, but nothing too crazy. That was like 10 years ago and my mics still work fine. I just wish I could have either bought the board or sent it to be fixed in the USA and I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of fixing myself and they might have made some more money. |
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Post by Ward on Apr 5, 2020 11:22:17 GMT -6
I did learn some interesting things, one of which included their secret to achieving super low noise in such a high gain amplifier. Novel approach, but nothing too crazy. Share please! |
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