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Post by EmRR on Mar 28, 2020 16:33:14 GMT -6
Some abandoned drum tracks from a location session in a small house; had a U47 and an MK47 (Thiersch Blue) stacked together for comparison, about 4-5 feet out front maybe 2.5 feet off the ground. I cut it up into various short sections of playing. See what ya think. Be sure to download rather than stream, Dropbox lately seems to re-encode and screw up files when streaming. 47 147 2
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Post by tkaitkai on Mar 28, 2020 16:40:32 GMT -6
Really great tones here, absolutely love the snare.
Both of these are great captures. Tough call between the two, but I think I prefer 2 — seems tighter, thicker, and more controlled overall.
I do like the kick on 1, though, and the top end is really sweet, too.
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 29, 2020 2:35:27 GMT -6
I’ve gone back and forth on which one I like the best. I feel for what I do, mostly folk that I’d pick 2 for it’s extra clarity, I don’t feel I need the low end of 1 but man thzt is some MASSIVE low end!
Both sound perfectly useable though and that’s a great sounding kick drum
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Post by Ward on Mar 29, 2020 8:47:31 GMT -6
2 has better clarity, but the detail on both is very similar. Yes, the low mid to high bass on 1 is greater. but this is only one microphone that would contribute to the overall sound. I would rip out whatever dampening you have in that snare drum and put a ringer on the top head. Tune the top head to D4 (d above middle c) and the bottom head to a5, if possible. You might be able to pinch off the resonant ringing from the snare wires vibrating on the bottom head as well by slackening them off just a tiny bit.
JMHO, and opinions and tastes vary. Certainly better sounding from one microphone than most of the commercial drum sounds I heard out of Nashville between 05 and 15. But that might be the crushing mixes of the time.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 29, 2020 10:10:28 GMT -6
I haven’t tried EQ matching to see what happens, someone with an EQ matching plug should process them and put them back up.
Like I said, abandoned drums. This was a pass at an arrangement, if it had been approved then tuning would have happened. This was just throw up some mics so we can hear a playback, 10-15 minute total investment.
Reveal coming later.
Side note, interesting how much hotter the mk47 runs due to the physical heat dispersing differences in the filament resistor. An original has a large flat curved custom wirewound resistor to maximize heat transfer to the body, so heat is spread out.
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 29, 2020 11:11:32 GMT -6
Tried a match eq but couldn't get number 2 to sound like number 1, could get somewhat close but could not get the same sub energy, nowhere close. It was actually a bit easier to get 1 close to 2 but still they sounded different. Kind of leaning towards 1 right now, it feels a little clearer and I able to pinpoint each element in space a little bit more precisely.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 29, 2020 12:07:24 GMT -6
This is pretty fun and I’m glad I got the chance to do this.
I think it would come down to whatever other mic contribution ended up in the total picture, you might pick either over the other.
One seems more ‘digital’ in it’s space/clarity/pin-pointy-ness, the other more ‘tape’ in squishy presence.
What else: the mk47 has a Hamptone regulated PSU, so that’s a little different. Otherwise the guts seem ‘stock’ mk47, with the Russian PIO coupling cap. Stock 1st issue ioaudio/Max transformer. I have a Moby ‘correct’ replacement transformer I have yet to install, a bit of mechanical work to make that happen. I can’t remember what tubes are in it.
Wish I knew more about the U47, which capsule, what repairs/restorations, etc. There was a spare NOS VF14M in the case. PSU was an original that looked unmodified. Overall great condition.
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 29, 2020 13:00:26 GMT -6
I feel like you could just add a close snare mic on both and be done with it but man that low end on number 1! The extra bite on 2 would probably be awesome on electric guitar or vocals.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 29, 2020 13:11:07 GMT -6
Oh yeah! No processing other than 20 Hz 36/db HPF, #1 is through a VP312 and #2 is through a VP26. Slight difference there, more similar than not. I'd measured and compared the two and there's virtually none in the response plots.
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 29, 2020 13:31:50 GMT -6
Oh yeah! No processing other than 20 Hz 36/db HPF, #1 is through a VP312 and #2 is through a VP26. Slight difference there, more similar than not. I'd measured and compared the two and there's virtually none in the response plots. I wonder how much the pres are contributing. I had a 312 and a 26 and the 312 did have more low end while the 26 and the 28 have a slight upper mid push. Obviously there's a lot more going on here than just the difference between the preamps.
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Post by drbill on Mar 29, 2020 14:16:23 GMT -6
Both are good. On cursory quick listening - not real analyzing - 2 is better overall, but that lower octave on 1 is definitely nice. I'd hazard to guess that #2 is the MK and #1 is the vintage. But it's a total guess.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 29, 2020 14:56:57 GMT -6
Oh yeah! No processing other than 20 Hz 36/db HPF, #1 is through a VP312 and #2 is through a VP26. Slight difference there, more similar than not. I'd measured and compared the two and there's virtually none in the response plots. I wonder how much the pres are contributing. I had a 312 and a 26 and the 312 did have more low end while the 26 and the 28 have a slight upper mid push. Obviously there's a lot more going on here than just the difference between the preamps. I'd say harmonic content is the main difference, more 3rd harmonic applied to the lowest frequencies from the smaller output transformer. But pretty minimal, not at all like the basic capsule EQ differences. Neither preamp was anywhere near overdrive.
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 29, 2020 15:15:43 GMT -6
Both are good. On cursory quick listening - not real analyzing - 2 is better overall, but that lower octave on 1 is definitely nice. I'd hazard to guess that #2 is the MK and #1 is the vintage. But it's a total guess. I'd guess the other way around but that's only based on the couple U47s I use in the studios I record at. They seem like they're pretty well maintained but I'm definitely no specialist. They always have a certain bite that I haven't heard in the clones I've used, Wunder and Flea.
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Post by drbill on Mar 29, 2020 18:22:53 GMT -6
Both are good. On cursory quick listening - not real analyzing - 2 is better overall, but that lower octave on 1 is definitely nice. I'd hazard to guess that #2 is the MK and #1 is the vintage. But it's a total guess. I'd guess the other way around but that's only based on the couple U47s I use in the studios I record at. They seem like they're pretty well maintained but I'm definitely no specialist. They always have a certain bite that I haven't heard in the clones I've used, Wunder and Flea. You could be right. Probably are. It was just a WAG. Actually, I've used my MK47 placed similarly, and it did have a huge bottom end in that application. Can I change my guess?? #1 MK, #2 vintage..... No wait....AAAAaaaaahhhhhhhhh.......
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Post by Vincent R. on Mar 29, 2020 20:45:22 GMT -6
I think I preferred #1 to #2, but felt both worked really well in this context.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 30, 2020 21:04:28 GMT -6
last call.....
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 31, 2020 1:43:31 GMT -6
Everyone is always asking for U47 shootouts, I thought this would be the thread of the year!
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Post by EmRR on Mar 31, 2020 8:19:02 GMT -6
Everyone is always asking for U47 shootouts, I thought this would be the thread of the year! Hey, I’m apparently the king of shootouts no one cares about. There was one last year I took down after no one said anything within a week! : (
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Post by craigmorris74 on Mar 31, 2020 8:57:19 GMT -6
I liked the tighter sound of #2.
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 31, 2020 9:28:22 GMT -6
Everyone is always asking for U47 shootouts, I thought this would be the thread of the year! Hey, I’m apparently the king of shootouts no one cares about. There was one last year I took down after no one said anything within a week! : ( I'm sure quite a few people listen and don't post. And it's there for posterity. I know I got some LC53a because I read years later after you and some other people who's opinions I respect posted on GS about them and I'm loving them. So who knows when someone'll find useful!
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Post by christopher on Mar 31, 2020 9:32:49 GMT -6
I liked #1 up until the ride, then it reminded me what I don’t like about by my Rode Classic. But I got the classic because I was surprised how close it was to a real 47, so.. #2 sounded cleaner throughout, but less distortion that I’d expect from a really old mic. And #1 has a warmth that doesn’t need a bunch of outboard to warm it up. #2 I’d want some outboard. How to choose? Tough.. originally I thought #2 was the 47, because the ride cymbal. But then noticed the warmth on #1 changed my mind.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 31, 2020 9:56:32 GMT -6
All of the responses make sense to me, and also make me wonder (pointlessly) about the monitoring. That alone easily influences choice. Then individual taste! There are no wrong answers!
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 31, 2020 10:08:02 GMT -6
All of the responses make sense to me, and also make me wonder (pointlessly) about the monitoring. That alone easily influences choice. Then individual taste! There are no wrong answers! Or even when you're listening! My first go around was with fresh ears before working on a mix of mine, I liked 2 better, then I listened again after working and my ears were a bit tired and I liked 1 better because I found 2 too agressive. Listened again this morning and went back to 2 by a wide margin, richer sounding mids and a nice bite that I feel would cut a lot better in a mix.
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Post by drbill on Mar 31, 2020 10:08:26 GMT -6
There are no wrong answers! yeah, but there ARE right answers. So what are they?
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Post by christopher on Mar 31, 2020 10:30:55 GMT -6
Listened again man the ride on #2 sounds really good.. ok yeah I'm done commenting lol
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