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Post by drbill on Apr 19, 2020 20:31:36 GMT -6
I got no science. Sorry. But I do have the "official" stats for my county and I'm sure this will piss people off too.
Almost a month after the prediction of "hell on earth" in all hospitals on the planet in 2 weeks, our two hospitals have a grand total of 3 people with Covid in the two hospitals combined - with another 300 staffed beds waiting for the apocalypse.
We have a county total of 72 confirmed cases (up 20 in the last 2 weeks), 1 death (been that way for 4 weeks now and has not risen), and 5 total recoveries. Aside from the media and governmental actions and everyone freaking, I don't think it would even have been a blip on the radar or normalcy here without the governmental actions and media. I mean, I honestly think the local doctors would have just chocked it up to a bad flu strain or pneumonia. There's just not enough going on here. Of course, this may be because of social distancing or because we are not packed like sardines here, but honestly, there's a LOT of people here who are not really doing the social distancing thing. Which leads to the next interesting thing....
Folks under 65 make up 2/3 of the cases, and over 65 1/3 of the cases. Quite a few infected that are in the 1-17 age group. My guess is that this demographic is not as fearful as the older folks who were told this could def. be fatal - so they are out and around more.
And just to make life interesting and more controversial, there are personal reports (definitely not science) coming from doctors and medical staff in NYC that the whole thing in NYC is being inextricably overblown for political and financial reasons. Doctors being told to count EVERY death as a Covid death no matter the cause so the hospital gets more $$$. Certain hospitals overflowing, while others are almost empty. Morgue trucks sitting "full" because the coroner just doesn't want to be contaminated. Temporary hospitals not being needed. But media reporting much the opposite. Who to believe? You'll have to decide for yourself.
Again, not science, but enough of a coincidence to make one wonder. I've never seen things do diametrically opposed on such an important issue in all my life. I long for the good ol days when the news was just the news and not a billion dollar money making industry.
Maybe I was just naive.....
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 19, 2020 21:28:08 GMT -6
Ny and Nj just aren’t fairing as well unfortunately Bill.
My mother works at a funeral home where they generally get 2 or 3 deaths a week. They have 23 bodies in their possession currently and that’s been a steadily growing number per week for the past month. Parents live in a suburb of NYC in NJ about 6 miles out.
Wife’s family had a death that was one of the people at a nursing home here that is under a major investigation. They didn’t find out the woman had passed away until 4 days later when they tried to call her on Easter Sunday.
Friends that are doctors and nurses are at wits end and just plain damn tired - never mind being told they are blowing things out of proportion.
I’m glad it’s not as intense in certain areas of the country. This really sucks and I hope it gets under control soon.
Stay safe everybody.
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Post by drbill on Apr 19, 2020 22:24:21 GMT -6
Ny and Nj just aren’t fairing as well unfortunately Bill. Stay safe everybody. Wish there was definitive news that one could believe. Not doubting your family's situation, and I'm sorry and wish them the best. I'm getting conflicting reports to yours out of NYC. So weird.... Hang in there, and stay safe!! |
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Post by ericn on Apr 20, 2020 10:41:03 GMT -6
I got no science. Sorry. But I do have the "official" stats for my county and I'm sure this will piss people off too. Almost a month after the prediction of "hell on earth" in all hospitals on the planet in 2 weeks, our two hospitals have a grand total of 3 people with Covid in the two hospitals combined - with another 300 staffed beds waiting for the apocalypse. We have a county total of 72 confirmed cases (up 20 in the last 2 weeks), 1 death (been that way for 4 weeks now and has not risen), and 5 total recoveries. Aside from the media and governmental actions and everyone freaking, I don't think it would even have been a blip on the radar or normalcy here without the governmental actions and media. I mean, I honestly think the local doctors would have just chocked it up to a bad flu strain or pneumonia. There's just not enough going on here. Of course, this may be because of social distancing or because we are not packed like sardines here, but honestly, there's a LOT of people here who are not really doing the social distancing thing. Which leads to the next interesting thing.... Folks under 65 make up 2/3 of the cases, and over 65 1/3 of the cases. Quite a few infected that are in the 1-17 age group. My guess is that this demographic is not as fearful as the older folks who were told this could def. be fatal - so they are out and around more. And just to make life interesting and more controversial, there are personal reports (definitely not science) coming from doctors and medical staff in NYC that the whole thing in NYC is being inextricably overblown for political and financial reasons. Doctors being told to count EVERY death as a Covid death no matter the cause so the hospital gets more $$$. Certain hospitals overflowing, while others are almost empty. Morgue trucks sitting "full" because the coroner just doesn't want to be contaminated. Temporary hospitals not being needed. But media reporting much the opposite. Who to believe? You'll have to decide for yourself. Again, not science, but enough of a coincidence to make one wonder. I've never seen things do diametrically opposed on such an important issue in all my life. I long for the good ol days when the news was just the news and not a billion dollar money making industry. Maybe I was just naive..... The reports of every death in NY being reported as COVID-19 is simply false, it’s actually more the opposite. I spoke 2 NY docs an NY ER doc and a Pathologist in the last 2 days, both checking in on me. If you know pathologist and coroners nobody is going to sign off on an unproven cause of death. In fact both admitted it’s the exact opposite, probable Covid 19 deaths are being reported as either cardiac arrest or some sort of respiratory distress if there is not a test showing a positive Covid 19 diagnosis! nobody is going to take the financial or career risk of recording a cause of death they can’t prove, to do so would be just plain stupid and illegal! If CMS even caught wind of this happening or even the pressure by administration to do so they would be investigating it in a flash Trust me you don’t want to live through a CMS investigation and nobody in health care wants CMS to shut down their Medicare / Medicare payments. The short term benifit is not worth the long term implications. |
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Post by Ward on Apr 20, 2020 11:21:45 GMT -6
The Corona Rules:
1. Basically, you can't leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.
2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.
4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same applies to doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.
5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.
6. Gloves won't help, but they can still help.
7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it's important to GO OUT.
8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.
9. The virus has no effect on children except those it affects.
10. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…
11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Oh, my..
12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it's better not to go out, well, but no…
13. It's better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very wrong when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, you don't go to parks or walk. But don’t sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old). (And wear a mask. Oh, see #2.)
14. You can't go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.
15. If you are sick, you can't go out, but you can go to the pharmacy.
16. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn't wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?
17. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with " I don't want to trigger panic, but…"
18. You can't see your older mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.
19. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don't live under the same roof.
20. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, no, six, no, we didn't say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment. Oh no, not necessarily.
22. The virus stays in the air - well no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance, however in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.
23. We count the number of deaths but we don't know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were "almost dead" to find out if that's what they will die of…
24. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not dangerous unless you take too much (which is the case with all medications).
25. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates… but we must no longer be locked up for that?
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Post by christopher on Apr 20, 2020 11:34:08 GMT -6
I think they really screwed up with the flu-like symptoms thing.. everyone gets the flu, it’s a part of life... only the weakest are ever at any risk. This is not a flu, it’s something else. After reading some first hand accounts finally, I feel pretty sure I had it. Here’s what I can tell you first hand, from my experience.
For the unfortunate ones, the chills aren’t “chills”, it’s rigor, which are extreme tremors and involuntary muscle contractions. The body aches aren’t flu type aches.. it’s a massive buildup of lactic acid in the muscles from flexing due to rigor. Basically take yourself to the gym and have The Rock force you to do a 4 hour routine with him, next day every damn muscle fiber is in total pain down to the bone marrow. Then there’s a screaming headache like you been out drinking cheap tequila till 4am and still went to work next day anyway. This might have been because your jaw bone was slamming your skull like a jackhammer for hours? Or it could be lack of oxygen? Doesn’t matter.. it sucks. But all these miserable and horrible symptoms are absolutely nothing compared to the worst one...
You wake up with a tickle in the back of your throat.. obviously something that needs to be coughed up, like some food went down the wrong pipe. So you hack for a bit and nothing comes out. No phlem, no nothing.. and now the tickle is worse. So you try again, same result. Again..nothing. After 3 minutes you are starting to get really upset, so you start taking much stronger and deeper breathes, to really force the damn thing out.. hack hack hack.. bottom of your lungs can feel something is there and it needs to get out. But nothing comes out, just air. Feels like there’s a damn piece of food or something stuck in your windpipe and it’s driving you insane! And now you can’t stop coughing. Your body is trying to hack it out for you now, you aren’t even trying. Ok.. where is this going? And after about 20 involuntary hacks in a row you realize you are totally out of breath and not getting enough oxygen, you just need to take in a few breathes and forget that thing in your throat before trying again. But your body won’t let you stop coughing. Finally.. a break in the hacking, you are so ready to inhale that deep wonderful breath like coming up out of the water... and you start to pull air into your lungs, as soon as you get just 1/2 cup of air your body starts hacking again. Damnit! Another 20-30 second fit without breathing. Now you are seriously going insane.. you need air, but you can’t get any. Again, the hacking finally stops for a second, you try to breath again and same thing.. a tiny gulp of air and back to 30 seconds no breathing, just hacking. so far you’ve been awake for about 15-20 minutes and it’s been pure hell, body is in pain, head is pounding, but all you want is a little oxygen. Each cough is causing your diaphragm to contract, which is causing your heart rate to jump in an attempt to feed much needed oxygen to your muscles, which is causing your body to want to gulp in air, which is causing you to cough. It’s a feedback loop, and it’s killing you! It’s been a couple minutes and just a cup full of air! So you realize, you’ll need to stop the coughing.. that will stop the muscles from needing oxygen, which will stop the heart from jumping, which will stop this cycle! So you tell yourself to not cough, even though that thing in your windpipe is driving you insane. And don’t take deep breaths, even though it’s what you want so very bad and most of all. Only take shallow breathes, .. tiniest breathes you can do, and whatever you do...don’t cough!!! You start taking tiny breaths of air, and fighting the urge to cough.. you get about 10 seconds worth of breathing, you can feel your heart start to slow, when your body starts coughing again. F***! Another 20 seconds go by and you are fighting to keep yourself from coughing.. again.. tiny breaths, fight the urge to cough. This time you make it about 30 seconds without coughing, but this tiny breathing crap is driving you mad! You need a real breathe of air! So you decide, maybe I can take in a deep breathe now? Maybe if I try a slow deep breathe? So you give it shot.. and immediately start coughing, back to the feedback loop. This goes on for an hour, total misery. Another hour.. eventually you start to realize: I won’t be breathing real breathes for a few days, and that thing in my windpipe is not going to be coming out until this is over. But if you lay perfectly still... your heart can survive on these itty bitty breathes. As soon as you move a muscle, like lift your leg.. your heart rate jumps up and the coughing loop starts. Getting up to the restroom is a battle that takes 5-10 minutes of suffering, coughing loop, suffocation.. it’s just the way it is. Super annoying!!! And you got this damn headache that feels like a hangover on top of it, body is sore and beat up like it got ran over! The only positive is that the lack of oxygen helps you feel drunk.
Anyway.. this is nothing like a “flu”. Sure most all will survive and be fine, as anyone would if they had to hike 100 miles though the wilderness. I really don’t want to deal with this stupid thing again. I’d pick food poisoning every time.
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Post by drbill on Apr 20, 2020 12:18:30 GMT -6
The reports of every death in NY being reported as COVID-19 is simply false. OK. Again, back to who do you believe. 2 credible sources. Second hand. Completely opposite. Agendas. Everybody's got one. Sigh.... |
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Post by christopher on Apr 20, 2020 12:54:12 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy theorists against the shutdown are working for the CIA. The movie Contagion has those same characters and same backlash. It’s like some kind of plan man...
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Post by svart on Apr 20, 2020 13:28:31 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy theorists against the shutdown are working for the CIA. The movie Contagion has those same characters and same backlash. It’s like some kind of plan man... It's no conspiracy that once the government puts laws and rules into play, they rarely remove them once the impetus for them has gone. Let this go on too long and the masks will become muzzles. |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 20, 2020 14:37:58 GMT -6
As of today, within the approximately 3.2 million OC/California population... Approximately 1,700 cases/33 deaths. If we multiply by 100, to approximate US population... It'd be 170,000 cases/3,300 deaths. Actual US figures, are around 750K cases/around 40K deaths. So in OC, we are less than 25% of the National case average (per capita), and have approximate overall risk to being an Alaskan resident deathwise... Chris P.S. Ward your post was really funny, no matter where you sit in the "spectrum" of opinion!  |
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Post by christopher on Apr 20, 2020 20:34:44 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy theorists against the shutdown are working for the CIA. The movie Contagion has those same characters and same backlash. It’s like some kind of plan man... It's no conspiracy that once the government puts laws and rules into play, they rarely remove them once the impetus for them has gone. Let this go on too long and the masks will become muzzles. now they want to make Face ID broken at same time they conspiring to take rights away? Seems kinda a play in the favor of the citizens, right? |
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Post by swurveman on Apr 21, 2020 9:32:02 GMT -6
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Post by christopher on Apr 21, 2020 10:15:38 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing. I don’t trust NYtimes for any news anymore, but this article does give some hope. Like is it a ploy to sell a bunch of pulse oximeters? (at least the patent is expired) They are cheap, I guess it’s time every house have one. My friend is waiting for her test, her O2 levels were fine. I guess we will see how this correlates if she comes back positive.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 21, 2020 10:59:30 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing. I don’t trust NYtimes for any news anymore, but this article does give some hope. Like is it a ploy to sell a bunch of pulse oximeters? (at least the patent is expired) They are cheap, I guess it’s time every house have one. My friend is waiting for her test, her O2 levels were fine. I guess we will see how this correlates if she comes back positive. Interesting, but two things jump out to me. 1) pulse oximeters are often NOT accurate. If you have poor circulation or even just cold hands you'll get a false low reading. Nail polish too can give bad readings. Using one isn't rocket science but it does take some knowledge on how to troubleshoot. 2) I have a hard time believing there's all these patients with SpO2 saturations of 50% that are asymptomatic (when it comes to hypoxia). Sure seeing a few people like that is "normal", but I'm highly suspicious of that claim. That being said if I was sick I'd use one as a gauge. |
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Post by svart on Apr 22, 2020 22:02:50 GMT -6
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 13:21:34 GMT -6
I got no science. Sorry. But I do have the "official" stats for my county and I'm sure this will piss people off too. Almost a month after the prediction of "hell on earth" in all hospitals on the planet in 2 weeks, our two hospitals have a grand total of 3 people with Covid in the two hospitals combined - with another 300 staffed beds waiting for the apocalypse. We have a county total of 72 confirmed cases (up 20 in the last 2 weeks), 1 death (been that way for 4 weeks now and has not risen), and 5 total recoveries. Aside from the media and governmental actions and everyone freaking, I don't think it would even have been a blip on the radar or normalcy here without the governmental actions and media. I mean, I honestly think the local doctors would have just chocked it up to a bad flu strain or pneumonia. There's just not enough going on here. Of course, this may be because of social distancing or because we are not packed like sardines here, but honestly, there's a LOT of people here who are not really doing the social distancing thing. Which leads to the next interesting thing.... Folks under 65 make up 2/3 of the cases, and over 65 1/3 of the cases. Quite a few infected that are in the 1-17 age group. My guess is that this demographic is not as fearful as the older folks who were told this could def. be fatal - so they are out and around more. And just to make life interesting and more controversial, there are personal reports (definitely not science) coming from doctors and medical staff in NYC that the whole thing in NYC is being inextricably overblown for political and financial reasons. Doctors being told to count EVERY death as a Covid death no matter the cause so the hospital gets more $$$. Certain hospitals overflowing, while others are almost empty. Morgue trucks sitting "full" because the coroner just doesn't want to be contaminated. Temporary hospitals not being needed. But media reporting much the opposite. Who to believe? You'll have to decide for yourself. Again, not science, but enough of a coincidence to make one wonder. I've never seen things do diametrically opposed on such an important issue in all my life. I long for the good ol days when the news was just the news and not a billion dollar money making industry. Maybe I was just naive..... Many places in the country are reporting around 70% of all confirmed Covid cases are in old folk's homes and the numbers there are really frightening. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 13:40:40 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy theorists against the shutdown are working for the CIA. The movie Contagion has those same characters and same backlash. It’s like some kind of plan man... It's no conspiracy that once the government puts laws and rules into play, they rarely remove them once the impetus for them has gone. Let this go on too long and the masks will become muzzles. You actually BELIEVE that?
And I thought I was paranoid......
There's a big difference between, for example, the restrictions on air travel - terrorism is unfortunately still a great threat in this world and the ONLY reason that the attacks against passenger planes have mostly stopped (they still happen occasionally in parts of the world that don't have our restrictions) is that we have these pesky rules in place that prevent it from happening. So there is, in fact, a legitimate reason to maintain those rules.
The Covid restrictions aren't like that and present as great an inconvenience to those in power as they do to regular citizens - think about it - what POSSIBLE reason would the shadowy "powers that be" have for maintaing face masks and restrictions on gatherings? The face mask thing "lasting forever" thing is TOTALLY wacko and restrictions on gatherings areas inconvenients for the political people of ALL stripes as they are for, for example, musicians.
What you are saying makes no sense.
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Post by svart on Apr 23, 2020 13:50:47 GMT -6
It's no conspiracy that once the government puts laws and rules into play, they rarely remove them once the impetus for them has gone. Let this go on too long and the masks will become muzzles. You actually BELIEVE that?
And I thought I was paranoid......
There's a big differencer between, for exampl;e, the restricyions on air travel - terrorism is unfortunately still a great threat in this world and the ONLY reason that the attacks against passenger planes have mostly stopped (they still happen occasionally in parts of the world that don't have our restrictions) is that we have these pesky rules in place that prevent it from happening. So there is, in fact, a lefetimate reason to mai9ntain those rules.
The Covid restrictions aren't like that an present an inconvenience to those in power as they do to regular citizens - think about it - what POSSIBLE reason would the shadowy "powers that be" have for maintaing face masks and restrictions on gatherings? The face mask thing "lasting forever" thing is TOTALLY wacko and restrictions on gatherings areas inconvenients for the political people of ALL stripes as they are for, for example, musicians.
What you are saying makes no sense.
TSA has not once caught an attempt at an attack. Most security experts agree that it was the worst possible way to combat potential terrorism, but our government needed to * show* the people that they were doing something to make them feel safe. Doing something by making them stand in lines that are routinely longer and more compact an area than inside a plane, right next to the receptacles that you're supposed to drop your *possibly* explosive shampoo and stuff in.. You know, for your safety, because if the idea was to kill as many people as possible, the easiest way to do so would be go after the security lines at a major airport. And, Patriot act was supposed to expire, and instead they renewed it because they enjoy the avoidance of law that it gives them. You think certain lawmakers are going to give up some of the powers they've given themselves? You're the one who doesn't have any sense if you think that they'll let those powers go after this.. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 14:03:03 GMT -6
Unfortunately his "statistics" don't agree with the actual facts.
To begin with, it's not "the same everywhere". Perhaps in a country like Israel in might seem that way, but Israel is a very small country that has many factors that set it apart from most other countries.
In the USA the latest infectious trend appears to be that more sparsely populated areas are experiencing a definite upsurge that has been less obvious to casual observers because of the way such illnesses spread in areas of lower population density. However when those areas finally DO get hit they get hit much harder than more developed areas because they just don't have the hospital capacity to deal with it - most of the medical facilities are "community hospitals" with little staff and less equipment - a majority don't have proper intensive care wards or isolation facilities because it has always been assumed that patients needing such things would get medevaced to larger, better equipped facilities in urban areas. And community hospitals generally don't have the required specialists on staff - in normal times they might get a visiting specialist in once every week or two on a rotating basis. So, watching the numbers and looking at the maps indicates that the more rural areas are about to get a peak - they just didn't get it yet because it takes longer to get there.
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Post by drbill on Apr 23, 2020 14:15:02 GMT -6
Many places in the country are reporting around 70% of all confirmed Covid cases are in old folk's homes and the numbers there are really frightening. Here, the 70% is in folks under age 65. Not the other way around. Go figure. I guess stats aren't accurate if applied in a one size fits all methodology. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 23, 2020 14:20:21 GMT -6
In the USA the latest infectious trend appears to be that more sparsely populated areas are experiencing a definite upsurge that has been less obvious to casual observers because of the way such illnesses spread in areas of lower population density.
I would consider the county where I live fairly rural. At this point in time, we're getting one confirmed positive added to the stack about every two days. Not exactly an "upsurge". As a matter of fact, if judged by our county alone (dumb I know, but you get my point) - pretty much any kind of intervention would be deemed unnecessary. Why? I have no idea, but I'm grateful. It took the better part of a month to double from 35 to 70 cases, and seems to have been leveling off as of late - taking longer and longer to add cases, even though testing is getting more widespread and faster. |
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Post by svart on Apr 23, 2020 14:23:29 GMT -6
Unfortunately his "statistics" don't agree with the actual facts.
To begin with, it's not "the same everywhere". Perhaps in a country like Israel in might seem that way, but Israel is a very small country that has many factors that set it apart from most other countries.
In the USA the latest infectious trend appears to be that more sparsely populated areas are experiencing a definite upsurge that has been less obvious to casual observers because of the way such illnesses spread in areas of lower population density. However when those areas finally DO get hit they get hit much harder than more developed areas because they just don't have the hospital capacity to deal with it - most of the medical facilities are "community hospitals" with little staff and less equipment - a majority don't have proper intensive care wards or isolation facilities because it has always been assumed that patients needing such things would get medevaced to larger, better equipped facilities in urban areas. And community hospitals generally don't have the required specialists on staff - in normal times they might get a visiting specialist in once every week or two on a rotating basis. So, watching the numbers and looking at the maps indicates that the more rural areas are about to get a peak - they just didn't get it yet because it takes longer to get there.
You could have said you didn't read the paper. It would have saved you some time rather than typing a bunch of nonsense. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 14:25:49 GMT -6
You actually BELIEVE that?
And I thought I was paranoid......
There's a big differencer between, for exampl;e, the restricyions on air travel - terrorism is unfortunately still a great threat in this world and the ONLY reason that the attacks against passenger planes have mostly stopped (they still happen occasionally in parts of the world that don't have our restrictions) is that we have these pesky rules in place that prevent it from happening. So there is, in fact, a lefetimate reason to mai9ntain those rules.
The Covid restrictions aren't like that an present an inconvenience to those in power as they do to regular citizens - think about it - what POSSIBLE reason would the shadowy "powers that be" have for maintaing face masks and restrictions on gatherings? The face mask thing "lasting forever" thing is TOTALLY wacko and restrictions on gatherings areas inconvenients for the political people of ALL stripes as they are for, for example, musicians.
What you are saying makes no sense.
TSA has not once caught an attempt at an attack. Most security experts agree that it was the worst possible way to combat potential terrorism, but our government needed to * show* the people that they were doing something to make them feel safe. Doing something by making them stand in lines that are routinely longer and more compact an area than inside a plane, right next to the receptacles that you're supposed to drop your *possibly* explosive shampoo and stuff in.. You know, for your safety, because if the idea was to kill as many people as possible, the easiest way to do so would be go after the security lines at a major airport. And, Patriot act was supposed to expire, and instead they renewed it because they enjoy the avoidance of law that it gives them. You think certain lawmakers are going to give up some of the powers they've given themselves? You're the one who doesn't have any sense if you think that they'll let those powers go after this.. Gee, you're fast! you got to that before I even had a chance to edit typos! Way to go!
You claim that TSA has never caught an attempt at an attack. You have NO WAY of knowing that (unless you work in the upper levels at TSA, which I doubt.) Do you actually believe that they publicize every time they snag someone? Do your local cops make headlines every time they bust a burglar or a dope dealer? In big cities most MURDERS don't even make the paper (unless the deceased is somebody famous, of course.) Why would you think that TSA behaves any differently in this respect than any other cops?
It's also clear that you know even less about liquid explosives than I do. I suggest that you Google the subject - you'll learn quite a bit in a fairly short time. Onew of the things I learned in my short research into the subject the other night is that many of the potential explosives would not be smuggled onto the plane in the final explosive form, they would be smuggled on by more than one person with separate components which would then be mixed on the plane.
But don't take my word for it, Google is your friend. Just enter the words "liquid explosive" in the search bar. You'll get an eyefull.
As far as The Patriot Act goes, you and I are more ot less in agreement. But if you think that there's ANY resemblance between the Patriot act and the Covid quarantine measures,. well, lets just say that you have a comprehension problem and leave it at that. There is NO MOTIVATION for any government to retain provisions that don't have a useful (to the government) result and actually INTERFERE with many of its goals.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 14:45:41 GMT -6
Many places in the country are reporting around 70% of all confirmed Covid cases are in old folk's homes and the numbers there are really frightening. Here, the 70% is in folks under age 65. Not the other way around. Go figure. I guess stats aren't accurate if applied in a one size fits all methodology. Well, that indicates one of two things - either your area has a demographic that differs from most of the country (which is quite possible) OR the incidence in nursing homes in your area is being grossly underreported. We know that the latter is true (for various reasons) in certain many areas. Some facilities have been interntionally underreporting for business and/or PR related reasons. Some states and researchers have not been canvassing nursing homes and assisted care facilities effectively. In fact, many areas have not been reporting figures accurately AT ALL - that's one of the criticisms of the famous Santa Clara survey - the selection process was flawed in that senior citizens and minorities were GROSSLY underrepresented. (Most people in nursing homes don't do Facebook, d'oh!)
I'm inclined to suspect that your area has a reporting problem. It seems the most likely explanation.
Of course then there's the problem of asymptomatic carriers.
We need test kits. We need test kits out in the field, accessible to everyone, not locked up in some government warehouse. And we need both kinds - the ones that detect viral infection and the ones that detect antibodies.
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Post by svart on Apr 23, 2020 14:50:37 GMT -6
TSA has not once caught an attempt at an attack. Most security experts agree that it was the worst possible way to combat potential terrorism, but our government needed to * show* the people that they were doing something to make them feel safe. Doing something by making them stand in lines that are routinely longer and more compact an area than inside a plane, right next to the receptacles that you're supposed to drop your *possibly* explosive shampoo and stuff in.. You know, for your safety, because if the idea was to kill as many people as possible, the easiest way to do so would be go after the security lines at a major airport. And, Patriot act was supposed to expire, and instead they renewed it because they enjoy the avoidance of law that it gives them. You think certain lawmakers are going to give up some of the powers they've given themselves? You're the one who doesn't have any sense if you think that they'll let those powers go after this.. Gee, you're fast! you got to that before I even had a chance to edit typos! Way to go!
You claim that TSA has never caught an attempt at an attack. You have NO WAY of knowing that (unless you work in the upper levels at TSA, which I doubt.) Do you actually believe that they publicize every time they snag someone? Do your local cops make headlines every time they bust a burglar or a dope dealer? In big cities most MURDERS don't even make the paper (unless the deceased is somebody famous, of course.) Why would you think that TSA behaves any differently in this respect than any other cops?
It's also clear that you know even less about liquid explosives than I do. I suggest that you Google the subject - you'll learn quite a bit in a fairly short time. Onew of the things I learned in my short research into the subject the other night is that many of the potential explosives would not be smuggled onto the plane in the final explosive form, they would be smuggled on by more than one person with separate components which would then be mixed on the plane.
But don't take my word for it, Google is your friend. Just enter the words "liquid explosive" in the search bar. You'll get an eyefull.
As far as The Patriot Act goes, you and I are more ot less in agreement. But if you think that there's ANY resemblance between the Patriot act and the Covid quarantine measures,. well, lets just say that you have a comprehension problem and leave it at that. There is NO MOTIVATION for any government to retain provisions that don't have a useful (to the government) result and actually INTERFERE with many of its goals.
Meh. For the sake of discussion, my father worked as police chief for a municipality near the Atlanta airport, and worked with TSA, GBI, FBI, etc regularly. Some of the stories about TSA would make your hair stand up. 100% failure rates to catch fake bombs in security lines, plain clothes police/feds actively able to get past security doors and plant fake devices at key areas in the airport, non-working scanners that are there to make it look like there's more stringent testing going on, etc. TSA agents stealing millions of dollars worth of stuff, trafficking humans, animals, drugs, you name it, TSA facilitates the worst of it. It's 100% theater and a farce of a "safety" administration. Police secretly laugh at it, the feds think it's a joke, politicians love it because it makes people feel safe. Ever wonder why the travel color condition never drops? It was never designed to. It was designed to keep people feeling like they need someone to protect them, and government happily gives it to them in return for less pushback against tracking and surveillance. But hey, it's convinced you that there's some shadowy operation catching badguys behind the scenes and not telling us. There ain't. And yeah I made some explosives in my basement as a teenager. It worked. I wouldn't dare look that stuff up now unless you wanted to be on a watchlist. |
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