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Post by theshea on Mar 12, 2020 1:36:43 GMT -6
i never warmed up to the crunchiness of a sm57 or md421, the superdetailed sound of a LCD ain't always right ... sometimes i just want to record the guitar amp AS IT SOUNDS IN THE ROOM IN NATURE. a ribbon mic some 30cm away gets me the closest with the trick to put it where the white noise comes out the cone but whats your trick to get the most natural/ intheroomsounding sound? what mic? two mics? what distance? thanks.
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Post by askomiko on Mar 12, 2020 2:13:43 GMT -6
Beyerdynamic 201 near the speaker and stereo pair SDCs three feet away. Super natural feel, imo usable only for very sparse arrangement.
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Post by bricejchandler on Mar 12, 2020 3:59:29 GMT -6
I tend to use a three mic setup if the room is nice. 57 on the grill for that midrange bite, a ribbon a foot or 2 away for a more natural overall tone, usually a coles or an AEA, and finally a u87 in Omni out in the room usually bussed to one track during the tracking phase. I'll sometimes pan the Room opposite of the main mics to give it some width while retaining the punch and focus of the mains. I have tried recording stereo rooms but for the stuff I do it doesn't seem really necessary. In a bad sounding room, where an amp can sound really boxy from a distance, I would rather close mic the amp with a ribbon ( like an M160 or N22) combined with a 57 and then either add some room with a nice sounding IR, or sometimes a stereo delay.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 8:46:06 GMT -6
Finding that an SM7 and/or sE VR1 is giving me back what I'm hearing in the room pretty consistently these days. I lean on those 2 most sessions.
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Post by Ward on Mar 12, 2020 8:47:21 GMT -6
Royer 121, hands down. But PLEASE not 'in' the speaker. Try it 12" or 30cm back, whichever works best for you. The badge side is the dark side, so if you turn it around, try flipping the phase on your preamp
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Post by EmRR on Mar 12, 2020 8:51:29 GMT -6
I don’t do it often, but if I’m chasing what you describe it tends to be a ribbon 2 feet out and a shotgun across the room.
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Post by gwlee7 on Mar 12, 2020 9:05:35 GMT -6
Finding that an SM7 and/or sE VR1 is giving me back what I'm hearing in the room pretty consistently these days. I lean on those 2 most sessions. I love the sE voodoo 1. I have two of them and they just deliver wherever I put them. I typically use one by itself on my Princeton Reverb. It’s a very underrated mic.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 12, 2020 10:28:55 GMT -6
A couple of quick thoughts on this, first off what your talking about is as much about position as the mic. Distance and getting off axis are going to give the sound of distance and off axis!!. Often the best way to get what you want is to use multiple mics, but you have to be careful finding mics that work together, I would lean towards ribbons and un-hyped LDC’s. Now for what you don’t really want to hear, often the best way to make it all work is to have some of the sound you don’t want is to have one of the usual suspects up close to mix in a bit of sort of a reverse of how one uses room mics. When using an array of dissimilar mics you always have to be careful of your dynamic and time based effects are working with a sum of different phase and frequency responses gel.
Getting what you want can be a lot of work and small changes in position, level and pan can make a huge difference, make mental notes of how what changes do because what works today may not tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 13:23:25 GMT -6
Fostex printed ribbons are underrated. Especially the M88. Cad D82 is a tank cheap mic too.
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Post by Ward on Mar 12, 2020 16:38:20 GMT -6
Fostex printed ribbons are underrated. Especially the M88. Cad D82 is a tank cheap mic too. yes, that is true. I have one of of those and love it on guitars/amps and two vocalists together.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 12, 2020 16:42:44 GMT -6
AxeFX
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 12, 2020 17:09:14 GMT -6
I tried several on Reggie Young and ended up with, much to my surprise, an 87.
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Post by stormymondays on Mar 12, 2020 17:19:02 GMT -6
Stager SR-2N. It’s magical. It really is the sound of the amp in the room and it doesn’t require high precision positioning.
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Post by Ward on Mar 12, 2020 17:24:44 GMT -6
Stager SR-2N. It’s magical. It really is the sound of the amp in the room and it doesn’t require high precision positioning. Makes perfect sense to me, after spending a little time with one.
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Post by theshea on Mar 13, 2020 2:13:26 GMT -6
Stager SR-2N. It’s magical. It really is the sound of the amp in the room and it doesn’t require high precision positioning. so where do you put it? 30-45cm pointing where?
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Post by stormymondays on Mar 13, 2020 3:03:37 GMT -6
Usually 15-20 cm away pointing “wherever”. Dustcap of the cone is the standard spot but it’s not the end of the world if it points to another spot. Lately it’s been a Fender Tweed Deluxe which is not beamy, so that could be a part of the ease of use.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 4:07:22 GMT -6
Finding that an SM7 and/or sE VR1 is giving me back what I'm hearing in the room pretty consistently these days. I lean on those 2 most sessions. I love the sE voodoo 1. I have two of them and they just deliver wherever I put them. I typically use one by itself on my Princeton Reverb. It’s a very underrated mic. Agreed. My favorite amp mics for sure.
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Post by matt@IAA on Mar 13, 2020 7:18:35 GMT -6
Best recording of an AC30 I ever got was with an old Reslo ribbon mic. Maybe 2' away. That was some kind of magic that day.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 13, 2020 8:49:09 GMT -6
Beyer M201 at around 1'-18", at the edge of the cone but pointed roughly toward the center, to taste.Or EV RE10/11/15/16, same general position but maybe a bit closer in. This series of EVs have no proximity effect.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 17, 2020 10:24:30 GMT -6
Apex 205 (modded of course) at a few feet out, with an EV CO4 aligned with it, blend in for brightness.
Also KM184 up close. Try it if you have one, it's a great sound.
Also been using a Beyer MPC 67 boundary mic about 10 inches or more in front of the speaker. It "looks up" at a slight angle toward the speaker. A surprising option when you look at the prices on these (30 dollars or less.)
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 17, 2020 14:28:46 GMT -6
One thing to remember is that the closer the mic gets to the speaker the less "natural" the sound will be because the mic won't be picking up the full balanced output of the cone if it's close.
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Post by nomatic on Mar 17, 2020 15:41:29 GMT -6
The Stager SR-2N is killer.... Also the TUL mic from South Africa is stellar although I have only listened and don't own one yet.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 17, 2020 16:13:53 GMT -6
The Stager SR-2N is killer.... Also the TUL mic from South Africa is stellar although I have only listened and don't own one yet. Isn't the TUL the mic that they insist must be used pointed right at the middle of the dome (which makes me suspicious as hell*)?
The topic is about a "natural sounding" mic for electric guitar - how do you get a "natural sound" by micing the most UNnatural sounding spot on the speaker cone?
Have you heard any clips that were NOT posted by the company themselves? Have you heard the mic in person?
And isn't that the one that Bonamassa is supposed to be endorsing? (Which is neither here nor there...)
There was recently a thread on that over at The Purple Place. I was skeptical then and I'm skeptical now - AFAIK there's lots of hype from the company (which does not post any real technical info) and pretty much nothing from any reputable 3rd party source. I'd really like to see some real info - I just don't trust sales lit without backing/corroborating info from neutral sources - preferably sources that I know.
EDIT: And the Stager isn't even shipping yet - it's available next month. How do you get independent info on a product that isn't shipping?
*- given that I pretty much NEVER mic a speaker right on the center of the dust cap because it just doesn't sound like the full sound of the speaker...
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Post by nomatic on Mar 17, 2020 17:04:44 GMT -6
1.The Mic uses a novel filtering scheme to achieve its performance. 2 The samples came from another engineer i respect and sounded great ....3 I own the Tul F47 and it is killer! 4 The Stager has been shipping for a couple years and I own a pair. 5. your tone is Dickish.....
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 17, 2020 20:39:50 GMT -6
1.The Mic uses a novel filtering scheme to achieve its performance. 2 The samples came from another engineer i respect and sounded great ....3 I own the Tul F47 and it is killer! 4 The Stager has been shipping for a couple years and I own a pair. 5. your tone is Dickish..... Sorry. Being locked down, bored, and grumpy doesn't do much for my attitude...
My info on the Stager was apparently out of date. Dealers should update their websites.
I don't want to argue about TUL without having a sample to evaluate, but to me, with decades of learning to critically read ad copy there's stuff all over their website that sets my alarm bells ringing, not the least being that I have been unable to find spec sheets/pages on any of their microphones, just lots of claims. If there are specs on that wesite either I'm going blind or they're done an excellent job of hiding them.
And I'm sure that the samples sounded great - why would they furnish samples that didn't? It still doesn't tell you anything real about the microphone.
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