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Post by m03 on Feb 8, 2020 14:10:38 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on Feb 8, 2020 15:52:56 GMT -6
tsk tsk
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Post by drbill on Feb 9, 2020 18:13:18 GMT -6
Interns? Personal Errands? That's like peanut butter and jelly. They just go together naturally don't they? And is "retaliation" against the law? if so, half the country should be in prison shouldn't they? And the other half should be seeking damages, no?? PS - I freely admit I didn't read the article....  |
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 9, 2020 20:11:12 GMT -6
Interns? Personal Errands? That's like peanut butter and jelly. They just go together naturally don't they? And is "retaliation" against the law? if so, half the country should be in prison shouldn't they? And the other half should be seeking damages, no?? PS - I freely admit I didn't read the article.... Retaliation against whistleblowers is, in fact, illegal. Reporting infractions of labor law to the authorities is in fact whistleblowing.
The question is whether this (very common) use of interns is, in fact, an infraction. This court seems to think so.
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Post by drbill on Feb 9, 2020 22:21:32 GMT -6
Interns and their legality seems a lot like weed to me. Nobody can really decide if it's good, bad, legal or illegal. Different states / counties / cities / etc. have different takes on both. I figure if you're a young buck looking for fairness, someone to value your work ethic, and reward you accordingly, you'd run as fast as you can from an internship. But hey, that's just my perspective. If someone decides to take an intern gig, I think they should be there to learn. And part of that may be picking up someones kids from school, or picking up dinner, or making coffee as it is all a part of the employers existence. The intern might as well learn all that while they are honing in on the dream career.... |
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Post by matt on Feb 10, 2020 12:39:02 GMT -6
I worked many moons ago as an IT intern for the state of Arizona. They were very careful to describe the responsibilities of my position in great detail, and told me why: regulations. Yes, it was a state government job and I get the difference between it and industries like music production, but when I left, my manager said something very interesting- if you take an internship anywhere else don't forget that the regulations apply everywhere, regardless of the employer or profession. They wanted to hire me but couldn't. Why? Regulations. Funny how that works.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 10, 2020 13:19:52 GMT -6
I remember hearing from some friends about a certain producer/engineer in Athens GA who would banish interns from the studio to run errands, mow the grass (or find some grass), etc when he got annoyed with them. The friends didn't see the intern ever do much of anything by way of assisting in the production. I'm sure it's quite common even though out of bounds. Was the gig described as 'personal assistant'? Could be. In this biz there's lots of vague moving parts, and participating in that to a degree is part of gaining experience, but there has to be a balance.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 10, 2020 19:36:00 GMT -6
I would never do something beneath my dignity. John McBride or not.
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Post by donr on Feb 20, 2020 16:53:01 GMT -6
Is there an internship for tea boy/girl?
The state is involved in entirely too much of life. Whose idea was that?
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Post by chessparov on Feb 24, 2020 22:03:55 GMT -6
Is there an internship for tea boy/girl? Fortune Cookie say... "Stay out of Hot Water". Chris |
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Post by keymod on Feb 25, 2020 17:33:40 GMT -6
Intern used to be work for college credit in a position that had something to do with your college major, which is how it should be. Now "Interns" are demanding to be paid.
Apprentice is being paid to learn a particular skill. As an Electrician,I had to clean the tools and wash/stock the vans, clean the office and make lunch runs - all while keeping my eyes and ears open and my mouth shut.
It's all part of learning how to run a successful business.
Audio Engineering isn't a regulated career where one needs to be licensed, so it's kind of anything goes.
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 25, 2020 18:39:50 GMT -6
I know nothing about this particular case, and studio owners should treat their interns with respect...BUT...I really think its the responsibility of the intern to not get screwed. And if you do get screwed you just walk away, with a smile on your face and say "thank you", because even getting screwed is an important lesson in this (or any) business. I mean you have to have the common sense, and the initiative to not let yourself get taken advantage of.
My first internship lasted 3 days. I spent all of those 3 days scrubbing hard wood floors and cleaning toilets. This was at a well known, small but "major" facility in Los Angeles. I realized right away that the owner was a dick and that I would never get anywhere there. The other intern at the studio had been there 3 years! 3 fucking years doing janitorial work and nothing else, with no pay. And you know what...that was his fault. He was an arrogant schmuck who liked to act like he was better than me because he was "in charge". HA! I thanked them for the opportunity, quite, and very soon after found a paying gig doing actual studio work.
If you have the balls to sue someone for having to do personal errands as an intern, you should've had the balls the walk away before any damage was done.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 28, 2020 10:50:27 GMT -6
As Maya Angelou said, "When people show you who they really are, believe them the first time." Now - I'm not saying that about this situation - I don't know the McBrides...but I haven't always been the best at following this advice in the past. I try to live by it now.
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Post by bowie on Mar 1, 2020 15:32:12 GMT -6
While I think that's just the way things have worked, I do think it's time for change.
When I was doing freelance work, I recall a studio owner instructing me that the interns (who had just gone through a $35,000 recording course) were not to handle any mics. And, when I got hungry, to let the interns know what I needed. I felt absolutely terrible for these kids and tried to impart as much info as I could on them as it was clear they were being robbed of any education during their internship.
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Post by sean on Mar 1, 2020 23:34:15 GMT -6
I think when it was reported they gave an intern a gun and told him to drive to their house and check on a possible home invasion was what set the lawsuit off.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 2, 2020 14:53:00 GMT -6
That's also a bit hard to believe.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 2, 2020 16:08:01 GMT -6
Absolutely. I would have only LOANED the intern , that gun! Chris |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 2, 2020 16:38:34 GMT -6
Why would you not just send the police?
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Post by matt on Mar 2, 2020 16:55:24 GMT -6
Why would you not just send the police? Perhaps due to the presence of, um, certain materials that would preclude the desirability of having the police conduct a search of the home. |
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Post by donr on Mar 3, 2020 1:16:00 GMT -6
You'd want to trust somebody with a job request like that. An intern that later filed a OEO complaint about it?
In the apprentice days of studios, just from my observation as a paying client of studios in the day, most entry people were glad to be there, and if you had aptitude, you advanced into recording with the studio's clients at some reasonable point. When I started recorded at the NY Record Plant in the day, Jimmy Iovine was an assistant engineer. Now he's a billionaire.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 3, 2020 9:25:01 GMT -6
If I had been handed a gun by the studio owner when I was an intern I would have thought it was the coolest thing ever. You know, as long as it came with some cool sun glasses and blazer.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Mar 3, 2020 17:13:53 GMT -6
The gun thing sounds like a joke to me. Would make a very nice Cohen brothers movie
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Post by keymod on Mar 4, 2020 5:03:40 GMT -6
While I think that's just the way things have worked, I do think it's time for change. When I was doing freelance work, I recall a studio owner instructing me that the interns (who had just gone through a $35,000 recording course) were not to handle any mics. And, when I got hungry, to let the interns know what I needed. I felt absolutely terrible for these kids and tried to impart as much info as I could on them as it was clear they were being robbed of any education during their internship. The real crooks are the schools charging so much money with promises of careers upon "graduation" |
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Post by bowie on Mar 4, 2020 18:36:14 GMT -6
While I think that's just the way things have worked, I do think it's time for change. When I was doing freelance work, I recall a studio owner instructing me that the interns (who had just gone through a $35,000 recording course) were not to handle any mics. And, when I got hungry, to let the interns know what I needed. I felt absolutely terrible for these kids and tried to impart as much info as I could on them as it was clear they were being robbed of any education during their internship. The real crooks are the schools charging so much money with promises of careers upon "graduation" Yea, I meet a lot of graduates from the local recording school, often working at Guitar Center, and a couple of them have delivered food to my home and when they see the mic stands and acoustic treatment, they mention that they graduated from the recording school. I think that's the sate of education now though. In the US at least. Kids are being given this idea that you are entitled to be anything you want, as long as you go to school for it. I was fortunate in that my college professors told my family to give me some money for gear and let me start working rather than paying for a recording education. |
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 4, 2020 21:04:17 GMT -6
The real crooks are the schools charging so much money with promises of careers upon "graduation" Yea, I meet a lot of graduates from the local recording school, often working at Guitar Center, and a couple of them have delivered food to my home and when they see the mic stands and acoustic treatment, they mention that they graduated from the recording school. I think that's the sate of education now though. In the US at least. Kids are being given this idea that you are entitled to be anything you want, as long as you go to school for it. I was fortunate in that my college professors told my family to give me some money for gear and let me start working rather than paying for a recording education. You were fortunate. My mother fought me tooth and nail, didn't even give up when I was a 40 year old adult.
She wanted me to be a novelist, I guess it was more "respectable".
Can you imagine any career in the 1970s-'80s that had less even less chance of getting somewhere than being a novelist? Especially one with little talent for characterization, due to being largely kept away from social events in his school days?
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Post by drumsound on Mar 26, 2020 11:06:46 GMT -6
I can't believe the gun story. Errands and such, sure.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 26, 2020 14:17:14 GMT -6
Must have been loaded, when they did it!
Chris
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Post by drbill on Mar 26, 2020 15:06:14 GMT -6
I really think it boils down to what KIND of gun they gave the intern. .22, no thanks. Fully auto AK - point me in the right direction!!! |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 26, 2020 19:53:37 GMT -6
If I'm going with a gun, it's a pump action 12 gauge. Accept no substitutes.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 26, 2020 19:55:44 GMT -6
The real crooks are the schools charging so much money with promises of careers upon "graduation" Yea, I meet a lot of graduates from the local recording school, often working at Guitar Center, and a couple of them have delivered food to my home and when they see the mic stands and acoustic treatment, they mention that they graduated from the recording school. I think that's the sate of education now though. In the US at least. Kids are being given this idea that you are entitled to be anything you want, as long as you go to school for it. I was fortunate in that my college professors told my family to give me some money for gear and let me start working rather than paying for a recording education. There was a year or two somewhere last decade where most of my studio inquiries were people looking for internships or schools wanting to know what my hiring prospects might be in the future. Vastly outnumbered recording clients. |
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