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Post by indiehouse on Feb 8, 2020 12:20:08 GMT -6
What are some typical session musician rates? I know this is going to vary wildly depending on location and player. I’m looking into hiring my first session musician, a cellist. He’s asking 150 for composing and 100/hr for recording.
Does this seem reasonable or high? He’s good.
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Post by jamiesego on Feb 8, 2020 12:31:38 GMT -6
That’s probably about right if he has a legit resume. You could maybe try to negotiate a flat rate for composing. I generally pay around that much per player on a per song basis but usually it doesn’t take more than an hour per song.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 8, 2020 12:44:58 GMT -6
That’s probably about right if he has a legit resume. You could maybe try to negotiate a flat rate for composing. I generally pay around that much per player on a per song basis but usually it doesn’t take more than an hour per song. Doh. Yeah, it’s a flat 150 for a song under 5 min, two rounds of edits.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2020 13:06:51 GMT -6
What genre? Usually I can hire a Nashville guy off the card for $100-150 per song. Or you could hire them for $150 ish for 3 hour session. On the card it ends up being like $220 per session if they don’t require leader pay.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 8, 2020 13:50:44 GMT -6
What genre? Usually I can hire a Nashville guy off the card for $100-150 per song. Or you could hire them for $150 ish for 3 hour session. On the card it ends up being like $220 per session if they don’t require leader pay. Hmmm...I’m not sure what that means. This is my first rodeo with a session player. He’s asking a flat 150 for composing and 100/hr for recording, either at his home studio or a studio of my choice. Sounds like it’d be cheaper to have him track himself at home, but I don’t know his setup. I suppose I could pay for a studio or track him myself at my place. It’s a sparse acoustic arrangement, indie/pop/rock genre, I guess. I’m wanting cello for about a minute and a half of a 3 minute song. If tracking doesn’t take more than an hour, I’m looking at 250 total, unless I pay for a studio as well. Is that fair? High? Should I look for a remote player?
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Post by stormymondays on Feb 8, 2020 14:05:35 GMT -6
I've sent you a PM, I have an excellent player and we could work remotely. By the way, I wonder if there should be a section in the forum for this kind of projects? I can do quite a bit of remote work (I'll be doing a drum track for Wiz as well) and it might be interesting to know what the collective RGO braintrust has to offer. Maybe it could be a members-only section? Just thinking out loud here.
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Post by sean on Feb 8, 2020 14:12:45 GMT -6
I’m surprised he’s asking an arrangement fee if it’s just solo cello.
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Post by gwlee7 on Feb 8, 2020 14:19:57 GMT -6
I've sent you a PM, I have an excellent player and we could work remotely. By the way, I wonder if there should be a section in the forum for this kind of projects? I can do quite a bit of remote work (I'll be doing a drum track for Wiz as well) and it might be interesting to know what the collective RGO braintrust has to offer. Maybe it could be a members-only section? Just thinking out loud here. I think this could help some of us self producers out so every lead break or extra rhythm part doesn’t sound like “me”.
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Post by lpedrum on Feb 8, 2020 15:06:59 GMT -6
What genre? Usually I can hire a Nashville guy off the card for $100-150 per song. Or you could hire them for $150 ish for 3 hour session. On the card it ends up being like $220 per session if they don’t require leader pay. Hmmm...I’m not sure what that means. This is my first rodeo with a session player. He’s asking a flat 150 for composing and 100/hr for recording, either at his home studio or a studio of my choice. Sounds like it’d be cheaper to have him track himself at home, but I don’t know his setup. I suppose I could pay for a studio or track him myself at my place. It’s a sparse acoustic arrangement, indie/pop/rock genre, I guess. I’m wanting cello for about a minute and a half of a 3 minute song. If tracking doesn’t take more than an hour, I’m looking at 250 total, unless I pay for a studio as well. Is that fair? High? Should I look for a remote player? A few thoughts -- string players can often have a different outlook (read not always based on common practice) on studio work than rhythm section players. First, I've NEVER hired someone who charged me for "composing" unless their writing string or horn section charts. Pop music arrangements are in reality "composed" in part by the musicians. That's why great sessions players get hired--they bring that skill to the table. Two, if you're new at this DEFINITELY be in the room overseeing the session. The likelihood of you liking a strangers contributions sight unseen are 50/50 at best. Third, don't assume an hour is all it will take if it's important that you love the final result. I would never book less than two hours for this sort of thing because you want time to try different ideas, possible double lines etc. Lastly, make sure this cellist is well versed in pop music and how it's crafted, and not simply a classical musician that needs written parts.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2020 15:23:43 GMT -6
I've sent you a PM, I have an excellent player and we could work remotely. By the way, I wonder if there should be a section in the forum for this kind of projects? I can do quite a bit of remote work (I'll be doing a drum track for Wiz as well) and it might be interesting to know what the collective RGO braintrust has to offer. Maybe it could be a members-only section? Just thinking out loud here. Thought about this...Maybe limit it to those with 50+ posts? Or a 15% fee to me
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 8, 2020 15:25:18 GMT -6
I've sent you a PM, I have an excellent player and we could work remotely. By the way, I wonder if there should be a section in the forum for this kind of projects? I can do quite a bit of remote work (I'll be doing a drum track for Wiz as well) and it might be interesting to know what the collective RGO braintrust has to offer. Maybe it could be a members-only section? Just thinking out loud here. I think this could help some of us self producers out so every lead break or extra rhythm part doesn’t sound like “me”. Seriously, though...that's true. Just make it easier for people. I know lots of times I don't want to pay $150 for something like a B3 part that I could kinda do myself - but I know someone else could do better. What should I call it? Overdub request?
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 8, 2020 15:44:07 GMT -6
When dealing with orchestral players many require a chart. Sounds like he’s charging to chart it out for himself and then for the recording.
As a studio vocalist I charge different rates for different projects, but as a vocalist I’m usually providing the focal of a piece. Obviously BG Vox is less. Actually it’s closer to what the Cellist is charging.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 8, 2020 15:57:20 GMT -6
When dealing with orchestral players many require a chart. Sounds like he’s charging to chart it out for himself and then for the recording. True on the first part, though in my experience here if they need a chart they damn well can't write one themselves, they usually can't do anything by ear at all. If they can do ear, they don't need a chart. I recently got quotes from a local cellist and regional fiddle player, one was $200/day, the other $350 but with some travel involved. Hourly guys have tended to land $50-80/hr. Not too many to pick from around here, nothing organized really. No union that I'm aware of.
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Post by drbill on Feb 8, 2020 16:02:34 GMT -6
I’m surprised he’s asking an arrangement fee if it’s just solo cello. Exactly. Composition? Arranging? If he's playing by himself, I would expect to only pay a session player's fee. I do everything work for hire, and buy out whatever creative aspect a player may bring to the table. If a player can only play the notes I have written down on a piece of paper, chances are really good they won't get called again. What's the point of that? there are sessions where I WANT them to play what's written, but this doesn't sound like one of those times.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 8, 2020 16:35:26 GMT -6
Hmmm...I’m not sure what that means. This is my first rodeo with a session player. He’s asking a flat 150 for composing and 100/hr for recording, either at his home studio or a studio of my choice. Sounds like it’d be cheaper to have him track himself at home, but I don’t know his setup. I suppose I could pay for a studio or track him myself at my place. It’s a sparse acoustic arrangement, indie/pop/rock genre, I guess. I’m wanting cello for about a minute and a half of a 3 minute song. If tracking doesn’t take more than an hour, I’m looking at 250 total, unless I pay for a studio as well. Is that fair? High? Should I look for a remote player? A few thoughts -- string players can often have a different outlook (read not always based on common practice) on studio work than rhythm section players. First, I've NEVER hired someone who charged me for "composing" unless their writing string or horn section charts. Pop music arrangements are in reality "composed" in part by the musicians. That's why great sessions players get hired--they bring that skill to the table. Two, if you're new at this DEFINITELY be in the room overseeing the session. The likelihood of you liking a strangers contributions sight unseen are 50/50 at best. Third, don't assume an hour is all it will take if it's important that you love the final result. I would never book less than two hours for this sort of thing because you want time to try different ideas, possible double lines etc. Lastly, make sure this cellist is well versed in pop music and how it's crafted, and not simply a classical musician that needs written parts. Sounds like he will write the parts in Garage band, send them to me for feedback, etc. Then when we are happy with the parts, we go to the tracking stage. His home studio setup is an SM57/AT3035 into a Presonus. I might have him over to my place instead, or I got a buddy with a studio who offeeed to track for free (he owes me one). Though it’d be easier to work remotely with someone.
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Post by wiz on Feb 8, 2020 18:00:02 GMT -6
I have done guitar and vocals stuff like this...For non strangers...you know forum guys ..I usually make it a flat 50usd
W
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Post by Guitar on Feb 8, 2020 18:21:52 GMT -6
Someone I asked in town said something like "Give them $100 or so." But I didn't get any more detail about time, charts, or anything. I'd like to get a violin and a flute or two here sometime for a particular song.
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Post by Ward on Feb 8, 2020 18:28:20 GMT -6
Some of the best fiddle and steel players will track for $75 a song. I charge the same for guitar tracks (single track on a song 75, multiple 150-200). More tracks, more discount. Backing vocals are usually another story as it is a lot more singing to the lead vocal or band and burying your own sound, shadowing the tone/timbre of the vocalist. "pinch hitting" is a specialty and can be quite time consuming.
A lot of times it comes down to what someone is capable of and what you really need.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 8, 2020 18:54:46 GMT -6
What genre? Usually I can hire a Nashville guy off the card for $100-150 per song. Or you could hire them for $150 ish for 3 hour session. On the card it ends up being like $220 per session if they don’t require leader pay. Hmmm...I’m not sure what that means. This is my first rodeo with a session player. He’s asking a flat 150 for composing and 100/hr for recording, either at his home studio or a studio of my choice. Sounds like it’d be cheaper to have him track himself at home, but I don’t know his setup. I suppose I could pay for a studio or track him myself at my place. It’s a sparse acoustic arrangement, indie/pop/rock genre, I guess. I’m wanting cello for about a minute and a half of a 3 minute song. If tracking doesn’t take more than an hour, I’m looking at 250 total, unless I pay for a studio as well. Is that fair? High? Should I look for a remote player? On the card= through the musician’s union. Off the card is not.
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Post by nick8801 on Feb 9, 2020 7:35:10 GMT -6
I like the idea of setting up a thread on the forum for this kind of thing. I belong to that Soundbetter.com site and I think they take a 5% commission. I think everyone here brings something different and has a unique pool of musicians to work with. That being said, for friends I usually do 100 a track, non-friends 150. If someone wants me for a day with a bunch of tunes I usually get between 350 and 400. If I have to compose I like to do it ahead of time. Nothing worse than trying to compose in the studio as a trumpet player. You can burn out the chops pretty quickly that way, plus it’s a waste of studio time.
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Post by M57 on Feb 9, 2020 7:40:45 GMT -6
So for something like a cello in an indie rock context, I would think there might be a few unique or unusual variables that would impact the negotiated price. drbill touched on a number of them, and related to his comments I would be asking myself, what am I giving the player to work with? Did you write out a chart ..or are you just providing them with a recording for reference? If a chart, are you just providing the player with changes or perhaps are you looking for specific melodies or phrases/licks? ..and how prominent do you envision the part? I don't have much in the way of experience with this so I'm really interested in this thread. I have hired a remote drummer who charges extra to chart the tune, and also an extra fee per toy.. shaker, triangle, etc. and includes two revisions. It's worked out great. I've been really happy. I provide a chart, and I've never needed more than one revision. Johnkenn , Maybe we're not there yet, but I agree that a forum for off the card musicians looking to connect remotely might be a good idea at some point in the future.
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Post by stormymondays on Feb 9, 2020 8:58:26 GMT -6
In my case, I’m lucky to work with a very talented string player that arranges on the spot. I direct him a little bit and we usually arrive very quickly to the finished track.
If it was a remote track I suppose I’d need one revision or two. I think it all comes down to finding the right players I guess.
I also have a horn player that creates full horn section arrangements in his head while he lays down his track. That is a sight to behold!
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 9, 2020 10:00:55 GMT -6
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Post by Guitar on Feb 9, 2020 10:04:38 GMT -6
that bridge has a great lift feeling to it, love it when the guitar doubles to two different parts. honestly I think you could get a whole orchestral thing going in almost this entire song, maybe start it halfway through the bridge. maybe just a string quartet. maybe sample libraries, maybe human beings, I guess those are the options.
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 9, 2020 10:44:36 GMT -6
that bridge has a great lift feeling to it, love it when the guitar doubles to two different parts. honestly I think you could get a whole orchestral thing going in almost this entire song, maybe start it halfway through the bridge. maybe just a string quartet. maybe sample libraries, maybe human beings, I guess those are the options. I had considered violin parts instead of cello. And I do have a sweet Spitfire string VI library, but I've spent a lot of time and energy writing/re-writing and recording/re-recording the guitar parts, so I'm ok with spending some money to get live players. I'm just inexperienced at doing so.
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