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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 7, 2020 16:23:37 GMT -6
Needed a second optical cable, so I got a new one...just hooked it up...and I SWEAR things sound much wider. I'm not trying to promote that some cables sound better than others - I'm just wondering if maybe the cable I had had some issues or something. But I guess a digital cable doesn't have differing levels of qualities - they either work or not, right? Is there some kind've thing like "packet loss" they can suffer? (I have zero idea, so don't make fun of me lol)
It probably just goes to show how fallible the human listening experience is...today I would swear it sounds better...probably just in my head. Guess I could switch back and forth...but that would take getting up lol.
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Post by drbill on Feb 7, 2020 16:28:31 GMT -6
How many margaritas today?  But seriously, cables CAN make a difference. The only real way to tell is to actually stand up and do a reach around and swap em out. Get another margarita and sit back down to listen. Or better yet - have your margarita assistant be mixing your drinks, and swapping cables so you don't HAVE to stand up!! That's the way to do a proper A/B IMO. |
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Post by reddirt on Feb 7, 2020 16:37:15 GMT -6
Does your wife know about Margaret?đ
Nothing to add cable wise, if it feels like it's better, leave it in ; other than that, get a second person to assist in blind tests.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by matt on Feb 7, 2020 16:40:24 GMT -6
Needed a second optical cable, so I got a new one...just hooked it up...and I SWEAR things sound much wider. It's possible. Optical cables are finicky and subject to damage and degradation of the ends. All fiberoptic cables have a polished face at the end of each fiber inside the connector and they must be made very precisely in order to work correctly. Back when this technology was new I worked at a datacenter and cable quality was an issue. Many cables connecting servers together would "drop packets" and require replacement. It was a nightmare at times because it was difficult to isolate which one(s) were bad. |
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Post by drbill on Feb 7, 2020 16:43:34 GMT -6
I dropped a packet once..... There was a cop on the other side of the street though, so I just pretended nothing happened and kept walking....
<<sorry John / Matt, couldn't resist>>
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Post by tkaitkai on Feb 7, 2020 16:47:11 GMT -6
I've been curious about this lately, too.
There was an old post on here claiming that an AD16x sounded better as an actual interface as opposed to ADAT -> Apollo.
My Aurora is going ADAT out to my Apollo, so I'm super curious to try one of the USB cards and see if it makes a difference. In theory, it shouldn't, but I'm a firm believer in whatever sounds better, regardless of the reasons why.
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Post by svart on Feb 7, 2020 17:01:33 GMT -6
The cheap cables can have poorly polished ends, or made of cheap plastic that cracks easily if you twist or bend them, which can lead to micro reflections which might fuzzy things up a little if the reflections are causing a lot of logic triggers on the receivers.
Otherwise, no, an optical cable can't cause audio to sound different. The receivers are only looking for a transition from low to high, or vice versa. They ignore things like brightness.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 7, 2020 17:13:13 GMT -6
Have definitely heard differences comparing AES/SPIDF RCA/optical. Errors can and will happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 17:35:27 GMT -6
I hate ADAT cables. Theyâre so easy to damage and you often donât realize you damaged them until you get a new one or the sound is way off. Iâm glad the Alesis gear is gone and 8 channel ADAT pres are drying up in the market. The network cable protocols are so much easier and donât need all the word clock cables. I hope they replace everything above the budget level.
Iâve also heard about the actual ADAT and Toslink SPDIF hardware receivers introducing jitter. That might be an issue too. Everything Iâve ever owned or used sounded better over RCA SPDIF (if transformer-coupled) and XLR AES than optical.
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Post by ragan on Feb 7, 2020 17:36:45 GMT -6
Wait. Iâm no expert here at all (just taking my first Networking course this quarter) but how are things like cable reliability and connector polish going to affect sonics? Iâm trying to imagine how âwhoops, some packets were lost/corrupted in transitâ can result in something like stereo image being changed.
Not saying it canât happen (because I donât know) but Iâd like to know how.
Isnât there parity checking? At least on power-up? Wouldnât corrupted/lost packets just result in dropouts or noise?
Again, I donât know, just interested.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 7, 2020 17:58:19 GMT -6
I don't have any answers but my CD source (piped into SPDIF) sounds different than my USB source on the same converter.
If anyone wants to get technical on me I can handle it. I don't know if it's losses in the cables, jitter, or what. But I've been hearing it for a while.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 7, 2020 18:00:35 GMT -6
Optical cables are notoriously finicky. Twenty years ago or more I was a beta tester for some very high end cable companies. It made no sense to me and I had no idea why, but one particular optical cable just sounded better all around than the others, especially regarding intelligibility of dialogue for home theater. Unfortunately the damn thing cost $99, when I could get one for $10 at Radio Shack. It broke anyway, just moving the little suckers can affect them they're so fragile. I'd say you aren't imagining things and just keep that cable and be happy.
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Post by ragan on Feb 7, 2020 18:26:01 GMT -6
I totally get why theyâre finicky and prone to breakage. I donât get why a given cable could cause a stream of 1s and 0s to be altered in such a way as to become a different stream of 1s and 0s that sounds different.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 7, 2020 18:40:42 GMT -6
I totally get why theyâre finicky and prone to breakage. I donât get why a given cable could cause a stream of 1s and 0s to be altered in such a way as to become a different stream of 1s and 0s that sounds different. The amount of jitter and error correction. Comparing digital transfer methods in a mastering room once years ago, I was more freaked out by the difference in transfer protocol sound (errors) that I was by a choice of different DA converter sound. It was also more obvious than changes in dither type on any particular path. |
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Post by mike on Feb 7, 2020 18:44:57 GMT -6
I would expect most to disagree with me and I know the math of 1's and 0's add up on paper to a different conclusion than my personal experience, which so far has been that everything effects sound.
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Post by matt on Feb 7, 2020 18:46:07 GMT -6
I totally get why theyâre finicky and prone to breakage. I donât get why a given cable could cause a stream of 1s and 0s to be altered in such a way as to become a different stream of 1s and 0s that sounds different. I would speculate that if enough 1s and 0s are dropped there would be some kind of signal degradation that would be audible- distortion, loss of frequency response, etc. Significant loss may result in a collapse of the stereo field similar to what happens with low-rez mp3s. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Feb 7, 2020 19:00:03 GMT -6
I totally get why theyâre finicky and prone to breakage. I donât get why a given cable could cause a stream of 1s and 0s to be altered in such a way as to become a different stream of 1s and 0s that sounds different. The amount of jitter and error correction. Comparing digital transfer methods in a mastering room once years ago, I was more freaked out by the difference in transfer protocol sound (errors) that I was by a choice of different DA converter sound. It was also more obvious than changes in dither type on any particular path. This is super fascinating. Given this, what would be your preference between switching protocols vs. using higher end cabling with something like ADAT or SPDIF? |
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Post by svart on Feb 7, 2020 19:11:32 GMT -6
I totally get why theyâre finicky and prone to breakage. I donât get why a given cable could cause a stream of 1s and 0s to be altered in such a way as to become a different stream of 1s and 0s that sounds different. Spdif/AES are biphase encoded. This means that the bits are also the clock. The receiver will buffer the incoming signal, and lock a pll to the recovered clock to produce a secondary wordclock or system clock for the converters to utilize. Any missed bits means missed clock references and will allow the pll to start slightly "walking" away from the locked frequency. Do this often enough and you'll have a jittery system reference clock.. If you have a fractured cable you'll have internal reflections that might trigger the Schmitt inputs multiple times per edge and cause multiple error bits which will freak out the recovery plls. |
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Post by notneeson on Feb 7, 2020 19:36:58 GMT -6
Weâve all fooled ourselves tweaking that bypassed EQ, right?
Itâs not just me?
Please, donât just be me.
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Post by svart on Feb 7, 2020 19:39:47 GMT -6
Weâve all fooled ourselves tweaking that bypassed EQ, right? Itâs not just me? Please, donât just be me. I did it the other day. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 7, 2020 19:41:27 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 7, 2020 20:05:26 GMT -6
Even without any margaritas, I think, perhaps, tragically, that I want my cables passing hip waves ? |
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Post by teejay on Feb 7, 2020 20:55:13 GMT -6
Weâve all fooled ourselves tweaking that bypassed EQ, right? Itâs not just me? Please, donât just be me. Wait...you can bypass EQ? |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 7, 2020 22:31:53 GMT -6
I totally get why theyâre finicky and prone to breakage. I donât get why a given cable could cause a stream of 1s and 0s to be altered in such a way as to become a different stream of 1s and 0s that sounds different. The amount of jitter and error correction. Comparing digital transfer methods in a mastering room once years ago, I was more freaked out by the difference in transfer protocol sound (errors) that I was by a choice of different DA converter sound. It was also more obvious than changes in dither type on any particular path. What emRR said. Ragan, it's never just ones and zeros although it seems it should be. Anyone that heard the $99 cable I mentioned compared to a basic one agreed, they could hear things much more clearly, especially voice. On a couple of Tom Waits' tracks, I could hear certain words clearly that with the other cables sounded like he was just mumbling something. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Feb 7, 2020 23:03:08 GMT -6
A lot has to do with how the cable mates with the sender and receiver, Glass works best with Glass and plastic with plastic. A certain cable vendor started the whole it acts like analog cable sending a square wave thing, I remember the rep trying to sell his cables to one of my clients, well the client was a PHD in physics at UW Madison who happened to hold a couple of Pattens in fiber optics and shot the guys whole thing down in terms that went way over my head. |
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