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Post by chessparov on Feb 22, 2020 11:49:03 GMT -6
That great you saw them! I'm making a general study vocally of all these influences, including the ABB (Gregg's/Dickie's/Warren's/Dan's vocals) Chris
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2020 12:31:32 GMT -6
That great you saw them! I'm making a general study vocally of all these influences, including the ABB (Gregg's/Dickie's/Warren's/Dan's vocals) Chris Gregg was IMO one of the greatest blues / rock singers of all time. and streaming isn't doing much for him (or the brothers) at this time.... RIP Gregg. Streaming = Feel Like I Been Tied To The Whipping Post.....
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Post by gwlee7 on Feb 22, 2020 14:52:29 GMT -6
That great you saw them! I'm making a general study vocally of all these influences, including the ABB (Gregg's/Dickie's/Warren's/Dan's vocals) Chris Gregg was IMO one of the greatest blues / rock singers of all time. and streaming isn't doing much for him (or the brothers) at this time.... RIP Gregg. Streaming = Feel Like I Been Tied To The Whipping Post..... Or “dreams I’ll never see”
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Post by chessparov on Feb 22, 2020 14:59:07 GMT -6
Honestly guys, although I already knew he was a great singer (fine B3 and acoustic guitar player too)...
I didn't realize HOW great of a singer he was, until I re-discovered the ABB again.
I think I'm learning the most Country-Blues singing licks from him-along with Dan Penn & also Delaney. Chris
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Post by yotonic on Feb 22, 2020 19:04:37 GMT -6
Cut in NYC. Listen to this vocal.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 22, 2020 19:13:44 GMT -6
Wow. Thanks, Chris
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Post by gwlee7 on Feb 22, 2020 21:00:34 GMT -6
You should get a good copy of Gregg’s first solo record “Laid Back” if you really want to study his style. I like this even better than his work with the Bros.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 23, 2020 22:00:42 GMT -6
OK guys, can't resist asking...
How much $$ "rebound", for those "in the trenches" (Artists/Bands/Songwriters) might we realistically look forward to-eventually?
Thanks, Chris
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Feb 24, 2020 12:26:27 GMT -6
We're really back in the pre-1968 singles world of the music business. Back then record sales were a loss-leader and the money was all in live shows.
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Post by drbill on Feb 24, 2020 14:38:38 GMT -6
We're really back in the pre-1968 singles world of the music business. Back then record sales were a loss-leader and the money was all in live shows. Except in pre-1968 we didn't have a TV in every room of the house, 500+ channels, a car for every 16 y/o+ family member, VOD, AOD, the Internet, on-line Gaming, 3+ computers in every house, smart phones, and a myriad of other distractions. I don't know very many who go out and pay to see live shows anymore. They are the exception, not the rule. IMO, we are a universe away from pre-1968.
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Post by swafford on Feb 24, 2020 15:02:16 GMT -6
We're really back in the pre-1968 singles world of the music business. Back then record sales were a loss-leader and the money was all in live shows. Except in pre-1968 we didn't have a TV in every room of the house, 500+ channels, a car for every 16 y/o+ family member, VOD, AOD, the Internet, on-line Gaming, 3+ computers in every house, smart phones, and a myriad of other distractions. I don't know very many who go out and pay to see live shows anymore. They are the exception, not the rule. IMO, we are a universe away from pre-1968. I think this sort of depends on where you live. There are lots of live venues in Cincinnati and almost all of the ones featuring original music are paying guarantees with no cover. Sure very few bands are making a living, but the live scene is not that much different than the one I left 10-15 years ago and ath the club lever at least, vastly superior to the one I came up in in the 80's. The problem I see for original bands making music at the club level is the amount of bands that exist and the decentralized nature of music distribution and promotion. I doubt you are going to see break through bands achieving large audiences like White Stripes or Black Keys anymore, building wide spread attention through touring, radio play and world of mouth. Which is not to say the kinds of scenes that produced those bands don't exist and aren't thriving.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 24, 2020 20:27:10 GMT -6
Hmm... Maybe Kingston circa early 70's, is even more like today-for most artists/bands. (Pie is smaller) Chris
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Post by yotonic on Feb 24, 2020 21:00:12 GMT -6
Except in pre-1968 we didn't have a TV in every room of the house, 500+ channels, a car for every 16 y/o+ family member, VOD, AOD, the Internet, on-line Gaming, 3+ computers in every house, smart phones, and a myriad of other distractions. I don't know very many who go out and pay to see live shows anymore. They are the exception, not the rule. IMO, we are a universe away from pre-1968. I think this sort of depends on where you live. There are lots of live venues in Cincinnati and almost all of the ones featuring original music are paying guarantees with no cover. Sure very few bands are making a living, but the live scene is not that much different than the one I left 10-15 years ago and ath the club lever at least, vastly superior to the one I came up in in the 80's. The problem I see for original bands making music at the club level is the amount of bands that exist and the decentralized nature of music distribution and promotion. I doubt you are going to see break through bands achieving large audiences like White Stripes or Black Keys anymore, building wide spread attention through touring, radio play and world of mouth. Which is not to say the kinds of scenes that produced those bands don't exist and aren't thriving. I am in the Concert Venue business and as an owner what we are witnessing is that customers aren't coming out for smaller bands anymore. If you are pulling a trailer behind your van forget it, you won't even put 50 people in a room. If you are driving a sprinter you had better be the opener playing for free or $500. And if you are the headliner you better have 4+ records and a massive following on social media or it's gonna be hard for you to sell 500 tickets. Most small 300 cap rooms don't want to book bands anymore that can't sell out the room. Kids and the market in general are moving more and more towards spending their ticket dollars on big name acts. As an owner I would rather spend $20-$35k on a band that will sell out my 1000 cap room than on an up and coming act that costs me $7,500-$10k and can't break 350 tickets. This is especially true in country music where the Agents are increasingly trying to fast track young Artists to $10k guarantees who have maybe one or two charting singles. I hate to say it but the live music business is moving more and more towards consolidation and the big ticket sellers. That's what we have witnessed in the last 5 years. And unfortunately it benefits the Live Nations and not the independent venues. If the so called "music business" is moving more and more towards the live business then there is going to be far less opportunity and booking avails for smaller bands. They will be playing in local bars with no cover because concert clubs can't count on people coming out anymore for anything that isn't a big deal.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 24, 2020 21:24:24 GMT -6
House Concerts then! (like in L.A.) Chris
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Post by swafford on Feb 25, 2020 2:14:23 GMT -6
House Concerts then! (like in L.A.) Chris Lot's of artists that use to regularly play ticketed venues now pretty much live on house concerts across the United States. Those that maintained and leveraged email and social media accounts do OK. Those that never paid much attention to that part of the business do not as good. There's a huge range of music venues from local bars and clubs (I have a tendency to use those terms interchangeably) to ticketed venues (which can also be a local bar or club, lots of crossover there.) I have no doubt that venues that rely on ticket sales continue to decline in revenue due to a wide range of options for entertaining ourselves - I'm pretty sure those numbers have been trending down for quite a while. I also have no doubt in small and medium cities across the US there are bars/clubs that may or may not have a cover that are providing a place to play and a guarantee for thriving local music scenes and small DIY touring bands and performers. Both these things can be true.
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Post by swafford on Feb 25, 2020 4:41:30 GMT -6
I hate to say it but the live music business is moving more and more towards consolidation and the big ticket sellers. That's what we have witnessed in the last 5 years. And unfortunately it benefits the Live Nations and not the independent venues. If the so called "music business" is moving more and more towards the live business then there is going to be far less opportunity and booking avails for smaller bands. They will be playing in local bars with no cover because concert clubs can't count on people coming out anymore for anything that isn't a big deal. Honestly man, this seems like the trend for the last 20 years or more, maybe just accelerating. I heard the same concerns in the early 90s when I was the go to local guy for Neiderlander doing openers for the acts they were "forced" (their words!) to take if they wanted the larger acts that made the $ to do the payroll. They did pay me 4x what I made doing local clubs, but the guy always talked about the "bath he was about to take that night." (Sorry, I usethe word club interchangeably with bar since, in my experience, there is a lot of crossover in that business. I guess the real difference is between ticketed or not.) "They will be playing in local bars with no cover because concert clubs can't count on people coming out anymore for anything that isn't a big deal." And this has been happening for 10 years or more. I have a good buddy who's name I won't use because I don't want to embarrass him, but he's gone from large ticket venues to small ticketed clubs to to bar/clubs with a guarantee to house concerts in the last 10 years; from a top tier management to indie booking agent to doing it himself, which he is mostly terrible at. Why is he terrible at it? His stuff is still highly regarded and he sold out his LP reissue of his 90s classic. Mostly he is terrible because he got snatched up in the early 90s post-Nirvana and never really had to figure it out for himself. Never had to string bookings to get himself across the country and back. Never had to cold call a radio station. Never suffered the endless rejection of labels to build a thick skin that the acid rain that IS the music business rolls off. He can't get a handle on how to leverage his huge Facebook following and email list. Won't listen to good, time tested DIY advice. He's pretty much railing at the world that's gone past while, as much as it sucks, the real world keeps going forward. Which makes me sad, because even post 60 years old, his songwriting is amazing. A deep and bottomless well of nuance and beauty.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 25, 2020 11:12:40 GMT -6
Sorry to hear this. Is Europe still a lot better for touring, other things being equal? Chris
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Post by seawell on Feb 25, 2020 13:13:08 GMT -6
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Post by chessparov on Feb 25, 2020 13:35:02 GMT -6
And Minimum Wage for many musicians. "The amoeba outlives the tiger"- From Shibumi, by Trevanian. Chris
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 25, 2020 13:50:05 GMT -6
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Post by professorplum on Feb 26, 2020 14:08:05 GMT -6
- The way royalties are paid to artists is detrimental to non-mainstream music: streaming services use “per rata” or “platform-centric” payout distribution model, based on the global share of audio streaming (Drake alone takes a large part of it for example), as opposed to the user-centric approach which directs a share of each users’ subscription to the artists they have This is really the only point worth discussing if we agree that streaming is not going away for a long time (or possibly ever), and the best chance anyone has at making money is lobbying the streaming companies to pay more per stream. Unless payouts are changed to user-centric streams (stream of 1 artist's song goes directly to that artist), then the only people who will make substantial money will always be the Adeles and Drakes of the world. Currently you can be totally independent, put out an amazing record and persuade people to listen to it millions of times and still make almost nothing, since most of those streams of your album are actually paying Taylor Swifts huge payout and other pop stars...
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Post by seawell on Mar 9, 2020 16:30:58 GMT -6
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