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Post by M57 on Jan 5, 2020 8:28:46 GMT -6
Minimally, I'm looking for a basic box with a big knob and mute/mono buttons. The Palmer Audio Monicon and the Behringer Model1 tick all the boxes for $100 and $70 respectively. On the other hand, is there any reason I shouldn't pick up something like the Mackie Big Knob 2x2 with a lot more functionality (which I might use down the line) for a lot less money at $70? Obviously, at this level, price isn't really the issue; sonic performance and build quality are the major factors.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Jan 5, 2020 11:11:57 GMT -6
When it comes to monitoring I wouldn't want to compromise on quality. I'd spend a bit more and get a Drawmer CMC2 or something in that range.
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Post by sirthought on Jan 5, 2020 11:27:46 GMT -6
Depends on how many speaker setups you have and how you're monitoring. Since you said "minimal" you likely will get by just fine with one of the cheap ones. I do believe the passive attenuators can wear out after some usage. Maybe two-three years with a Mackie and it might not perform like new. For that reason, if you really need basic it might be worth going even cheaper. If you don't want to replace things again and again, it might be worth looking at something more advanced. But no sense in spending money on features that don't really assist your setup. I recently heard people saying nice things about Nobsound Little Bear for $40. www.amazon.com/dp/B07255VHZS/?coliid=I1EMX4NWFO9TV0&colid=50S5YOP910GB&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
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Post by stormymondays on Jan 5, 2020 11:31:02 GMT -6
The Drawmer MC2.1 is fantastic. There’s a reason these things are expensive-ish. Also, top customer service from them!
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Post by EmRR on Jan 5, 2020 11:52:20 GMT -6
I'm intrigued by the autoformer and transformer volume controls some hi-fi people like. Have heard one mastering guy speak favorably.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 5, 2020 11:57:48 GMT -6
The Drawmer MC2.1 is fantastic. There’s a reason these things are expensive-ish. Also, top customer service from them! I really love mine. The main volume assembly has gone bad twice now though. I need to get a 3rd one somehow to keep it going. The good news is the part is $20 and it's effortless to replace, only minimal hand tools required, no soldering.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 5, 2020 12:03:48 GMT -6
I currently own the Behringer Monitor 1 and the Radial SAT2.
The main difference is the facing of the big knob. On the Behringer it's facing "UP" and on the Radial it's facing straight ahead. Depending on your application one or the other might be preferred. The Radial also has a DIM control which can be very useful sometimes.
Neither one is good enough for my main studio setup so I use a Drawmer MC2.1. All of these passive pot-in-a-box things are going to color the high end due to impedance loading. More transparent options are generally significantly more expensive. The Audient Nero looks pretty good too, I haven't tried one though. Priced similar to the Drawmer.
The JBL/SM Pro M Patch 2 thing I wouldn't recommend, mine had to be trashed after a while. Mackie looks good if you need I/O routing. Or you could use a separate routing box, for example a Coleman line selector or something similar. I built my own with a rotary switch.
For my B-room I use $20 chinese RCA selectors, unbalanced. They work fine and they haven't broken yet, which is kind of incredible. The SAT2 sits on top of the RCA switch and this is my little "mini stack" "preamp" thingy.
You may or may not need a headphone amp as well, either in the monitor controllor or as a separate box. People talk about the JDS Atom but I haven't tried one yet. I find that the Drawmer MC2.1 headphone amp sounds pretty dang decent. But I wouldn't be surprised if it could be surpassed by a separate component. DIY Recording Equipment has kits for a really simple one, that I would like to try, too.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 5, 2020 12:42:41 GMT -6
I use a Coleman monitor controller that I found used a while back for like $500. It’s literally my favorite piece of gear in the studio. I wouldn’t underestimate this piece of the monitor chain
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Post by stormymondays on Jan 5, 2020 12:43:36 GMT -6
The Drawmer MC2.1 is fantastic. There’s a reason these things are expensive-ish. Also, top customer service from them! I really love mine. The main volume assembly has gone bad twice now though. I need to get a 3rd one somehow to keep it going. The good news is the part is $20 and it's effortless to replace, only minimal hand tools required, no soldering. I got a replacement for free from Drawmer. They even shipped it for free from the UK to Spain.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 5, 2020 12:45:29 GMT -6
I use a Coleman monitor controller that I found used a while back for like $500. It’s literally my favorite piece of gear in the studio. I wouldn’t underestimate this piece of the monitor chain As far as I know, Glen's volume controls are resistor ladders, H pads, U pads, or something like that, with constant high impedance, on a rotary switch like a Grayhill or something. That is the "right" way to do a passive volume control. There is a company called Goldpoint that sells small versions of this type of thing.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 5, 2020 12:46:03 GMT -6
I really love mine. The main volume assembly has gone bad twice now though. I need to get a 3rd one somehow to keep it going. The good news is the part is $20 and it's effortless to replace, only minimal hand tools required, no soldering. I got a replacement for free from Drawmer. They even shipped it for free from the UK to Spain. I need to get on their case about it. They didn't respond to my last email.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 5, 2020 13:03:07 GMT -6
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Post by M57 on Jan 5, 2020 15:16:54 GMT -6
Yeah, I figured some of you would recommend going active. It's probably good advice for most, but I don't use my speakers a lot. They're just cheap M-Audios. I mix with headphones mostly. I'm saving up for some 'real' monitors so at this point I'm more likely to use the speakers to practice working out parts than anything else. Also it's a footprint thing, and forward facing might be the best option. I figure go inexpensive for now. Little spent, little lost. If I ever get those Focal Shapes, I'll drop some real money for a quality solution.
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Post by mattbroiler on Jan 5, 2020 17:02:43 GMT -6
I just picked up a JBL Nano Patch+ for $40 on Reverb I think they go for around $60 new it does a good job for the price and matches up nicely with my JBL powered monitors jblpro.com/en/products/nano-patch-plus
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 5, 2020 20:30:57 GMT -6
I would compare active to passive first. The gear on both ends can affect which will sound better to a degree that surprised me.
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Post by nnajar on Jan 6, 2020 10:45:17 GMT -6
using a gold point here very happily. If I needed more features I would build the soundskulptor OR get an Eldred audio Grendel.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 6, 2020 18:30:27 GMT -6
Minimally, I'm looking for a basic box with a big knob and mute/mono buttons. The Palmer Audio Monicon and the Behringer Model1 tick all the boxes for $100 and $70 respectively. On the other hand, is there any reason I shouldn't pick up something like the Mackie Big Knob 2x2 with a lot more functionality (which I might use down the line) for a lot less money at $70? Obviously, at this level, price isn't really the issue; sonic performance and build quality are the major factors. Try to get a used TC BMC2 digtal controlled monitor section.... no LR issues or other BS and you have the option to upgrade the converter later. I love mine and I fear the day it may stops working. Got mine in a sale 250 instead of 650... Great thing inside works the DA of the TC 6000 reverb.
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Post by Omicron9 on Jan 7, 2020 11:21:28 GMT -6
I have a NanoPatch that I've had for several years, back before JBL bought them. Can't think of the company brand name (I'm away from the studio at the moment), but looks exactly like the JBL, except that it lacks the JBL logo. Never an issue and it's in daily use. I also have a Mackie Big Knob (the older ones) that has also been around for years. Never a problem and it's also in daily use. I use the Big Knob as a headphone amp when tracking; plenty powerful for driving headphones, plus the beauty of Mute and Mono switches. I don't know anything about the current Big Knobs, but the old model is pretty tankesque; all steel chassis, all knobs are metal, pushbuttons are rubber (or something rubbery), IEC power cable instead of a wall-wart; no plastic on the unit at all. I'm not going to claim anything about its sound quality (which is surprisingly good) and it's not in the signal path of printing to tape (or disk as the case may be; I'm dating myself here), but as for build quality, I have no complaints and it's really solid.
Speaking of wall warts, I just can't take a piece of gear seriously if it has one. It just screams cheap to me, and if that adaptor goes down in a session, what are you gonna do? IEC cables are ubiquitous and everywhere, so never a problem. Before you start flaming me, that's just my little humble and likely worthless opinion; I don't expect anyone else to concur, but I had to say it because I won't buy anything with an adaptor. Again just to reiterate: one person's opinion and preferences and not to step on anyone's toes.
Headphonish regards, -09
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Post by Guitar on Jan 7, 2020 12:00:48 GMT -6
I have a NanoPatch that I've had for several years, back before JBL bought them. Can't think of the company brand name (I'm away from the studio at the moment), but looks exactly like the JBL, except that it lacks the JBL logo. Never an issue and it's in daily use. I also have a Mackie Big Knob (the older ones) that has also been around for years. Never a problem and it's also in daily use. I use the Big Knob as a headphone amp when tracking; plenty powerful for driving headphones, plus the beauty of Mute and Mono switches. I don't know anything about the current Big Knobs, but the old model is pretty tankesque; all steel chassis, all knobs are metal, pushbuttons are rubber (or something rubbery), IEC power cable instead of a wall-wart; no plastic on the unit at all. I'm not going to claim anything about its sound quality (which is surprisingly good) and it's not in the signal path of printing to tape (or disk as the case may be; I'm dating myself here), but as for build quality, I have no complaints and it's really solid. Speaking of wall warts, I just can't take a piece of gear seriously if it has one. It just screams cheap to me, and if that adaptor goes down in a session, what are you gonna do? IEC cables are ubiquitous and everywhere, so never a problem. Before you start flaming me, that's just my little humble and likely worthless opinion; I don't expect anyone else to concur, but I had to say it because I won't buy anything with an adaptor. Again just to reiterate: one person's opinion and preferences and not to step on anyone's toes. Headphonish regards, -09 The brand is SM Pro. That was my first monitor controller and I used it for years. I believe it ran off of a wall wart, or more specifically, a "line lump." The power is only used for LED's and the headphone amps, the routing and level control are passive. They made pretty good gear. I still use my SM Pro 6 channel headphone amp for drum tracking, it gets loud. After maybe 5 or 7 years I had to throw the M Patch in the trash. The switches were unrepairable and the pot was getting weird. But that's a pretty good lifespan for a $150 or so product, or whatever it was. When I tested the Emotiva DC-1, which used to be talked about here, I thought something was wrong since it had so much more treble on the volume pot than the SM Pro did. Turns out I was learning the lesson of how low impedance, high load passive pot in a box monitor controllers color the sound. Maybe svart can explain why that type of monitor control has limitations, I can't really remember now. As far as I understand, a simple potentiometer is not "enough" to make a high impedance, low load passive attenuator. But it is one of the most inexpensive ways to control levels, which is why they are so common. The Emotiva DC-1 used a digitally controlled resistor ladder IC to attenuate volume. It was almost a "high end" solution except for the fact that the encoders were made out of plastic shafts and broke down in only a few years. That design has potential, if someone would do it with more durable components. It sounded good, and transparent, though. One of these days I'm just going to buy a Grayhill switch and build something, it's on the list.
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Post by Omicron9 on Jan 7, 2020 12:22:27 GMT -6
Thanks, monkeyxxx; yes, my NanoPatch is the SM Pro. It's entirely passive; no wall-wart. Still working!
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Post by Guitar on Jan 7, 2020 12:35:35 GMT -6
Thanks, monkeyxxx; yes, my NanoPatch is the SM Pro. It's entirely passive; no wall-wart. Still working! Oh, gotcha. I was using the M Patch Pro which is their bigger one. Nano patch does look cool. I almost got that one for my little mobile rig but the Behringer Monitor 1 somehow took precedence, I like the big metal knob on that thing, and the price. Also the Monitor 1 has a mono button which is not found on the Nano Patches.
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Post by Omicron9 on Jan 7, 2020 12:45:09 GMT -6
Thanks, monkeyxxx; yes, my NanoPatch is the SM Pro. It's entirely passive; no wall-wart. Still working! Oh, gotcha. I was using the M Patch Pro which is their bigger one. Nano patch does look cool. I almost got that one for my little mobile rig but the Behringer Monitor 1 somehow took precedence, I like the big metal knob on that thing, and the price. Also the Monitor 1 has a mono button which is not found on the Nano Patches. Yeah, I wish it had a mono switch, but aside from that, it's a pretty cool little unit.
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Post by aremos on Jan 7, 2020 23:03:38 GMT -6
2400 Audio Imperium Monitor Controller. Anyone check this one out?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 8, 2020 10:00:27 GMT -6
I would compare active to passive first. The gear on both ends can affect which will sound better to a degree that surprised me. ^^ This !!! The great beard of audio knowledge sums up my first thoughts, but let me expand a bit. Don’t fall into the simple topology trap, there are great passive and active controllers, there are also crappy ones of both types. Passive will most likely be the most sensitive to what they are driving so always keep that in mind. Don’t even look at a inexpensive controller that lacks a balance control, cheap pots especially stepped cheap pots can track very differently so you will find yourself reaching for the balance control constantly if you very the gain. Don’t make any judgments about any controller until you have played with the gain staging, especially with a a passive box. Speaking of gain staging, you better really love the sound of your interface with a passive because it just became the primary gain stage if you go the passive route. Before buying any monitor controller go over the routing in detail to make sure it really meets your needs. If you use a sub really study it, a sub and multiple pairs of speakers really, really, really study it. In fact I wouldn’t even consider buying a controller I couldn’t return no questions asked ( yeah I broke my own rule when I bought the Martinsound, but I knew the routing inside out plus it was one of those situations where the price was to good not to, the shipping was more than the controller and I fing love the remote). Man this thread reminds me I have a Martinsound controller I really want to see what JW can eek out of. I think Jim is going to get most of 2020’s gear budget.
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Post by zmagosmon on Jan 17, 2020 0:00:26 GMT -6
Highly recommend, among most transparent units out there...https://2400audio.com/#section-products
Best Zmago
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