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Post by brenta on Jan 3, 2020 14:49:10 GMT -6
What’s your yearly HDX rental fee now that they’ve pushed everyone to subscription? I think my buddy’s HDX dues are about $800. Re: solo button I just mean that I’d be paying a significant amount of money to have PT include something incredibly basic (handling delay compensation). HDX is more than just delay comp. It's a powerful system that takes a lot of the load off your comp, but I do get your point. I don't do the subscription. I don't like upgrading my OS or PT version every time there's a minuscule change. I wait it out and upgrade all at once. Usually every 3 years or so. I just bought a new PT Ultimate HDX subscription when I upgraded my drives, vid card and OS. I think it was around $700 or so for the new license, but I'm going to sell my old license, and I'll net back a few hundred. My Mac / PT guy handles all that stuff for me. Yeah, it's kind of a pain, but IMO so worth it. And I agree - if the price on this is in line with their other offerings, I'll be grabbing one too. You got a perpetual Pro Tools Ultimate license for $700? The prices I see are $2600.00 for the perpetual license or $80 a month for the subscription. And of course that doesn't include any of the hardware. So for me to make the jump to HDX would cost several thousand dollars, or more, depending how much DSP and I/O I went with. I understand it's probably worth it for you, but for someone like me or Ragan it would be a foolish way to allocate studio money. All of the features of HDX/Ultimate I either don't need or I've found cheaper/better solutions for, like UAD. If I was mixing movies it would be a different story, but for recording/mixing/mastering bands I can't think of any features it would give me besides solving a couple delay compensation bugs.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 3, 2020 18:08:47 GMT -6
have you tried not using it(or anything) as just a direct output and then bring it back in on a separate channel? As in not using it as a hardware insert? So an aux channel out and an Audio channel(so you can print the effect when done) back in. Some times that works better. I have in the past but it's been dramatically off because the input side doesn't even try to compensate (because it doesn't have any reason to think that signal would be delayed by DSP induced latency or DAW buffer). So instead of not quite right delay compensation you have no delay compensation. Does it work differently for you? What DAW? I haven't used native in years but last time I did it did delay compensation for hardware. It was just a ton and could barely do more than one insert back then(PT10 lol) Pyramix though, also insanely expensive, also does not do delay compensation unless you get the DSP version and its not really DSP like HDX either.. have you tried not using it(or anything) as just a direct output and then bring it back in on a separate channel? As in not using it as a hardware insert? So an aux channel out and an Audio channel(so you can print the effect when done) back in. Some times that works better. My experience with PT HD/HDX is that that works worse - compensation wise. The best way is as you initially mentioned. Insert on an Aux return, send signal to it via an aux send on desired channel. Works perfectly here, but again, this is not intersample accurate. Nothing can be. Physics and all. Some hear it, some don't. Also seems signal dependent on whether or not it's "OK" with you. Higher sample rates leave inter-sample latency less. For sure, why I just am on HDX now. OK. Whatever works for you. I'm not paying $800 a year for anything. And HDX is a lot more than a solo button. But again, whatever works (or doesn't) for you. The rest of PT is so great for me, that I'm unwilling to switch to any of the other DAW's. Whatever the cost is (within reason, and I think it's within reason), it's worth it to me. What’s your yearly HDX rental fee now that they’ve pushed everyone to subscription? I think my buddy’s HDX dues are about $800. Re: solo button I just mean that I’d be paying a significant amount of money to have PT include something incredibly basic (handling delay compensation). There are other features that are nice that are in HDX. Like the DSP plugins, clip effects, ect. HDX is more than just delay comp. It's a powerful system that takes a lot of the load off your comp, but I do get your point. I don't do the subscription. I don't like upgrading my OS or PT version every time there's a minuscule change. I wait it out and upgrade all at once. Usually every 3 years or so. I just bought a new PT Ultimate HDX subscription when I upgraded my drives, vid card and OS. I think it was around $700 or so for the new license, but I'm going to sell my old license, and I'll net back a few hundred. My Mac / PT guy handles all that stuff for me. Yeah, it's kind of a pain, but IMO so worth it. And I agree - if the price on this is in line with their other offerings, I'll be grabbing one too. You got a perpetual Pro Tools Ultimate license for $700? The prices I see are $2600.00 for the perpetual license or $80 a month for the subscription. And of course that doesn't include any of the hardware. So for me to make the jump to HDX would cost several thousand dollars, or more, depending how much DSP and I/O I went with. I understand it's probably worth it for you, but for someone like me or Ragan it would be a foolish way to allocate studio money. All of the features of HDX/Ultimate I either don't need or I've found cheaper/better solutions for, like UAD. If I was mixing movies it would be a different story, but for recording/mixing/mastering bands I can't think of any features it would give me besides solving a couple delay compensation bugs. No that's what a reinstatement costs. Or costed I should say. Which is no long an option anymore btw drbillYou can still buy a perpetual license for the $2400ish and it comes with a year of support/upgrades. Once that year end date passes. You're done. You no longer get updates. Now it used to be that you could wait and wait and just do a reinstatement for about 800 bucks and you'd get another year of updates and support. This is what drbill used to do. However, now Avid has gotten rid of reinstatement so if you let your support lapse and you still want a perpetual license, your only options are to buy an entire new perpetual license or buy a subscription. If you have a perpetual license and you just renew you support on time, you only pay about 400ish a year and get all the new updates and stuff and keep your perpetual license. They did this to kind of thwart people like drbill that would only upgrade every few years. It made sense to do that and was affordable. Now if drbill does that though he'll have to only upgrade every 6 years or more to get the same cost out of it as he will have to buy an entire new license. Yay Avid business practices...
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Post by drbill on Jan 3, 2020 18:13:54 GMT -6
Who knows what Avid will do in 2 years. They change thing up all over the place when they figure out their clients are ****** and not going to upgrade - or worse, leave. I no longer worry about their shenanigans. I just upgrade when I need to. It's never been a huge expense for me.
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Post by wiz on Jan 3, 2020 18:28:32 GMT -6
raganbite the bullet, go Logic, spend a week watching musictechhelpguy videos on you tube and never look back Cheers Wiz
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Post by Quint on Jan 3, 2020 21:11:29 GMT -6
That's great! I was actually thinking they could probably stuff it into a pedal and save the cost of the 2 space box... They have...Its the WAZA Boss Dimension C. Is this pedal EXACTLY the same circuit as the original Dim D?
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Post by EmRR on Jan 3, 2020 22:26:56 GMT -6
There was a GroupDIY clone version for awhile, rack and 500 series. Same guy made a nice API 550A clone kit for awhile too.
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Post by sirthought on Jan 4, 2020 0:59:09 GMT -6
I guess it's 2U because there are like three or four pedals in there and they have extra connections to blend them all to sound extra sweet. The UAD version is pretty nice. I wonder how much better this could be?
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Post by lpedrum on Jan 4, 2020 2:03:31 GMT -6
They have...Its the WAZA Boss Dimension C. Is this pedal EXACTLY the same circuit as the original Dim D? The new Waza version claims to be both the original Dim C pedal with the four settings of the Dim D added as the Waza bonus. It’s been on my wishlist for a while but this Klark Teknik box may make more sense for me.
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Post by sirthought on Jan 4, 2020 2:28:13 GMT -6
The Boss pedal was out there for years, but it never was the same as the studio rack unit. Would be great to hear them side by side.
For whatever it's worth, TC Electronic put out a chorus pedal that was supposed to be like the old Boss. Klark has the same ownership, so I'm guessing this technology is getting cross departmental. I guess they are going Klark for the newer releases that are analog and TC for digital stuff.
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Post by wlinart on Jan 4, 2020 4:27:33 GMT -6
The Boss pedal was out there for years, but it never was the same as the studio rack unit. Would be great to hear them side by side. For whatever it's worth, TC Electronic put out a chorus pedal that was supposed to be like the old Boss. Klark has the same ownership, so I'm guessing this technology is getting cross departmental. I guess they are going Klark for the newer releases that are analog and TC for digital stuff.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 4, 2020 5:04:41 GMT -6
Ragan, one small daw point, I know you love your familiarity with PT, but that delay comp insert issue is 0 problem in logic. It has a utility I/o insert plug in that does this perfectly with ping built in.
Once I got to know logic (a few months,)I was so glad I left PT behind, plus technically I am saving money each year, so when an interesting new box like this thread’s topic becomes available, I kind of have found money, meaning not sent to avid to buy it’s buggy software that doesn’t have very basic modern recording features, and instead I can have fun spending that money on shiny new gear, or more Christmas presents for the kids : you get the idea!
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Post by Quint on Jan 4, 2020 9:05:07 GMT -6
The Boss pedal was out there for years, but it never was the same as the studio rack unit. Would be great to hear them side by side. For whatever it's worth, TC Electronic put out a chorus pedal that was supposed to be like the old Boss. Klark has the same ownership, so I'm guessing this technology is getting cross departmental. I guess they are going Klark for the newer releases that are analog and TC for digital stuff. This Boss Waza pedal is new though, right? So, even if the older pedal didn't sound like the rack Dim D, I wonder about this new Waza one? Also, if this new rack mount Dim D (or the new Waza pedal, for that matter) are just DSP in a box, I'm out. I already have UAD for that. It would need to be an actual analog circuit to keep me interested. This new rack mount Dim D would be cool, but rack space is running low here and I might get more versatility out of a pedal anyway. I'm still curious what the rack version from Klark will cost though.
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Post by lpedrum on Jan 4, 2020 11:14:27 GMT -6
The Boss Waza pedal is analog. HERE is a Sound on Sound review of the pedal. But if I were to go that route and use the Dimension C for mixing I'd have to buy a second Radial EXTC. So I'm curious about price and sound of the KT unit.
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Post by Quint on Jan 4, 2020 15:06:51 GMT -6
The Boss Waza pedal is analog. HERE is a Sound on Sound review of the pedal. But if I were to go that route and use the Dimension C for mixing I'd have to buy a second Radial EXTC. So I'm curious about price and sound of the KT unit. True. Interfacing with a pedal means more gear to go into it and out of it. So I get the Klark rack approach. But 2u of rack space for something that can fit in a pedal? I know they're going for the "look", but still...
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 4, 2020 15:10:35 GMT -6
The Boss Waza pedal is analog. HERE is a Sound on Sound review of the pedal. But if I were to go that route and use the Dimension C for mixing I'd have to buy a second Radial EXTC. So I'm curious about price and sound of the KT unit. True. Interfacing with a pedal means more gear to go into it and out of it. So I get the Klark rack approach. But 2u of rack space for something that can fit in a pedal? I know they're going for the "look", but still... yeah that's my point. Seems dumb and such a waste of space. You could at least offer 2 units I bet in a 1U chassis.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Jan 6, 2020 1:03:12 GMT -6
In case this hasn’t been mentioned in the thread: ‘The spatial sound processor uses bucket brigade (BBD) technology and a fully analogue signal path to deliver an “authentic reproduction of original analog circuitry”, Klark Teknik says.’
Seems different than the pedals in that case.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,928
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Post by ericn on Jan 6, 2020 10:48:32 GMT -6
If they show it at NAMM, let’s see if somebody can get a photo of the guts! But from what I remember Behringer land was more about writing orders than showing off gear.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 6, 2020 13:04:02 GMT -6
I have in the past but it's been dramatically off because the input side doesn't even try to compensate (because it doesn't have any reason to think that signal would be delayed by DSP induced latency or DAW buffer). So instead of not quite right delay compensation you have no delay compensation. Does it work differently for you? What DAW? I haven't used native in years but last time I did it did delay compensation for hardware. It was just a ton and could barely do more than one insert back then(PT10 lol) Pyramix though, also insanely expensive, also does not do delay compensation unless you get the DSP version and its not really DSP like HDX either.. My experience with PT HD/HDX is that that works worse - compensation wise. The best way is as you initially mentioned. Insert on an Aux return, send signal to it via an aux send on desired channel. Works perfectly here, but again, this is not intersample accurate. Nothing can be. Physics and all. Some hear it, some don't. Also seems signal dependent on whether or not it's "OK" with you. Higher sample rates leave inter-sample latency less. For sure, why I just am on HDX now. What’s your yearly HDX rental fee now that they’ve pushed everyone to subscription? I think my buddy’s HDX dues are about $800. Re: solo button I just mean that I’d be paying a significant amount of money to have PT include something incredibly basic (handling delay compensation). There are other features that are nice that are in HDX. Like the DSP plugins, clip effects, ect. You got a perpetual Pro Tools Ultimate license for $700? The prices I see are $2600.00 for the perpetual license or $80 a month for the subscription. And of course that doesn't include any of the hardware. So for me to make the jump to HDX would cost several thousand dollars, or more, depending how much DSP and I/O I went with. I understand it's probably worth it for you, but for someone like me or Ragan it would be a foolish way to allocate studio money. All of the features of HDX/Ultimate I either don't need or I've found cheaper/better solutions for, like UAD. If I was mixing movies it would be a different story, but for recording/mixing/mastering bands I can't think of any features it would give me besides solving a couple delay compensation bugs. No that's what a reinstatement costs. Or costed I should say. Which is no long an option anymore btw drbill You can still buy a perpetual license for the $2400ish and it comes with a year of support/upgrades. Once that year end date passes. You're done. You no longer get updates. Now it used to be that you could wait and wait and just do a reinstatement for about 800 bucks and you'd get another year of updates and support. This is what drbill used to do. However, now Avid has gotten rid of reinstatement so if you let your support lapse and you still want a perpetual license, your only options are to buy an entire new perpetual license or buy a subscription. If you have a perpetual license and you just renew you support on time, you only pay about 400ish a year and get all the new updates and stuff and keep your perpetual license. They did this to kind of thwart people like drbill that would only upgrade every few years. It made sense to do that and was affordable. Now if drbill does that though he'll have to only upgrade every 6 years or more to get the same cost out of it as he will have to buy an entire new license. Yay Avid business practices... I think that maybe somebody needs to explain the definition of "perpetual" to Avid.
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Post by lpedrum on May 15, 2020 16:11:09 GMT -6
I'm wondering if the BBD-320 release has been slowed by Covid 19. Has anyone heard an update?
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grantb
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by grantb on May 15, 2020 19:19:47 GMT -6
FWIW, the Waza pedal kicks ass. No problems with unbalanced line levels.
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Post by sirthought on May 15, 2020 19:22:50 GMT -6
I don't know, but Thomann prices this unit at $144 and lists 3-4 weeks. That is a crazy affordable.
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Post by sean on May 15, 2020 20:08:18 GMT -6
$144!?! Damn, I’ll be buying one
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Post by lpedrum on May 15, 2020 20:40:21 GMT -6
I don't know, but Thomann prices this unit at $144 and lists 3-4 weeks. That is a crazy affordable. I had to verify that for myself to believe the price. This is not a good time for me to be buying gear but I just may have to find a way. I own a KT2A and love it--real sold build too.
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Post by the other mark williams on May 15, 2020 22:32:12 GMT -6
I don't know, but Thomann prices this unit at $144 and lists 3-4 weeks. That is a crazy affordable. Holy smokes. If true, they will sell a crazy number of these. Most of my guitar pedals cost more than that. That just sounded way more posh than I expected.
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Post by mrholmes on May 16, 2020 2:02:23 GMT -6
My experience with PT HD/HDX is that that works worse - compensation wise. The best way is as you initially mentioned. Insert on an Aux return, send signal to it via an aux send on desired channel. Works perfectly here, but again, this is not intersample accurate. Nothing can be. Physics and all. Some hear it, some don't. Also seems signal dependent on whether or not it's "OK" with you. Higher sample rates leave inter-sample latency less. And PT native doesn't even ping your interface to figure out latency (the way every other DAW does). You have to manually calculate it using a transient and converting from samples to ms and then enter it into your I/O settings. And then if you change sample rate or buffer size you have to do it again. It's f*%$ing insanity. Every other DAW just does it for you (because it's so trivial for the DAW to handle it). One of those things where Avid just nakedly hamstrings PT to try and extract some cash from you. I've wondered if any of the newer versions of PT have corrected this? I don't see it discussed much. I'm on PT 2018. Interesting all this is not a problem in Logic on an AUX I insert ping it and use the outboard fx like a plug in. But my Logic has a bunch of other problems....
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