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Post by mcirish on Dec 28, 2019 11:35:42 GMT -6
I know as soon as some of you see "Blackstar" you will be instantly turned off. I'm not of that opinion (at least so far). I did a festival a few years ago and I heard another band and thought the guitar tone was great. Checked it out afterwards and the guy sheepishly told me about the Blackstar he was using. I think he really wanted a Marshall but couldn't afford it. I'd take that Blackstar over a buzzy JCM800 any day, but that's another story.
My dilemma - recording electric guitar
I own a Fender DRRI. Sounds great but it's way too loud to get the sound I want without complaints. I also want to be able to simply practice ideas with a good sound before pressing the record button. In the past, I have used the DRRI with an OCD pedal to get me a bit more overdrive for very rocky/prog type things I had worked on. I like the Fender clean tone when it's just near breakup, to get a little natural compression. For singing lead tones, the Fender just doesn't do that naturally without pedals. Even then, to get some power tube saturation, the amp has to be at bleeding ear volumes. So, I've been thinking about options.
1) Use the DRRI with an attenuator on the speaker output to get the level I want without the volume (good attenuators are super expensive and cheap ones darken the tone a lot)
2) Use the DRRI with a load box and use cabinet impulses instead of the a real speaker - Pete Thorn did a video on this and I was amazed at how close it was (he made his own impulses)
3) Go fully ITB with an amp sim. I've never found one that completely sold me on it. They always seem a bit too compressed with very little life in them
4) Get a small/low wattage amp for recording. I've seen a lot of videos on the Blackstar HT-5R MKII and I'm very impressed. Yes, I know it is not fully tube. It has a lot of TLO72 op amps in it and some FETs. Still, the demos I heard sounded great. Think about it. The DRRI is fully tube but I have pedals in front of it to give me the overdrive I want. Those pedals are not tubes.
What are YOUR thoughts on this? I really do love micing up a real amp. It's pretty simple to get a great sound instantly. I'd just like to get some good sounds without annoying everyone. Anyone using DRRI or Blackstar? Let me know what route you went for recording guitars.
BTW: My usual stuff I work on is all acoustic. The guitar heavy stuff is a side project. If I could get any guitar sound, I'd try to mimic Roine Stolt. But, he has a great deal more talent on the guitar than I do and would sound great on anything.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 28, 2019 13:49:47 GMT -6
I had 2 blackstars, yes, liked the tone but not the noise, don’t know that I would buy another.
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Post by stratboy on Dec 28, 2019 13:54:09 GMT -6
Very happy with Two Notes Torpedo Captor. I think it would work for you playing and recording.
Had the 5 watt Blackstar, but traded it for an Egnater Tweaker 15. Less buzzy, better tone overall.
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Post by mcirish on Dec 28, 2019 14:32:03 GMT -6
Ahhh, the noise. They don't really say anything about that in the reviews but I would imagine it could be an issue.
I remember thinking about the Tweaker many years ago. I don't know why I never went with that. Maybe I just wasn't sold on the sound. I have been looking at the Two Notes stuff. It just gets pricey to get a cab simulator and an attenuator or dummy load. So many choices. I hate having gear regrets.
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Post by mcirish on Dec 28, 2019 14:38:30 GMT -6
Checking out videos on the Tweaker 15 now. How is the clean sounds? fender sparkly?
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 28, 2019 14:50:17 GMT -6
If you are thinking egnator, I just sold my Tweaker and blackstar and got a Egnator rebel mki and found its original cab ( celestrian).
I prefer the rebel, peeps seem to like the mki over the mkii.
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Post by stratboy on Dec 28, 2019 18:06:22 GMT -6
Checking out videos on the Tweaker 15 now. How is the clean sounds? fender sparkly? Yes. I own Fender, Vox and a Marshall. The Tweaker nails Vox, does really good Fender, and a decent Marshall. If you ignore the imitation aspects, it gets, IMO, really good cleans in two flavors and a good growl. Not buzzy like the Blackstar or the Marshall DSL series. |
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Post by mcirish on Dec 28, 2019 19:44:19 GMT -6
If you are thinking egnator, I just sold my Tweaker and blackstar and got a Egnator rebel mki and found its original cab ( celestrian). I prefer the rebel, peeps seem to like the mki over the mkii. What is it about the Rebel that you liked more than the Tweaker? Curious. I see the Rebel 20 has an output wattage control and can get down to one watt. That's pretty impressive in itself. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 28, 2019 20:29:14 GMT -6
Yes the controls are more versatile : 1-20 watt, and these interact with the Gain and master, the pot fir full fender or full Marshall and anything in between: you can approach a Vox chime and I think the rebel has better tone but I liked the Tweaker too.
I line my Cabs with Rockwool ridged insulation, to absorb their resonances so I prefer this cleaner sound coming from the speaker.
The rebel cab celestrian was apparently tuned for the rebel amp.
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Post by mcirish on Dec 28, 2019 21:36:24 GMT -6
Only good thing about being sick all day is that I can watch endless videos on any subject. Still no conclusion here. I was tempted a few times to buy a new amp and then I'd stop and wonder if they would be better than the DRRI I already own. Maybe I just need a new pedal and an attenuator. I think I will watch more videos...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 28, 2019 22:10:25 GMT -6
Had two Blackstars, 5 W. and 20 W. Both were too noisy to record with. Sounded good, but just overwhemingly noisy. If you could afford it, the UAD OX is the ticket. I'm looking into the Strymon Iridium myself to solve the same problem you're having.
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Post by gwlee7 on Dec 29, 2019 9:15:20 GMT -6
I have the little bitty Blackstar HT1R which is great for taking over to friends houses for couch jamming but is pretty noisy. It is a lot of fun though. Also, in regards to load boxes, I have the SPL Reducer and it works great on my Princeton Reverb limited edition. Here is a little wav file demo of it from a while back. drive.google.com/file/d/1n8RWPRUCzAjtP_4pWYZyoE7Q9DADUha0/view?usp=drivesdk |
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Post by mcirish on Dec 29, 2019 10:36:10 GMT -6
Thank you for the replies. I will avoid the Blackstar for recording. I watched a lot of Egnator videos as well. I started looking into that as well. The Rebel 20 sounds like it may be better than the Tweaker 15, but in both cases, they are still very loud amps and I'd need an attenuator to really push the power tubes for recording. I could use the master volume on those instead but for some reason, the sound just didn't knock me out. The DRRI is a great clean amp and I like it best between 4-6 on the volume and then use an overdrive to push it, but that's deafening. Only 22 watts but those are loud. So, the hunt for the right recording setup continues.
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Post by mcirish on Dec 29, 2019 10:58:29 GMT -6
Very happy with Two Notes Torpedo Captor. I think it would work for you playing and recording. Had the 5 watt Blackstar, but traded it for an Egnater Tweaker 15. Less buzzy, better tone overall. I checked out the Two Notes Torpedo Captor. That's in my budget. If I did the math right, the output to the speaker would be cut to .22 watts. I wonder if that's enough to record with a mic? If not, I could use a cab sim. Hmmm. This might be the idea so far. I could still keep the sound of the amp but make it usable in a quieter recording environment. |
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Post by stratboy on Dec 29, 2019 12:09:47 GMT -6
Very happy with Two Notes Torpedo Captor. I think it would work for you playing and recording. Had the 5 watt Blackstar, but traded it for an Egnater Tweaker 15. Less buzzy, better tone overall. I checked out the Two Notes Torpedo Captor. That's in my budget. If I did the math right, the output to the speaker would be cut to .22 watts. I wonder if that's enough to record with a mic? If not, I could use a cab sim. Hmmm. This might be the idea so far. I could still keep the sound of the amp but make it usable in a quieter recording environment. This. The Captor has three ways to record: 1: mic the attenuated cab, 2: Cab sim output, 3: Clean DI using Two Notes Cab IRs. The IRs that come free with the unit are great for what I do, and of course, Two Notes has many more they will be happy to sell you. One of those three methods will work for you. Numbers 2 and 3 can be completely silent. Number 3 is very versatile. |
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Post by stratboy on Dec 29, 2019 12:09:58 GMT -6
Very happy with Two Notes Torpedo Captor. I think it would work for you playing and recording. Had the 5 watt Blackstar, but traded it for an Egnater Tweaker 15. Less buzzy, better tone overall. I checked out the Two Notes Torpedo Captor. That's in my budget. If I did the math right, the output to the speaker would be cut to .22 watts. I wonder if that's enough to record with a mic? If not, I could use a cab sim. Hmmm. This might be the idea so far. I could still keep the sound of the amp but make it usable in a quieter recording environment. This. The Captor has three ways to record: 1: mic the attenuated cab, 2: Cab sim output, 3: Clean DI using Two Notes Cab IRs. The IRs that come free with the unit are great for what I do, and of course, Two Notes has many more they will be happy to sell you. One of those three methods will work for you. Numbers 2 and 3 can be completely silent. Number 3 is very versatile. |
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Post by mcirish on Dec 29, 2019 13:01:31 GMT -6
I'm going to grab the Captor as well as a Egnater Rebel 30 MKI. Funny that I was checking out Egnator amps and a local guy just posted a Rebel 30 for sale. Fair price too. I think its worth the gamble. With both the Captor and the Egnater with my DRRI, I should be covered for guitar tones.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 29, 2019 13:28:50 GMT -6
Blackstars aren't very well designed or built and I've seen a number of people over at GS who report problems with getting them serviced, especially out of warranty. Within warranty it at least appears that they may not actually repair them, at least the smaller models, they just replace them.
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Post by mcirish on Dec 29, 2019 13:46:06 GMT -6
Blackstars aren't very well designed or built and I've seen a number of people over at GS who report problems with getting them serviced, especially out of warranty. Within warranty it at least appears that they may not actually repair them, at least the smaller models, they just replace them. Thanks John. That's good to know. I had not played one in person so I was a little surprised by the noise issues reported. I had heard people complain about build quality, but figured I can fix most anything. Anyway, I went the Egnater route for now. I pick it up in a couple hours. Witht the addition of the attenuator, I should be set... famous last words. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2019 7:18:21 GMT -6
Nice the rebel 30 has verb as well, bet you will be happy!
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Post by brenta on Dec 30, 2019 9:56:39 GMT -6
I just got an Orange Rocker 15 last week. All tube and has built in power scaling which allows you to choose between 15 watt, 7, 1, or .5 watts, so you can still get good tones at lower volumes. I've only been able to play with it a little but so far it sounds great and I think it will be an excellent and versatile recording amp.
I might buy or build an isolation cabinet sometime this year to also address the same issues. I haven't heard any recordings made with one yet so I'm not sure how they sound.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2019 11:46:53 GMT -6
Ask Ragan, he made some ISO’’s recently and has the woodworking chops down.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011 
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2019 22:36:08 GMT -6
Black star, well they nailed the sound of an old abused amp noise and all, in the end you get what you paid for.
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Post by mcirish on Dec 31, 2019 15:36:28 GMT -6
I had a little time to mess with the Egnater Rebel 30. That's one loud amp! It can do a lot of very good sounds. I found the schematics and checked it out. It's doing some innovative things in a very small package. The clean channel can get a very nice Fender(ish) sound. The second channel goes all the way from a slight breakup to more overdrive than I would want to use. It never gets that diode clipping fizzy thing happening; probably because all the overdrive is from the tubes. I'm still playing around with it. I may try different tubes. I bought a Weber Mass 100 from a forum member and I will be giving that a shot too. Overall, I think it was a good purchase. Egnater wasn't really on my radar but maybe it should have been. It's a very versatile amp.
I am glad I didn't go with the small Blackstar. The noise would have been a real issue when recording.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 31, 2019 15:49:39 GMT -6
Tone and versatility, I think are what define Egnators.
The 20 watt isn’t overly loud: works well for recording!
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