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Post by jeromemason on Mar 13, 2014 14:42:06 GMT -6
Random, I know. But I just mixed a national commercial, and the strings that came in were really bad. Whoever recorded them used ultra clean pre's and some really bright mic's, so it had that screechy, kind of sound. So, I just set my 1073's as inserts, ran the violin and viola through those babies and what came out was an immediate fix.
Btw.... I havn't done a score in a while, and man was that fun. I love being able to use emotion with piano and strings to a darker and serious commercial like that. Orchestral music to me is one of the toughest to mix, but to me, is the most gratifying when you get it done.
Anyway, random thoughts, carry on gents.
Jerome.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 15:08:46 GMT -6
running things through Neve pres does not turn really bad into really good.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 13, 2014 15:35:13 GMT -6
running things through Neve pres does not turn really bad into really good.  ? If you have something that was recorded ultra clean that needs to be softened a bit with a little harmonic content, then it makes it sound good in that way, the way I was describing it. Now, if I must make a disclaimer, (which I thought was only over on the other site) I will, that you cannot take a beginner guitar player and run his tracks through a Neve pre and expect Joe Satriani to come blasting through the speakers. You CAN however, take a track that is thin and crispy and run it through them, and it will come out sounding much easier on the ears and bigger. Especially those of acoustic stringed instruments and bass guitar. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 15:36:29 GMT -6
Now I hear you. I still need to get new preamps but might just get the new Antelope interface and be done.
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Post by gouge on Mar 13, 2014 15:53:28 GMT -6
I sometimes reamp vocals with a nevish pre to get the same thing happening. it's the way the transformer breaks up. I use an ma-5 as my "neve" pre but love it none the less.
this is why people like particular consoles to mix through.
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Post by unit7 on Mar 13, 2014 16:04:39 GMT -6
Random, I know. But I just mixed a national commercial, and the strings that came in were really bad. Whoever recorded them used ultra clean pre's and some really bright mic's, so it had that screechy, kind of sound. So, I just set my 1073's as inserts, ran the violin and viola through those babies and what came out was an immediate fix. Btw.... I havn't done a score in a while, and man was that fun. I love being able to use emotion with piano and strings to a darker and serious commercial like that. Orchestral music to me is one of the toughest to mix, but to me, is the most gratifying when you get it done. Anyway, random thoughts, carry on gents. Jerome. I enjoy working w orchestral stuff too. As usual the key is how it's recorded. I recently had the privilege to mix a commercial featuring a full symphonic orchestra recorded by the top name here Lars Nilsson (Nilento): YouTube linkWhen the producer and I started mixing we began with the ProTools session just as Lars had saved it. Added a nice Altiverb hall, had the contrabasses up 1-2dBs and that was it more or less. Guess which preamps Lars is using mainly ;-) edit: never got that link to work...gonna let it stay a moment if it turns out to be a temporary issue |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 13, 2014 17:23:54 GMT -6
I just sold my Heritage Jr. again to fund some other stuff...but I sold it for $8 more than I bought it for  Anyway - I do love those pres...but I only need two pres, really - and the Helios and Heider aren't going anywhere...It also funded my Apollo Twin. I love the Heritage stuff, and if/when money isn't a factor, I'm gonna pick up two of the 1073 eq versions... |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 13, 2014 17:56:31 GMT -6
Random, I know. But I just mixed a national commercial, and the strings that came in were really bad. Whoever recorded them used ultra clean pre's and some really bright mic's, so it had that screechy, kind of sound. So, I just set my 1073's as inserts, ran the violin and viola through those babies and what came out was an immediate fix. Btw.... I havn't done a score in a while, and man was that fun. I love being able to use emotion with piano and strings to a darker and serious commercial like that. Orchestral music to me is one of the toughest to mix, but to me, is the most gratifying when you get it done. Anyway, random thoughts, carry on gents. Jerome. I enjoy working w orchestral stuff too. As usual the key is how it's recorded. I recently had the privilege to mix a commercial featuring a full symphonic orchestra recorded by the top name here Lars Nilsson (Nilento): YouTube linkWhen the producer and I started mixing we began with the ProTools session just as Lars had saved it. Added a nice Altiverb hall, had the contrabasses up 1-2dBs and that was it more or less. Guess which preamps Lars is using mainly ;-) edit: never got that link to work...gonna let it stay a moment if it turns out to be a temporary issueNice: track played fine here; very moving performance and production ! |
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Post by svart on Mar 13, 2014 18:06:12 GMT -6
I think this goes along with the other mic thread.. I've not heard *that* much difference between the neves and something else. You can pick out the difference if you listen hard, but it's not *that* obvious.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 13, 2014 18:29:27 GMT -6
I think our preamp obsession is just that - obsession. Kind of the reason I only have two preamps now...
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 13, 2014 18:43:53 GMT -6
Maybe it's function.... Some pres can't be cranked like a 1073 and spit out the same sound. I know when I put those strings through them it was listenable. I trust my ears enough to know something good was going on. If we are talking about just good signal then I would agree a 1073 type will sound like the rest, but when juiced up, that's when I'm in the camp of certain pres certain applications/sound.
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Post by henge on Mar 13, 2014 18:59:02 GMT -6
Random, I know. But I just mixed a national commercial, and the strings that came in were really bad. Whoever recorded them used ultra clean pre's and some really bright mic's, so it had that screechy, kind of sound. So, I just set my 1073's as inserts, ran the violin and viola through those babies and what came out was an immediate fix. Btw.... I havn't done a score in a while, and man was that fun. I love being able to use emotion with piano and strings to a darker and serious commercial like that. Orchestral music to me is one of the toughest to mix, but to me, is the most gratifying when you get it done. Anyway, random thoughts, carry on gents. Jerome. I enjoy working w orchestral stuff too. As usual the key is how it's recorded. I recently had the privilege to mix a commercial featuring a full symphonic orchestra recorded by the top name here Lars Nilsson (Nilento): YouTube linkWhen the producer and I started mixing we began with the ProTools session just as Lars had saved it. Added a nice Altiverb hall, had the contrabasses up 1-2dBs and that was it more or less. Guess which preamps Lars is using mainly ;-) edit: never got that link to work...gonna let it stay a moment if it turns out to be a temporary issueSounds great!! What's the commercial for? |
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Post by gouge on Mar 13, 2014 22:04:27 GMT -6
I think this goes along with the other mic thread.. I've not heard *that* much difference between the neves and something else. You can pick out the difference if you listen hard, but it's not *that* obvious. look, I'm not trying to be offensive but I just don't understand how people can say pres all sound pretty much the same while keeping a straight face.
that has not been my experience. my experience is preamps can sound vastly different.
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Post by svart on Mar 14, 2014 7:36:53 GMT -6
I think this goes along with the other mic thread.. I've not heard *that* much difference between the neves and something else. You can pick out the difference if you listen hard, but it's not *that* obvious. look, I'm not trying to be offensive but I just don't understand how people can say pres all sound pretty much the same while keeping a straight face.
that has not been my experience. my experience is preamps can sound vastly different.
No offense taken, although I don't understand the criticism. Once I got above the neve/api/ssl quality, I honestly don't hear that much difference. I know what to listen for, so I do hear a difference, but it's minuscule. The API has a little more mids, the neve has a little more top and bottom and the SSL is just clean and flat. That's pretty much all I need for any situation, but when I run out of a certain preamp, I'll just plug into the next available one and roll with it. It's not that big of a deal and I've had no problems making it work. I feel that mic positioning and instrument setup makes a much bigger difference in the recording quality. If the amp settings aren't right or the drums aren't tuned to sing, then no preamp or mic will make it so, and running through a preamp again, still won't make it so. Maybe if someone was A/Bing something like a mackie preamp to neve preamp they would hear a huge difference, but those days were a decade ago for me, so I don't even recall what something like that mackie sounds like. I do hear stuff that people I know record on cheap mics and preamps and there is no way you're going to make it more HIFI by running it through a simple preamp. It honestly just sounds like the OP just needed to scoop the mids a little and add a little low bump to the recording because that's what the neve will do, but ever so slightly. |
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Post by mulmany on Mar 14, 2014 9:32:59 GMT -6
I think he is talking about mild saturation. Letting the pre do the eq and adding pleasing harmonic content all in one shot.
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Post by svart on Mar 14, 2014 9:49:57 GMT -6
I think he is talking about mild saturation. Letting the pre do the eq and adding pleasing harmonic content all in one shot. No, I get what he's saying, but it's not that noticeable to make me go "wow that fixed a huge problem". It just adds a slight tone. I mean, maybe he's hitting these things so hard that he's getting huge compression/saturation.. Now that would be noticable, but it wouldn't be the preamp itself causing it's normal amount of scoop and harmonics, it would be intentionally misusing it to cause an effect. completely different animals. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 14, 2014 9:50:54 GMT -6
Yeah - they all definitely break up differently...but for MOST contexts, we're not going to be driving the hell out of a pre to get saturation. Or at least I don't. But I can see how the Neve would be preferred for those that do...
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Post by mulmany on Mar 14, 2014 10:10:06 GMT -6
Well that was part of Nirvana ' s guitar sound. Feeding a neve with line level into the mic input.
I love feeding strings into my pres and hitting them hard enough that they start saturating. You don't really notice and say hey thats distortion. It just thickens and smooths. Parallel process with original. This is a mix tool, not for tracking.
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Post by drbill on Mar 14, 2014 11:01:31 GMT -6
I love neve pre's.... Can I work and live without em? Sure. In fact, I did for many, many years. The grammy I got had ZERO Neve pre's on it. Lots of API's though.... :-) Neve's are nice on vocals, but the one thing I have not been able to do without them on is Kick drum. I looked for mics for years to get the sound I wanted on kick and never found the mic I was looking for. Putting a Neve pre on the kick was instant completion and end of search. But yeah, pre's are pre's and if they have iron and are a good design, I tend to like em. More pre's are good pre's though....
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Post by unit7 on Mar 14, 2014 13:03:40 GMT -6
Thanks for the positive feedback kcatthedog and henge. Though I can't take credit for that piece sounding good as it was superbly recorded. The commercial is for a government owned betting and gambling company (that sounded wierd  but it's true). And it IS a quite moving piece. The song is supposedly sung by a guy addressed to his elder brother that he has always looked up to. Too hard to translate and explain, but story is both moving and fun. I recorded the vocal too, Grosser U47->AMS/Neve1084->AnalogueTube compressor. I remember the singer commenting on that he loved the sound of that mic. Though I'm very fond of my Neve reissues I agree that when you reach a certain quality level the differences are quite small. |
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 14, 2014 13:34:04 GMT -6
Well that was part of Nirvana ' s guitar sound. Feeding a neve with line level into the mic input. I love feeding strings into my pres and hitting them hard enough that they start saturating. You don't really notice and say hey thats distortion. It just thickens and smooths. Parallel process with original. This is a mix tool, not for tracking. This is what I'm talking about..... The strings I got sounded to clean, and scratchy. So I inserted a 1073, cranked the input until it broke up a little, and what came out was a beautiful listenable sound, it's just not very complicated. The only pre that I've seen do that is a neve type, the harmonic addition even if it's distortion, is beautiful sounding. Try that with an SSL..... put something through it until it starts to distort, what you're going to get is something akin to one of the blues brothers screaming through the massive horn on top of their car. |
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Post by henge on Mar 14, 2014 14:43:59 GMT -6
Thanks for the positive feedback kcatthedog and henge. Though I can't take credit for that piece sounding good as it was superbly recorded. The commercial is for a government owned betting and gambling company (that sounded wierd but it's true). And it IS a quite moving piece. The song is supposedly sung by a guy addressed to his elder brother that he has always looked up to. Too hard to translate and explain, but story is both moving and fun. I recorded the vocal too, Grosser U47->AMS/Neve1084->AnalogueTube compressor. I remember the singer commenting on that he loved the sound of that mic. Though I'm very fond of my Neve reissues I agree that when you reach a certain quality level the differences are quite small. Sorry man I have to know what that story is!!! LOL My interest has been teased... |
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Post by henge on Mar 14, 2014 14:46:48 GMT -6
My me1nv's sound wonderful when driven in the right situation.
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Post by unit7 on Mar 14, 2014 15:52:48 GMT -6
Thanks for the positive feedback kcatthedog and henge. Though I can't take credit for that piece sounding good as it was superbly recorded. The commercial is for a government owned betting and gambling company (that sounded wierd but it's true). And it IS a quite moving piece. The song is supposedly sung by a guy addressed to his elder brother that he has always looked up to. Too hard to translate and explain, but story is both moving and fun. I recorded the vocal too, Grosser U47->AMS/Neve1084->AnalogueTube compressor. I remember the singer commenting on that he loved the sound of that mic. Though I'm very fond of my Neve reissues I agree that when you reach a certain quality level the differences are quite small. Sorry man I have to know what that story is!!! LOL My interest has been teased... Ha, you're funny! this will be hard but I'll try to translate and explain the lyrics: He's my brother The sun in my sky [almost meaning heaven] A rock where I can rest A person that always understands [who I can always turn to/who is always there for me] The one who is the best [here's a twist :-) He's singing about his elder brother. Coming from the previous lyrics this could all be just words of love, but… it's also meaning that he is also always best in the typical and more annoying older brother sense, which the film reflects) He's my brother The one who has walked the path [in front of me/showing the way] A brother that is grand (meaning also elder brother) I walk in his shoes Like brothers do And in all situations he's there along the way I'd probably sink/drown if he wasn't there Comfort or hard/grueling We'll meet on Saturday, somewhere [This is the hook of the song that the big football spectator choir is singing in the end of the song. That hook has been used in a number of versions of commercials for this company for some time now, and this hook is VERY well known here. It refers to Saturday being soccer match day, both for players, gamblers and team fans. So here's another change of angle, not only about the love for the brother suddenly] He's my brother I know all of his 'sides' [his personality] A brother that is grand Who always thinks he's the best [the twist more clearly now ] These days we don't meet as much anymore Long time between the occassions [we meet] It feels as though time 'wasn't present' [meaning two things: 1. The common 'time flies' 2. Things are as they've always been, suggesting that the elder brother still thinks he's the best] Comfort or hard/grueling We'll meet on Saturday ------ In the film we see old clips of the brothers where the elder brother is the confident and successful one, but in the end (present time) we see them with some friends looking at a soccer game, and the younger brother kisses his lottery ticket after a successful bet. Ok now...perhaps not big poetry, but within a commercial spot format, pretty brilliant me thinks! ------ I've tried to find an angle connecting to the Neve theme but have to surrender to the fact that this has to be the most OT post I've ever posted  |
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Post by henge on Mar 14, 2014 16:21:02 GMT -6
Nice!! Thanks man, what a nice sentiment.
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? If you have something that was recorded ultra clean that needs to be softened a bit with a little harmonic content, then it makes it sound good in that way, the way I was describing it. 
Anyway - I do love those pres...but I only need two pres, really - and the Helios and Heider aren't going anywhere...It also funded my Apollo Twin. I love the Heritage stuff, and if/when money isn't a factor, I'm gonna pick up two of the 1073 eq versions...
but it's true). And it IS a quite moving piece. The song is supposedly sung by a guy addressed to his elder brother that he has always looked up to. Too hard to translate and explain, but story is both moving and fun. I recorded the vocal too, Grosser U47->AMS/Neve1084->AnalogueTube compressor. I remember the singer commenting on that he loved the sound of that mic. Though I'm very fond of my Neve reissues I agree that when you reach a certain quality level the differences are quite small. 