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Post by Quint on Nov 30, 2019 12:52:49 GMT -6
I have a real Hammond M3, but I'm interested in exploring a way to try to recreate that with two separate controllers, one for each organ manual.
I currently have an Akai MPK261 and was thinking about picking up a second one so that I could use each one as a separate manual. Also, what about the pedals (though this is less important to me)?
Who here has done something like this? Will the Akai work for this or would I need a pair of some other type of controller to do this? Does this only work with certain sample libraries and not others? Are there any DAW-specific limitations (I mostly use Reaper these days)?
Bottom line, I want this to be as functionally close to playing the real thing as possible. I have Acousticsamples B-5 V2 and am interested in the new IK B-3X, but I might be interested in a different sample library if something else worked better.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 2, 2019 18:09:22 GMT -6
I have a real Hammond M3, but I'm interested in exploring a way to try to recreate that with two separate controllers, one for each organ manual. I currently have an Akai MPK261 and was thinking about picking up a second one so that I could use each one as a separate manual. Also, what about the pedals (though this is less important to me)? Who here has done something like this? Will the Akai work for this or would I need a pair of some other type of controller to do this? Does this only work with certain sample libraries and not others? Are there any DAW-specific limitations (I mostly use Reaper these days)? Bottom line, I want this to be as functionally close to playing the real thing as possible. I have Acousticsamples B-5 V2 and am interested in the new IK B-3X, but I might be interested in a different sample library if something else worked better. Well, I'm not familiar with every keyboard controller on the market and I don't know anything about your personal skills/techniques on the organ, but the main drawback that occurs to me is the lack of physical drawbars. I don't know if that matters to you, but a lot of the Hammond organists I've known often "play the drawbars" to morph sounds while they're playing.
EDIT: I do see that your controller has a nice set of faders - the question would be if those can be set up to control the individual harmonics of the organ sound.
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Post by Quint on Dec 2, 2019 21:41:19 GMT -6
I have a real Hammond M3, but I'm interested in exploring a way to try to recreate that with two separate controllers, one for each organ manual. I currently have an Akai MPK261 and was thinking about picking up a second one so that I could use each one as a separate manual. Also, what about the pedals (though this is less important to me)? Who here has done something like this? Will the Akai work for this or would I need a pair of some other type of controller to do this? Does this only work with certain sample libraries and not others? Are there any DAW-specific limitations (I mostly use Reaper these days)? Bottom line, I want this to be as functionally close to playing the real thing as possible. I have Acousticsamples B-5 V2 and am interested in the new IK B-3X, but I might be interested in a different sample library if something else worked better. Well, I'm not familiar with every keyboard controller on the market and I don't know anything about your personal skills/techniques on the organ, but the main drawback that occurs to me is the lack of physical drawbars. I don't know if that matters to you, but a lot of the Hammond organists I've known often "play the drawbars" to morph sounds while they're playing.
EDIT: I do see that your controller has a nice set of faders - the question would be if those can be set up to control the individual harmonics of the organ sound.
I'm nothing special on the organ, but I do enjoy playing both manuals on a Hammond. Also, and more importantly, I'd like to be able to offer as close an experience as possible to others who may come into my studio to record. Yeah, it would be nice to always record the Hammond, but sometimes that isn't an option, hence the exploration of alternatives. |
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Post by bradd on Dec 3, 2019 16:09:16 GMT -6
I think you might be better off looking at clone wheels like the Crumar MOJO. You would get a much more organ-like playing experience. Part of the problem with using two separate keyboard controllers is that it is very hard to place them as closely together as two manuals on an organ. That's part of the ergonomic dilemma.
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Post by bradd on Dec 3, 2019 16:12:27 GMT -6
It looks like the GSi DMC-122 is a two manual controller for playing organ soft synths. Looks pretty cool.
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Post by Quint on Dec 4, 2019 11:13:40 GMT -6
I think you might be better off looking at clone wheels like the Crumar MOJO. You would get a much more organ-like playing experience. Part of the problem with using two separate keyboard controllers is that it is very hard to place them as closely together as two manuals on an organ. That's part of the ergonomic dilemma. I'll check out the Crumar. $2,500 though. Ouch. As for ergonomics, I was just going to build some kind of wooden stand to get them close to one another. |
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Post by Quint on Dec 4, 2019 11:33:44 GMT -6
It looks like the GSi DMC-122 is a two manual controller for playing organ soft synths. Looks pretty cool. This also looks cool but I'm honestly more interested in hearing about people who have successfully used two separate controllers in tandem (if that's even possible?). I already have one controller and I think I'd prefer to just buy another if it's possible to get two controllers to work like this. $1500 or $2500 is way more than I'd like to spend on this. $500 for a second Akai is much more in the territory of cost that I'd be willing to spend. Has anyone had success using two controllers to do this? |
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 4, 2019 18:16:17 GMT -6
It looks like the GSi DMC-122 is a two manual controller for playing organ soft synths. Looks pretty cool. That IS cool! And it has drawbars! |
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Post by popmann on Dec 4, 2019 20:50:06 GMT -6
The two softwares you mention will allow what you're asking.
I HAVE done it in the past and never used it beyond hooking it up and going "neat"--because the most important aspects for me ergonomically are the drawbars, swell pedal, and Leslie speed control. I've only ever had the one set of MIDI Drawbars....and the "bottom" was always a weighted board....anyway--the drawbars, swell, and Leslie control went along with the top manual channel--so, that's really all I used.
I'd argue that the least expensive option you have is to simply mod the M3 for a line output tap--add Ventilator or IK Leslie. Thus silent recording of organ where the ergonomics are largely already worked out--save switching the Leslie, which is a MIDI switch on the IK or just stepping on the Vent....
You DO run into some DAW/sequencer challenges when you want to record the MIDI of a multiple channel single instrument. Nothing that is unworkable, but it makes it all way more confusing and maybe not the defaults in a given sequencer. You will have to understand how to work with multiple channels on a single MIDI track. Or potentially recording it on multiple channels pointed to the same VI instance....
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Post by Quint on Dec 5, 2019 9:30:13 GMT -6
The two softwares you mention will allow what you're asking. I HAVE done it in the past and never used it beyond hooking it up and going "neat"--because the most important aspects for me ergonomically are the drawbars, swell pedal, and Leslie speed control. I've only ever had the one set of MIDI Drawbars....and the "bottom" was always a weighted board....anyway--the drawbars, swell, and Leslie control went along with the top manual channel--so, that's really all I used. I'd argue that the least expensive option you have is to simply mod the M3 for a line output tap--add Ventilator or IK Leslie. Thus silent recording of organ where the ergonomics are largely already worked out--save switching the Leslie, which is a MIDI switch on the IK or just stepping on the Vent.... You DO run into some DAW/sequencer challenges when you want to record the MIDI of a multiple channel single instrument. Nothing that is unworkable, but it makes it all way more confusing and maybe not the defaults in a given sequencer. You will have to understand how to work with multiple channels on a single MIDI track. Or potentially recording it on multiple channels pointed to the same VI instance.... Thanks for reminding me about the line out option on the M3. I had forgotten about that. I'm still interested in figuring out this second controller thing but, depending on what it would cost to mod the M3 for a line out, I may do that sooner than later, or possibly instead of the second controller. Are you aware of any good walk-thrus on the web that I could use to mod the M3 myself? |
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Post by popmann on Dec 5, 2019 9:47:05 GMT -6
I am not aware of any-meaning that I've used (see below). But, it should be a fairly simple thing. Part of the Leslie out IS a line level output....so, it's just about tapping that before it goes down to the cable. Here's my quick Bing search: www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/LineOutFromASpinet |
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Post by Quint on Dec 5, 2019 17:00:15 GMT -6
I am not aware of any-meaning that I've used (see below). But, it should be a fairly simple thing. Part of the Leslie out IS a line level output....so, it's just about tapping that before it goes down to the cable. Here's my quick Bing search: www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/LineOutFromASpinetThat's the same circuit plan I've seen. I need to to do some more research and make sure there's not any potential hangups for my particular model (1958) of M3, but it looks to be pretty simple overall. |
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