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Post by tkaitkai on Oct 10, 2019 17:04:57 GMT -6
Hey all,
Would love to discuss ways to combat excessive LF/LMF in acoustic guitar recordings, particularly when it comes to the guitar itself.
I have an acoustic that I love, but it's definitely on the boomy side, so the lower midrange is always a challenge. I've tried looooooots of different mic/preamp/string/pick choices, along with different mic placements and room positions, and for now, my best results are using Elixir strings, an M149 in omni 2' away, and a cut at 300Hz on a Wunder PEQ (I actually prefer a 1073 for acoustics, but alas, I no longer have one on loan). Still, the lower mids are a little too resonant for my taste.
I recently came across the suggestion to use blu-tack to dampen/mute the soundboard, and this certainly seems like a cool idea. Has anyone tried this? Are there similar/more effective solutions?
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Post by EmRR on Oct 10, 2019 17:08:47 GMT -6
What does a SDC pressure omni tell you?
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 10, 2019 17:12:49 GMT -6
Hey all, Would love to discuss ways to combat excessive LF/LMF in acoustic guitar recordings, particularly when it comes to the guitar itself. I have an acoustic that I love, but it's definitely on the boomy side, so the lower midrange is always a challenge. I've tried looooooots of different mic/preamp/string/pick choices, along with different mic placements and room positions, and for now, my best results are using Elixir strings, an M149 in omni 2' away, and a cut at 300Hz on a Wunder PEQ (I actually prefer a 1073 for acoustics, but alas, I no longer have one on loan). Still, the lower mids are a little too resonant for my taste. I recently came across the suggestion to use blu-tack to dampen/mute the soundboard, and this certainly seems like a cool idea. Has anyone tried this? Are there similar/more effective solutions?
Do we talk home recording or tracking in good sounding live rooms?
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Post by tkaitkai on Oct 10, 2019 17:43:05 GMT -6
What does a SDC pressure omni tell you? I have a 3U Warbler 127 omni (SDC with interchangeable caps). It worked great for a guitar I had previously, but unfortunately, sounds pretty bloated with the guitar I have now. It definitely has a push in the exact spot that's giving me trouble.  I also have a Dayton Audio EMM-6, which sounds decent, but it's too noisy for softer fingerpicking. mrholmes Home recording! |
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 10, 2019 18:11:27 GMT -6
What does a SDC pressure omni tell you? I have a 3U Warbler 127 omni (SDC with interchangeable caps). It worked great for a guitar I had previously, but unfortunately, sounds pretty bloated with the guitar I have now. It definitely has a push in the exact spot that's giving me trouble. mrholmes Home recording!
Since I have reorganized my room its great for monitoring but not so great for tracking....  Some resonant / boomy sound is the room and some of it the guitar.
For tracking in bad sounding rooms I made the experience that I always tend to try close micing. This in combination with a dreadnought that tends to hype some lows - just a bad idea.
Great is to have one guitar there which has a stronger thicker bracing.
Yamaha s for example do not resonate that strong like top-notch guitars.
Choose a mic with lesser proximity effect.
In bad rooms my ear faces the player sound and that's very often right spot for the mic. An LDC on ear height was my best bet for the last song and it blended well with the room. I other words in bad rooms try wild mic positions you may find the spot which fits the song/room.
If everything fails because time is money and I know that I have no time for booking a friends live room, or its blocked but work has to be done and I need to have a consistent sound. There maybe is no time for placing the mic. In this case I go with the iRig Acoustic MIC/PREAMP combination. Its a digital Clip-Mic Omni which goes into a digital preamp and from there into my interface on the HI Z input. Sometimes I use this in combination with the guitars piezzo.
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Post by shoe on Oct 10, 2019 18:20:30 GMT -6
I had a song I was mixing recently that had super boomy acoustics. I also initially though to cut 300hz, but it turned out the problem was actually lower. It was at 150hz. So I ended up cutting that and then boosting + attenuating the lows (at 30hz I think) a little bit with a Pultec plugin to get some body back (there was no bass tracked on the song at all, so it needed some low end down there).
As far as recording it, I have had good luck pointing a TG mic around the neck joint from maybe about a foot or foot and a half away with the high pass on on the flat eq setting. Sounds quite nice, I think.
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 10, 2019 19:47:15 GMT -6
Mic the 12 fret with the m149 about 6-12'' away in cardioid or further depending on room. Or the warbler would likely be better depending on the song. Angle it about10-15 degree towards the body. Try and API mic pre instead of a Neve style.
Use a 12dB slope at 200hz or so. Notch as needed for more reduction.
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Post by gouge on Oct 11, 2019 1:57:07 GMT -6
150-200hz hpf and a narrow bell around 4-8k depending on vocals.
close to 12 fret with a ksm137 pair or similar mic. if you have a timber floor try recording when sitting on the floor. that can really brighten up a guitar track.
first though have you had the guitR setup. mudiness can be from intonation issues.
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 11, 2019 2:19:36 GMT -6
first though have you had the guitR setup. mudiness can be from intonation issues.
How can intonation fix a physical fact of the guitars body? I talked long times with my Luthier (One of the best in Germany) about this, and he told me that there is no way to build a guitar without resonant spots. He even said that most of the steel strings have spot around 100 and 200 Hz...
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Post by gouge on Oct 11, 2019 6:01:36 GMT -6
it might not be a physical fact of the guitars body. could be many things causing the boominess or muddyness. one of those is linked to intonation and may be that the resonance of the strings are not sympathetic. ie. the overtones are creating issues both accentuating frequencies and cancelling frequencies which can sound like muddyness and or boominess. whilst this is not specific to cello. mindfulcellist.wordpress.com/2015/04/03/resonance-tuning-tone-and-intonation-quick-update/ |
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Post by WKG on Oct 11, 2019 12:03:41 GMT -6
I might try lighter strings, maybe just the E,A & D and see if that helps. Most problems I've run into with boomy guitars can be solved by mic placement, anything sounds boomy if your in front of the sound hole, except maybe a ukulele.  |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 11, 2019 12:43:06 GMT -6
How about trying an EV 635a (like Alabama Shakes)?
Chris
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Post by EmRR on Oct 11, 2019 12:54:12 GMT -6
Wow, I rarely ever use HPF set so high as mentioned above on acoustics, but I also seldom use cardioid mics on acoustics. Come to think of it though, I've used plenty of ribbons, and still not so high. Sometimes a 6dB filter set higher and a 12dB filter set lower can work well.
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Post by Ward on Oct 11, 2019 14:04:12 GMT -6
Wow, I rarely ever use HPF set so high as mentioned above on acoustics, but I also seldom use cardioid mics on acoustics. Come to think of it though, I've used plenty of ribbons, and still not so high. Sometimes a 6dB filter set higher and a 12dB filter set lower can work well. Cool! I'd love to hear about your recording method, chain and EQing. I posted a recent clip in the KM84 thread showcasing how spectacular KM84s work on well-aged Martin guitars. I use the KM84s into a VIntech 73i with 2db of high shelf and an HPF at 50hz. That's it. |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 11, 2019 14:24:27 GMT -6
Wow, I rarely ever use HPF set so high as mentioned above on acoustics, but I also seldom use cardioid mics on acoustics. Come to think of it though, I've used plenty of ribbons, and still not so high. Sometimes a 6dB filter set higher and a 12dB filter set lower can work well. Cool! I'd love to hear about your recording method, chain and EQing. I posted a recent clip in the KM84 thread showcasing how spectacular KM84s work on well-aged Martin guitars. I use the KM84s into a VIntech 73i with 2db of high shelf and an HPF at 50hz. That's it. Lately have been enamored with a KM131 flat omni close in and a mid-side MKH 800 Twin / MKH 30 roughly 3 feet back. The MKH go really low so get any and all subsonic noise, they will end up with higher slope HPF 80-90 Hz, the KM 131 maybe something around 50Hz/12dB or if really active guitar beating could be up around 120-140 at 6dB/oct with a 12dB down around 50. The KM 131 does well with a dB or so of sparkle boost, 12K or so, depends on song type. Gates SA-70's many times, what the Coil CA-70 is based on. Sometimes I'll dump the sub junk in RX7 and leave the filters out of it altogether. Take tube hiss down in RX7 too if it's a delicate spacious piece. |
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Post by stormymondays on Oct 11, 2019 14:34:17 GMT -6
When you say you have tried different picks, have you tried different sizes, shapes, thicknesses and materials? Nothing changes more the sound of an acoustic guitar than the pick.
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Post by wiz on Oct 11, 2019 15:27:58 GMT -6
Record the guitar outside on a nice day.... that will tell you how much the room is effecting it.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 11, 2019 16:00:22 GMT -6
Hey all, Would love to discuss ways to combat excessive LF/LMF in acoustic guitar recordings, particularly when it comes to the guitar itself. I have an acoustic that I love, but it's definitely on the boomy side, so the lower midrange is always a challenge. I've tried looooooots of different mic/preamp/string/pick choices, along with different mic placements and room positions, and for now, my best results are using Elixir strings, an M149 in omni 2' away, and a cut at 300Hz on a Wunder PEQ (I actually prefer a 1073 for acoustics, but alas, I no longer have one on loan). Still, the lower mids are a little too resonant for my taste. I recently came across the suggestion to use blu-tack to dampen/mute the soundboard, and this certainly seems like a cool idea. Has anyone tried this? Are there similar/more effective solutions? 1) Avoid the sound hole.
2) Pull the mic back.... (Ah, I see you're currently at 2', that should be fine.
I play either a '59 J-200 or a '64 Guild D-40 and don't have boomy problems with either. Those are both BIG, resonant guitars.
Many people find that the 000 (or even 00) body sizes excel at recording. I definitely prefer a 000 Martin to a Martin Dreadnaught in nearly all cases.
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Post by johneppstein on Oct 11, 2019 16:01:24 GMT -6
Record the guitar outside on a nice day.... that will tell you how much the room is effecting it. cheers Wiz Preferably a day with no wind.... |
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Post by trakworxmastering on Oct 11, 2019 16:10:39 GMT -6
Try strumming slightly closer to the bridge and farther from the sound hole.
Try placing the mic 2 to 3 feet away, at chin height facing down toward the 14th fret.
Even with cardioid LDCs and figure eight ribbons those techniques work for me.
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 11, 2019 16:12:29 GMT -6
Wow, I rarely ever use HPF set so high as mentioned above on acoustics, but I also seldom use cardioid mics on acoustics. Come to think of it though, I've used plenty of ribbons, and still not so high. Sometimes a 6dB filter set higher and a 12dB filter set lower can work well. Man I think the DPA4011 is one of the best sounding guitar mics ever. But it's also one of the best cardioid mics ever.. And the filtering I believe is totally dependent on the genre and instrumentation that is happening. |
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Post by gouge on Oct 11, 2019 17:28:22 GMT -6
Wow, I rarely ever use HPF set so high as mentioned above on acoustics, but I also seldom use cardioid mics on acoustics. Come to think of it though, I've used plenty of ribbons, and still not so high. Sometimes a 6dB filter set higher and a 12dB filter set lower can work well. Man I think the DPA4011 is one of the best sounding guitar mics ever. But it's also one of the best cardioid mics ever.. And the filtering I believe is totally dependent on the genre and instrumentation that is happening. yup it is song dependant. |
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Post by mulmany on Oct 11, 2019 19:16:44 GMT -6
it might not be a physical fact of the guitars body. could be many things causing the boominess or muddyness. one of those is linked to intonation and may be that the resonance of the strings are not sympathetic. ie. the overtones are creating issues both accentuating frequencies and cancelling frequencies which can sound like muddyness and or boominess. whilst this is not specific to cello. mindfulcellist.wordpress.com/2015/04/03/resonance-tuning-tone-and-intonation-quick-update/I found on a particular guitar that slotting the bridge pin holes and using the non slotted side of the pins, fixed a lot of boominess. I am sure it changed how the strings coupled to the body and how the string tension was pushing on the top. It made a noticable difference for the better. |
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Post by bluegrassdan on Oct 12, 2019 6:46:34 GMT -6
Sounds like you need another guitar.
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Post by reddirt on Oct 12, 2019 7:51:35 GMT -6
Distance , placement and mic are where you have to concentrate; all the eq in the world won't prooerly fix recorded resonance IME .
Don't be afraid to try more distance, the mic in Omni and/or off to the neck side with a mic with the right sonic signature. E.G an 84 will probably exacerbate your issue even though it is widely acknowledged to be a great mic, just as micing the soundhole is not a goer.
This is a case when you have to use your ears and feel free to possibly break conventional wisdoms.
Cheers, Ross
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