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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 17, 2019 13:31:08 GMT -6
Regarding a ribbon, I realize it's the bit of "projection", on my part, as I'm planning to add a nice vocal ribbon mic in 2020. Chris I understand. I keep starring at the AEA R44C then reminding myself I don't really need it....
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 17, 2019 15:56:32 GMT -6
Really appreciate the thoughts, feedback, and consideration for possibly taking a quick stab at mixing. - I have used one of four manufacturers: Praise Hymn (one of the suppliers who offered their studio as well - looks like they've shut their website down), Daywind (In Nashville...I am an acquaintance of the VP of Music Publishing, Rick Shelton), Christian World Soundtraks (Oklahoma), and Wordtracks (no more website for them either). I've got my own theories as to why the resources are drying up, and unfortunately that means less options and more challenges going forward. I'll contact CW and DW to see if they offer individual tracks. - Shoe, I have - Preamps: Roll Music Tubule, MA5, P1, DRS1-500, GAP Pre73 | EQ: Kush Electra 500 series | Compressors: IGS OneLA, DBX 560A | Board: Soundcraft Spirit M4. I was just looking at Martin's post yesterday regarding his question on the SSL Six, and wondering if that may be a better way to go with its onboard track and bus compression. I'll make every effort to record in the next few days and make the vocal and backing tracks available as separate files to anyone interested. IIRC (and I could be mistaken but don't think so), the comps on that SSL board are seriously compromised if you're expecting anything like the full featured standalone units or the comps built into their full size boards.
Waste of money if you ask me. The unit gives me the impression that it's aimed at well heeled hobbyists who just want the bragging rights of claiming to have a real SSL console - which it really isn't. And who probably aren't sophisticated or experienced enough to understand the difference.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 17, 2019 16:04:03 GMT -6
If I was getting into that kind of thing... I'd also check out the new(ish)Toft consoles. Some years back Neil Young & Stephen Stills each got one. Chris
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 17, 2019 16:14:31 GMT -6
Another thing - how do you "mix" on a mixer with only two channels?
There is not one function on the SSL SiX that isn't severely compromised. 2 channel EQ. One knob channel comps. Two knob "buss comp" that AFAIK can't be reassigned.
Spend your money on a used Soundcraft with 16 channels, which is enough for a small mix or for tracking a small combo. Spend the money you save on a decent outboard compressor, a roll of masking tape, and a sharpie. Use the sharpie to write "SSL" on a piece of tape and use it to cover up the Soundcraft logo.
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Post by notneeson on Sept 17, 2019 16:14:45 GMT -6
If I was getting into that kind of thing... I'd also check out the new(ish)Toft consoles. Some years back Neil Young & Stephen Stills each got one. Chris NY has several consoles that he's pretty fanatic about using on his records. I know my buddy who works for him said they picked up a Speck LiLo at one point too but they haven't ended up using it. Hard to imagine something like the Toft getting used on one of his productions.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 17, 2019 17:58:01 GMT -6
My understanding was that each Toft console, was for home use. Whereas my "consoles" are Mackies! Chris
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Post by notneeson on Sept 17, 2019 18:14:57 GMT -6
My understanding was that each Toft console, was for home use. Whereas my "consoles" are Mackies! Chris Maybe so, kinda odd since he had the Neve at the Ranch and then an entire theater in Oxnard that he took over for recording after he moved south. Those guys are charged with hitting record when they hear the boss pull up in the parking lot.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 17, 2019 18:23:54 GMT -6
Cool. This info was from the PMI guys themselves FWIW. Chris
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Post by Guitar on Sept 17, 2019 18:51:59 GMT -6
SSL mixer has a weird "workaround" where you can get 6 channels in I believe.
One pseudo-relevant point I will add is that you should watch the John and Yoko documentary, and the Warren Huart episode where he talks to Jack Douglas about the John Lennon album 'Double Fantasy'
John could "catch" plosives by waving his hand in front of the mic at the exact right moment! I don't remember if there were any sibilance tricks but Lennon used no pop screen for one thing and was pretty darn close to the mic in the footage in the documentary film.
To hear Jack's account of working with Lennon is worth your time. Hearing praise for Yoko is necessary.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 17, 2019 21:33:16 GMT -6
SSL mixer has a weird "workaround" where you can get 6 channels in I believe. One pseudo-relevant point I will add is that you should watch the John and Yoko documentary, and the Warren Huart episode where he talks to Jack Douglas about the John Lennon album 'Double Fantasy' John could "catch" plosives by waving his hand in front of the mic at the exact right moment! I don't remember if there were any sibilance tricks but Lennon used no pop screen for one thing and was pretty darn close to the mic in the footage in the documentary film. To hear Jack's account of working with Lennon is worth your time. Hearing praise for Yoko is necessary. "Six channels in"?
Really?
It only has two channel faders. and only two (badly crippled) EQ sections. You can't mix six channels properly with only two faders.
The little 12 channel Soundcraft live console I just got has better than that and only set me back $350. 3 band EQ with swept mid.
Such "workarounds" are nothing more than sales hoopla.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 17, 2019 21:38:02 GMT -6
SSL mixer has a weird "workaround" where you can get 6 channels in I believe. One pseudo-relevant point I will add is that you should watch the John and Yoko documentary, and the Warren Huart episode where he talks to Jack Douglas about the John Lennon album 'Double Fantasy' John could "catch" plosives by waving his hand in front of the mic at the exact right moment! I don't remember if there were any sibilance tricks but Lennon used no pop screen for one thing and was pretty darn close to the mic in the footage in the documentary film. To hear Jack's account of working with Lennon is worth your time. Hearing praise for Yoko is necessary. "Six channels in"?
Really?
It only has two channel faders. You can't mix six channels properly with only two faders.
Such "workarounds" are nothing more than sales hoopla.
No I've seen them do it in a video. Something to do with parallel mix inputs and things that are labeled "differently" to how you can use them normally. Some of them probably end up unbalanced, without a fader, etc, I don't recall exactly. It's a weird, complex little mixer.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 17, 2019 22:22:38 GMT -6
"Six channels in"?
Really?
It only has two channel faders. You can't mix six channels properly with only two faders.
Such "workarounds" are nothing more than sales hoopla.
No I've seen them do it in a video. Something to do with parallel mix inputs and things that are labeled "differently" to how you can use them normally. Some of them probably end up unbalanced, without a fader, etc, I don't recall exactly. It's a weird, complex little mixer. Right. Not real channels in. Not what you need to really mix, not that six channels is enough, anyway. It's sales weasel BS.
It's like calling my 32 channel Soundcraft DC 2020 a "64 input console" which it is, technically, except that my console is an inline config with two faders per channel and the ability to split the 4 band EQ into two sections, one for the "main" side and one for the "monitor" side - which the SSL can't do because it only has one real fader per channel and only has 2 band EQ. And I STILL would not want to use my Soundcraft for more than a 32 channel mix. (Fortunately I could bring in my 28 channel (they call it "32") baby Midas if I really needed the extra channels.)
The SSL isn't an inline console and doesn't have enough EQ to split. It's a toy. It can't do any of the things I want to use a real console for. It doesn't even have enough inputs to use as a proper summing mixer. It's a 2 channel mixer with a couple of auxes. Auxes aren't real channels.
Lets get something straight - for mixing purposes if it doesn't have both a gain control and a fader it isn't a real channel. No matter what trickery the sales weasels try to promote. I wouldn't buy one of those if it was $500.
I couldn't do anything resembling a real mix on that thing.
Please do yourself a favor - don't belive the hype. Buy a real mixer, like a nice used Soundcraft.
SSL did get one thing right in their ad copy - it would be a KILLER mixer for podcasts.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 17, 2019 22:30:33 GMT -6
It's a HIGH QUALITY TOY, exactly. Fits in a little place your DC 2020 can never go, like a tiny ninja.
It's really hard to find the right mixer, much much harder than finding other kinds of gear, except maybe vocal mics.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 17, 2019 22:53:39 GMT -6
It's a HIGH QUALITY TOY, exactly. Fits in a little place your DC 2020 can never go, like a tiny ninja. It's really hard to find the right mixer, much much harder than finding other kinds of gear, except maybe vocal mics. Actually, I'd take the 2020 hands down, any day, although it does have its drawbacks. But those drawbacks don't have anything to do with the audio or the mix ability. The automation computer is a little flaky and the channels are in 8 channel buckets, not seperate modules, which makes maintenance harder. But it only cost me 6 grand, for a $70,000 console. The EQ is great - I have a SCAMP parametric module in my rack, the same EQ module as in the ADR Vocal Stressor, and I've never had to reach for it even once.
As to "tiny", if that's what you want,you probably don't want a console. Although there are a lot of very good little mixers much more compact than a 2020.
It's not an API, but I haven't seen a used API 32 (or even 24) channel for under 10 grand since the early '80s.
What I HAVE seen dirt cheap are Midas (UK) touring consoles.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 17, 2019 23:06:28 GMT -6
I have heard that the pre-Behringer Midas boards are pretty special in general.
I own a DM16 with "Midas" preamps. The hliarious part is their wireless mixers are available at different prices with "Midas" preamps or "Midas PRO" preamps. . . WTF?
For a while they were sticking the DDA name on there too but they simplified and took the logo off.
The other hilarious part about the DM16 is it's a literal layout clone of a Soundcraft cheap mixer but I forget the model number.
Cost me about $300 new and I use it all the time now.
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