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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 5, 2019 18:50:01 GMT -6
Again lol. Was thinking about trying one of the Supro Keely amps with the master volume...and buying some pedals. I love the Kemper and it’s terribly convenient...but there IS a sameness to the profiles.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 5, 2019 18:50:31 GMT -6
Maybe there’s a just sameness to my playing.
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Post by Ward on Sept 5, 2019 19:00:17 GMT -6
Have you tried the Fractal Axe FX 3 yet? Something about it sounds more believable.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 5, 2019 19:09:10 GMT -6
I’ve only used real amps, for me, there is something about each real signal chain decision: guitar, ( pick ups) pedals, amp, settings, mike type and position, pre, comp (settings), that makes it all real.
Fancy digital shit : nope, but you know when you hit the right tone and then you are there, punch record and dance fingers dance !!
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Post by svart on Sept 5, 2019 19:16:57 GMT -6
Have you tried the Fractal Axe FX 3 yet? Something about it sounds more believable. I've heard it. I'm a die hard amp guy and I'm thinking about it.. is probably the most believable of them all now. It's remarkably touch sensitive, which is what I've always felt was lacking in sims.
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Post by Ward on Sept 5, 2019 19:31:01 GMT -6
Have you tried the Fractal Axe FX 3 yet? Something about it sounds more believable. I've heard it. I'm a die hard amp guy and I'm thinking about it.. is probably the most believable of them all now. It's remarkably touch sensitive, which is what I've always felt was lacking in sims. I've only succumbed to two emulation devices. 1. Marshall JMP1 preampo from 1995. Still going strong! Absolutely amaazing 2. Digidesign 11 Rack. Does some pretty decent Vox and Fender Emulations but right now the contender for 3. is the Fractal Axe FX3. It sounds believable. AND I AM AN AMP GUY TOO!! 39 and counting. My amp collection is sick to the point of obscene.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 5, 2019 19:36:40 GMT -6
Again lol. Was thinking about trying one of the Supro Keely amps with the master volume...and buying some pedals. I love the Kemper and it’s terribly convenient...but there IS a sameness to the profiles. That Supro looks sweet. I’ve been thinking about moving on from the Kemper lately myself. I’d need to build an iso box or something if I wanna track an amp, though. I’m just not having fun or feeling inspired by the Kemper. I’m sure it’s all in my head, but sometimes it feels a little flat.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 5, 2019 20:02:41 GMT -6
Have you tried the Fractal Axe FX 3 yet? Something about it sounds more believable. $2400. Not really wanting to pay more
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 5, 2019 20:05:56 GMT -6
Again lol. Was thinking about trying one of the Supro Keely amps with the master volume...and buying some pedals. I love the Kemper and it’s terribly convenient...but there IS a sameness to the profiles. That Supro looks sweet. I’ve been thinking about moving on from the Kemper lately myself. I’d need to build an iso box or something if I wanna track an amp, though. I’m just not having fun or feeling inspired by the Kemper. I’m sure it’s all in my head, but sometimes it feels a little flat. Well, that’s kindve why I seem to always end up buying one back. I start thinking exactly the above, sell it. Try other stuff, buy the Kemper back and go “holy shit, it sounds great...” So - maybe I’ll just buy from SW and have the ability to return it.
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Post by levon on Sept 6, 2019 2:23:32 GMT -6
Again lol. Was thinking about trying one of the Supro Keely amps with the master volume...and buying some pedals. I love the Kemper and it’s terribly convenient...but there IS a sameness to the profiles. Lol, people like you keep the economy going...
A guy played some tracks for me recently using the Axe FX. I'd have preferred an amp, the Axe sounded pretty good but somewhat sterile. I reamped the tracks through a clean Marshall and a 4x12 and blended the two signals, that improved it. In general, I always use real amps for recording, it's just more alive to me.
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Post by bricejchandler on Sept 6, 2019 4:34:38 GMT -6
Hey John, I've gone through this exact process. I used to have my own little studio space where I could blast amps as loud as possible but unfortunately had to move and couldn't find a nice space so decided to see what I could get going at home. Anyway I got the Kemper and never bonded with it, I thought most of the sounds just sounded very similar and didn't enjoy the interface much. If it had been like $600 I would've kept it but I just found it way too expensive honestly for what it did ( for my tastes and needs ). Tried the Axe FX 1 and 2 , same thing, tried about every plug in imaginable and just couldn't get anything that sounded like what I wanted. The possiblities are endless with these products but personally, I don't need endless sounds. Anyway I discovered some guy in Germany who builds an AMAZING iso cab, it's called the Grossmann SG BOX, it's not cheap but for me it's an amazing value, the build quality is second to none and the sound is the best I've heard from an Iso cab, I tried the Randall one and that was a phase nightmare, it was absolutely horrible. I already owned a couple amps and speakers so this is the perfect thing for me. I don't have a huge collection but it's enough for my needs, I've got A 64 princeton, A reissue 57 deluxe head and a Vox AC15 plus , a Celestion Blue, Greenback and a couple old Oxford speakers. I set up the Grossmann in my closet, I have two mics set up permanently that feed a mic preamp that's plugged into my Apogee. When I want to record, it's just as fast a using a plug in or Kemper, I turn my amp on, turn Protools on, set the gain on my preamp and that's it, I'm ready to rock and no latency whatsoever. Now I must admit, I still think that my amps sound better in a nice studio with great acoustics, the Iso box does sound a little dry and depending on the speaker the high end can sound a little hard. I always had a tendency to mic my amps with ribbon mics at least a foot away, sometimes a lot more, I like to hear the room in my recordings; obviously I'm not doing that anymore, it's a different sound but for now it's working out, and most importantly, I want to write music, it's brought back the fun of using my real amps, I'm way more inspired and in the end, since most of my work is songwriting that has been priceless. Here are some sounds I've recorded with it. All these are completely unprocessed, this is an SM57 into an API into my converters, no comp, eq. All these were recorded with my Celestion Blue I'm pretty sure. Most of them are from preproduction of a band I'm working with and a couple others are just me testing out a new reverb pedal into my Princeton. www.dropbox.com/sh/canq78l6eree3fl/AABuNr5Q3cB_9ceMCOYIdw8ma?dl=0Oh and some of you are probably wondering how much it isolates, well it's not a completely silent solution, sound still comes through so if like me you live in an apartment building, you're not gonna be diming a Fender Deluxe at 1am, but to give you an idea, I play my Princeton with everything on 10 everyday and I've never ever had anybody complain or even really notice so for small wattage amps it's perfect.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 6, 2019 4:47:28 GMT -6
The great thing about it is how easy it is to audition different sounds- more or less distortion, effects etc- when arranging a song. I wish I had one for that purpose, and then use a real amp with real pedals for recording after I knew what the sounds of the guitar arrangement was.
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Post by jdc on Sept 6, 2019 6:34:23 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 6, 2019 8:20:18 GMT -6
Again lol. Was thinking about trying one of the Supro Keely amps with the master volume...and buying some pedals. I love the Kemper and it’s terribly convenient...but there IS a sameness to the profiles. Lol, people like you keep the economy going... A guy played some tracks for me recently using the Axe FX. I'd have preferred an amp, the Axe sounded pretty good but somewhat sterile. I reamped the tracks through a clean Marshall and a 4x12 and blended the two signals, that improved it. In general, I always use real amps for recording, it's just more alive to me. I think that's the thing I'm feeling a little. Look - I know you guys are tired of hearing me selling and re-buying Kempers (this is No.5 I think? lol) - but that's what a message board is for, right? I think the Kemper is fantastic - I really do...and maybe I'm totally feeling uninspired because of my playing and not the Kemper (Indian not the arrow)...but sometimes I feel like no matter what I use, it has the same general sound to it. Like a plasticky thing. Maybe the way to describe it is this...it's a perfect snapshot of the way an amp sounds at THAT setting and THAT dynamic. But real amps bloom and honk and feedback and chuff and sound different with different dynamics. So - I think I'm gonna try that Supro. It definitely won't be as convenient, but I wonder if I will be happier with the result. Maybe I'll just buy like a catch-all Line 6 pedal.
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Post by ragan on Sept 6, 2019 9:31:06 GMT -6
Lol, people like you keep the economy going... A guy played some tracks for me recently using the Axe FX. I'd have preferred an amp, the Axe sounded pretty good but somewhat sterile. I reamped the tracks through a clean Marshall and a 4x12 and blended the two signals, that improved it. In general, I always use real amps for recording, it's just more alive to me. I think that's the thing I'm feeling a little. Look - I know you guys are tired of hearing me selling and re-buying Kempers (this is No.5 I think? lol) - but that's what a message board is for, right? I think the Kemper is fantastic - I really do...and maybe I'm totally feeling uninspired because of my playing and not the Kemper (Indian not the arrow)...but sometimes I feel like no matter what I use, it has the same general sound to it. Like a plasticky thing. Maybe the way to describe it is this...it's a perfect snapshot of the way an amp sounds at THAT setting and THAT dynamic. But real amps bloom and honk and feedback and chuff and sound different with different dynamics. So - I think I'm gonna try that Supro. It definitely won't be as convenient, but I wonder if I will be happier with the result. Maybe I'll just buy like a catch-all Line 6 pedal. I’m 2 Kempers behind you at 3. But same. You’re not wrong about the Sameness in my view.
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Post by christopher on Sept 6, 2019 10:12:34 GMT -6
I hope this is relevant to this thread.. has anyone tried the ToneKing attenuators? I see they have a new one out. The videos online sound good, but they never turn it down to minimum loudness. I wonder if this could be a solution for real tone? All my amps are too loud for recording at home.. culdesac, single pane windows. I never go past 1.5 on the volume and that’s still too much.
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Post by indiehouse on Sept 6, 2019 11:14:38 GMT -6
Lol, people like you keep the economy going... A guy played some tracks for me recently using the Axe FX. I'd have preferred an amp, the Axe sounded pretty good but somewhat sterile. I reamped the tracks through a clean Marshall and a 4x12 and blended the two signals, that improved it. In general, I always use real amps for recording, it's just more alive to me. I think that's the thing I'm feeling a little. Look - I know you guys are tired of hearing me selling and re-buying Kempers (this is No.5 I think? lol) - but that's what a message board is for, right? I think the Kemper is fantastic - I really do...and maybe I'm totally feeling uninspired because of my playing and not the Kemper (Indian not the arrow)...but sometimes I feel like no matter what I use, it has the same general sound to it. Like a plasticky thing. Maybe the way to describe it is this...it's a perfect snapshot of the way an amp sounds at THAT setting and THAT dynamic. But real amps bloom and honk and feedback and chuff and sound different with different dynamics. So - I think I'm gonna try that Supro. It definitely won't be as convenient, but I wonder if I will be happier with the result. Maybe I'll just buy like a catch-all Line 6 pedal. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Supro. I put myself on a spending freeze or else I'd try it out myself. Sounds good and at a good price.
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Post by longscale on Sept 6, 2019 14:53:24 GMT -6
Tube amps can inspire for sure. I find them more fun to use if I'm trying to write a song by getting inspiration from noodling or a tone, or simply inspired by the volume and excitement of the amp and guitar turned up loud. There is a sameness that I battle as well with the Kemper. I fight it by making my own profiles, and building up a small collection of goto sounds. In that respect I'm using it to pick pre-selected tones that I want to support a song, not using it to inspire me to write a song. But then I get stuck in a that ditch too - where I play back demo's and I'm like welp that is my 59 tweed champ cranked, that is my 65 Vox ac4, that sound is my Matchless Lightning. IOW because the profiles are perfect and I specifically limited myself on purpose I can pick the sounds out quickly (which tends to mean they bore me). If I mic the amp directly - I can still pick out the sounds but unless I've dropped tape on the floor and on the grill of the cab I don't tend to get exactly the same sound back from a live rig. There are way more variables involved...amp settings, pedal settings, mic placement. The Kemper makes that 100% solid every time; which is both a blessing and a curse for me. I suppose what I'm saying is I suck at getting NEW inspired tones from my Kemper from scratch. But I still like the box quite a bit because it gets me playing at hours I'd not be able to otherwise. I've been using the Kemper more on bass too lately and I like it.
What I tend to do now is I record the Kemper along with a direct so I could re-amp later if I really wanted a real amp sound. I tell myself I'll spend the time later to get something really awesome. Typically I just decide my song sucks and move on. rofl
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Post by jeremygillespie on Sept 6, 2019 18:26:44 GMT -6
I hope this is relevant to this thread.. has anyone tried the ToneKing attenuators? I see they have a new one out. The videos online sound good, but they never turn it down to minimum loudness. I wonder if this could be a solution for real tone? All my amps are too loud for recording at home.. culdesac, single pane windows. I never go past 1.5 on the volume and that’s still too much. Buy a beat up silverface champ from the 70’s, send it to Skip Simmons, and when you get it home you can crank it to the bejesus and won’t bother anybody and it will sound absolutely fantastic and take a beating with pedals pretty well too.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 6, 2019 18:40:17 GMT -6
Bought a used Supro 1970 Keeley.
Meh. I’m a dumbass. Should have bought it new so I could return. Now I gotta flip it. I bet if I had multiple pedals I’d like it more...and I just miked it with with the 251 - but it didn’t sound dramatically different than what it sounded like in the room...don’t know if I want to chase after trying to make it better. Then I’d have a bunch of pedals to sell too if I didn’t like it. I dialed up a Princeton on the Kemper and actually preferred it.
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Post by donr on Sept 6, 2019 22:21:05 GMT -6
I was going to suggest something like this, or the Two-Notes Torpedo with the Kemper. Or just using a loud fullrange monitor or speaker cab in a room with a mic. So much of what's apparentily "missing" with devices like Kemper is sound of the guitar in your own space. Is why the best recorded profiles are the ones that impress, and lesser ones are indifferent. Another aspect is the interaction between the volume of a real amp and the guitar in a room. The acoustic interaction will make a guitar more responsive compared to playing through near field monitors at ear or lease saving volume. I won't say that any digital device could be superior to the amp and guitar it means to replicate, but the difference as far as the track which went into the mix coming out of the playback medium to the ears of the end listener is not really that much. Of course if the difference affects the enthusiasm and therefore the quality of product of the music creator, that's another story.
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Post by jdc on Sept 7, 2019 9:04:50 GMT -6
Agreed donr, I think the excitement that comes through when feeling physically connected to your amp through your guitar is that extra 5% that can turn some performances magical.
The Kemper sounds like a recorded guitar rig and in a way inaccessible as an extension of the musician. I love mine for use as a scratch pad at home but if I want to feel like I'm creating a song in a room I need a real amp to move real air.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 7, 2019 9:44:21 GMT -6
Another aspect is the interaction between the volume of a real amp and the guitar in a room. The acoustic interaction will make a guitar more responsive compared to playing through near field monitors at ear or lease saving volume. Don, when you record your amp/performance, do you play in front of your cabinet with monitoring speakers playing the backing track to get a feel for it, and then record it with headphones on and the monitoring speakers off? I often struggle with getting the right textures from my guitar playing, and I wonder if it's because I'm recording the amps in the other room, while I'm monitoring on my mixing speakers. So, I'm curious about playing in front of my amp with a comparable volume level of the backing track in the room.
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Post by wiz on Sept 7, 2019 14:33:56 GMT -6
It all depends on the sound you want.... I am playing guitar on my own tracks , so in a way I let the muse dictate.. I don’t use guitar pedals in the studio. I have three main amps.... tone king imperial, ac30, and a Marshall jtm1 I have lots of guitars but usually it’s either on of the two Strats, a les Paul or a Sheraton. Usually I am,playing against bass drums and acoustic guitar at this point in the song. I grab a guitar and plug in to an amp, and plonk the Rode NTR ribbon in front plugged into a 1073 BAE preamp, and turn knobs and play. The mic position is the simplest of the process with that mic ... about 6 inches to a foot ...in the center of the speaker. I change guitars and amps if needed, the whole process takes less than 5 minutes. Then I do a few takes and done..usually two takes. This helps out in a couple of ways. One, the “art” stays in my playing. Because it’s all fast to happen and I am using really just the creative side of my brain. I am not interacting with the mouse and menus etc, for me this was a big revelation. The second thing, as I do real instruments, all tracked here, they fit together sonically because of the nature of real instruments all tracked through microphones in a room.... I think of it like a painting...I can paint what I like... and I like what I paint. It it would be a different story if I had to paint what other people like, which I imagine is what you Johnkenn are dealing with in some ways.....the commercial expectations. So so I would imagine the amp in a room might not be the best way for you. Perhaps dealing with the Kemper in a limited way might be more successful? Get a set of a limited number of presets and use those to stop paralysis by analysis. Also maybe a couple of amps as well a fender junior or Princeton, a newer (cheaper) second hand ac30, and Marshall JTM1 and a rode NTR ribbon would be my advice if you went that way. Cheers Wiz
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Post by donr on Sept 7, 2019 22:24:16 GMT -6
Another aspect is the interaction between the volume of a real amp and the guitar in a room. The acoustic interaction will make a guitar more responsive compared to playing through near field monitors at ear or lease saving volume. Don, when you record your amp/performance, do you play in front of your cabinet with monitoring speakers playing the backing track to get a feel for it, and then record it with headphones on and the monitoring speakers off? I often struggle with getting the right textures from my guitar playing, and I wonder if it's because I'm recording the amps in the other room, while I'm monitoring on my mixing speakers. So, I'm curious about playing in front of my amp with a comparable volume level of the backing track in the room. I started doing lead parts from the control room in the '80's and never looked back, unless I specifically wanted to get feedback by standing close to the amp and speakers, which I'd use headphones and earplugs, if it was really loud. I've been using in-ear monitors live for years now, and I'm comfortable with the sound of mic'ed cabs and now cab IR's for the vibe of how I play. One reason I'm as high on the Kemper as I am is, when I first got it, I shopped for a pair of full range powered PA speakers, choosing QSC K-10's as most sonically faithful. The original Kemper "toaster" into the K-10's, cranked really loud, as loud as a half stack, is MOST satisfying to play. It's still not an amp, and I recognize that, but it's a rewarding instrument to play that's capable of delivering a convincing guitar recording or listening experience. So I can play the Kemper through say, JBL 305's at reasonable volume and know I don't need to hear it at live level to know it'll work in a mix. I am missing the feedback interaction thing, but if I want that, I'll stand next to an amp, or the K-10's.
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