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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 27, 2019 11:44:06 GMT -6
I'm comparing these two capsules. Currently the SA67 with the Heiserman capsule has a Telefunken EF86 tube, and the Tim Campbell capsule mic has a Siemens tube. I will swap the tubes to see which I prefer later, but for now, let me know which mic you prefer, #1 or #2. All Mic #1 tracks are the same mic, all Mic #2 Tracks are the same mic. For purposes of the comparison, I recorded as flat as can be, no compression at all, no EQ, just a slight pinch of reverb. I matched levels as best as I could.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/sa67-ac-gtr-mic-1 https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/sa67-ac-gtr-mic-2 https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/sa67-solo-vocal-mic-1 https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/sa67-solo-vocal-mic-2 https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/sa67-ac-gtr-vocal-mic-1 https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/sa67-ac-gtr-vocal-mic-2
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Post by stam on Jul 27, 2019 13:30:17 GMT -6
Thanks very much for doing this Martin, appreciate it!.....Mic 1 which I guess is the Heiserman, is darker and at first glance may be tempting to choose over mic 2 in the context of Vocal or Vocal guitar without much around it, it seemed a touch louder in a few places or words but I think that's because certain words brought out the lower mid/bottom freq bump a little here and there. It's definitely darker over all especially on top. --- Mic 2 I'm guessing is the TC cap and has much more detail info and seems more evenly balanced across the Freq spectrum making it easier to sit in a busy mix from the get go or take EQ I'm thinking. They both sounded good but I'd take Mic 2 for those reasons,..thinking that to a dark mic you can add highs or cut bottom and it works, but it's not exactly the same as a even mic capable of more detail you can add whatever eq you want to more easily and still have that detail info. I'm guessing that Telefunken F86 tube in what I think is the heiserman mic 1 may be the better tube between the two, and would like to hear that tube in your mic 2 I believe is the more detailed TC cap mk2 version. I sang through a 67 reissue at a VK where it had great detail but for my voice seemed to be a little light on the low/mid bottom,.. but have come to read and hear clips since then that some who have bought the reissue have put in a NOS Telefunkn EF86 or 806S or tube for some of those reasons. From the clips I heard, I thought the 806s took the reissue up another notch. I'd love to hear more takes if you swap tubes! Thanks! Unless there is a typo here I am quite surprised Take 2 sounds much darker to me than take 1 on the Acoustic Guitar and it's quite dramatic, specially on the mids and high mids. On vocals I find the differences to be more subtle or less dramatic
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Post by nick8801 on Jul 27, 2019 13:49:31 GMT -6
I like whatever the first examples are. There is a little more presence that makes it feel finished, where with #2 I feel I would reach for some kind of processing. Both sound really great but #1 is my preference.
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Post by mike on Jul 27, 2019 13:54:59 GMT -6
Unless there is a typo here I am quite surprised Take 2 sounds much darker to me than take 1 on the Acoustic Guitar and it's quite dramatic, specially on the mids and high mids. On vocals I find the differences to be more subtle or less dramatic
Yes, got so busy with the over analysis I wrote them backwards and corrected it. Mic 1 has the top/detail
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Post by ragan on Jul 27, 2019 13:55:40 GMT -6
Mic 1 is definitely the brighter of the two.
I'm of two minds. I like things about each of them. I think 1 has a better sense of 'realness' to it. But I like that 2 has some of the characteristic U67 smoothness. Mic 1 has quite a bit of air for a U67. Not harsh though.
I think I lean towards mic 1 overall, though I wish I could incorporate a bit of mic 2's smoothness.
Thanks for posting, Martin.
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Post by NoTomorrow on Jul 27, 2019 14:17:02 GMT -6
I much prefer mic 1 here.....
Toward the end of the combined performance the midrange on mic 2 is squashed when your vocal goes up in pitch and you're singing louder..... it almost sounds compressed.
Joshua/Martin... question.... so have there been 3 total capsules used in the SA-67 in it's lifetime (Heisermann, Campbell and Dany Bouchard)? Also, will I be able to tell by looking at the capsule itself? If so I'll pop the hood on mine and see what's in it. I don't see a serial number on the mic anywhere.... I suppose that would be one way to find out. I bought it used so I don't know what's inside.
I do know that I dig the sound of the mic... and that the 3 tubes I have all sound different in it. A Philips NOS that it came with, a Telefunken and a Valvo. The Telefunken is brighter than the Philips..... although it may just seem that way because it also clarifies the low mids a lot. I really like both the Philips (smoother) and the Telefunken (more accurate). The Valvo is kind of a neutered Philips to my ear.
The different tubes make it like having 2 mics. I swap for different things.
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Post by NoTomorrow on Jul 27, 2019 15:12:16 GMT -6
I opened it up..... there is some writing on the side of the capsule. Any idea what it is?
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Post by phantom on Jul 27, 2019 15:22:26 GMT -6
Mic 1 is definitely the brighter of the two. I'm of two minds. I like things about each of them. I think 1 has a better sense of 'realness' to it. But I like that 2 has some of the characteristic U67 smoothness. Mic 1 has quite a bit of air for a U67. Not harsh though. I think I lean towards mic 1 overall, though I wish I could incorporate a bit of mic 2's smoothness. Thanks for posting, Martin. Yeah, i have basically the same opinion. I would choose Mic 1 because it seems bigger, more upfront in a good way. But it has a lot of top end for a 67. Not harsh, but not that tipical smoothness. Mic 2 has a much more controlled high end, but it lacks body and presence imo. Btw, the two mics are very different from each other. I would easilly say that they are not supposed to be the same model.
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Post by drbill on Jul 27, 2019 15:24:20 GMT -6
I'm comparing these two capsules. Currently the SA67 with the Heiserman capsule has a Telefunken EF86 tube, and the Tim Campbell capsule mic has a Siemens tube. Martin - although a serious pita, you might consider swapping the telefunken tube to both and using the ONE tube for both mics in your examples, as the Siemens vs. Telefunken differences are going to seriously skew what you may BELIEVE to be a capsule difference. Just my $0.02.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 27, 2019 15:42:58 GMT -6
Don't disagree drill. I wanted to get started, and so I just used what was in each mic, so I'll consider this Part I. My next move will be to try the Telefunken 806S in the TC mic. Just for kicks I will try the Siemens in the Heiserman, just so I know. In a bigger mix, I think Mic 1 would sit better. I do like the push in the low end of mic 2, it's quite 67-ish in that regard. But that said, the transparency and detail of Mic 1 wins me over. It would be very cool if the EF86 added a pinch more low end to Mic 1, then it would be a monster, like Ragan described.
We'll see soon, probably won't have tracking time until Monday afternoon.
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Post by brenta on Jul 27, 2019 15:57:51 GMT -6
Thanks for doing this. Mic 1 definitely brighter, mic 2 is richer in the low mids. I like mic 2 a lot better here. I'm interested to hear what happens when you swap tubes or use the same tube in each.
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Post by stam on Jul 27, 2019 15:59:21 GMT -6
Both tubes perform the same
They are the same brand, we tested them before shipment
Identical tone
What is heard on here is the capsule
I should clarify we have never used a Bouchard made K67, I don't think he makes one
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Post by stam on Jul 27, 2019 16:02:06 GMT -6
I opened it up..... there is some writing on the side of the capsule. Any idea what it is? Heiserman
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 27, 2019 16:12:38 GMT -6
Thanks Joshua. First, I want to say congratulations and sincere thanks for making such a great mic that's affordable when compared to the reissue and vintage models. I feel like you really brought the 67 sound within reach for many of us. It honestly doesn't feel "clonish" if that makes any sense. It just feels 67-ish to me, and I'm really picky about these things.
Will it equal a vintage model, maybe, probably not exactly, but I have a strong sense it will stand up next to a $7,000 reissue, which is really amazing. For the guys here at Real Gear, I will be going to a world class studio in a few weeks to compare the SA67 to a vintage U67 and I'll be making a video of that comparison, so keep tuned in.
I'm really looking forward to trying the 806S is the TC version, just in case there's any difference, even if there shouldn't be. I'll post those files here asap.
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Post by wiz on Jul 27, 2019 16:31:00 GMT -6
I thought mic 1 was a fair bit better
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 27, 2019 16:32:17 GMT -6
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 27, 2019 17:00:39 GMT -6
I'm so glad to hear you like this Martin.
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 27, 2019 18:14:37 GMT -6
I'm comparing these two capsules. Currently the SA67 with the Heiserman capsule has a Telefunken EF86 tube, and the Tim Campbell capsule mic has a Siemens tube. Martin - although a serious pita, you might consider swapping the telefunken tube to both and using the ONE tube for both mics in your examples, as the Siemens vs. Telefunken differences are going to seriously skew what you may BELIEVE to be a capsule difference. Just my $0.02. Agree 1000% Tubes make a HUGE difference in this circuit.
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 27, 2019 18:17:40 GMT -6
Both tubes perform the same They are the same brand, we tested them before shipment Identical tone What is heard on here is the capsule I should clarify we have never used a Bouchard made K67, I don't think he makes one Same brand? I thought one was a Telefunken and one was a Siemens? Am I missing something?
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Post by drbill on Jul 27, 2019 18:19:31 GMT -6
Martin - although a serious pita, you might consider swapping the telefunken tube to both and using the ONE tube for both mics in your examples, as the Siemens vs. Telefunken differences are going to seriously skew what you may BELIEVE to be a capsule difference. Just my $0.02. Agree 1000% Tubes make a HUGE difference in this circuit. Obviously I totally agree.....and yet..... stam said:"Both tubes perform the same They are the same brand, we tested them before shipment Identical tone" Not sure what to make of that, but yeah, IME, tubes make a huge difference.....even tubes branded the same, from a similar time period.
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 27, 2019 18:32:01 GMT -6
Agree 1000% Tubes make a HUGE difference in this circuit. Obviously I totally agree.....and yet..... stam said:"Both tubes perform the same They are the same brand, we tested them before shipment Identical tone" Not sure what to make of that, but yeah, IME, tubes make a huge difference.....even tubes branded the same, from a similar time period. I have two Telefunken branded EF86 tubes and had them side by side in two otherwise identical “U67” mics and they sounded pretty different to me.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 27, 2019 18:40:45 GMT -6
Definitely get that tubes matter, (I'm a guitar player after all), so I'll give the tube switch a try in the Mk II T.C cap mic ASAP. I wouldn't mind just the slightest pinch of more low end while keeping the transparency and lack of sibilance.
I think Josh may have meant those tubes sounded similar enough as to be negligible, but since it's here, I'll give it a try just in case.
*** Update: I just checked on the tubes, the Heiserman mic has a Telefunken 806S, I don't see an "EF" but it could be around the side I can't see until I pull it out. The T.C cap mic has the Siemens EF86 (260).
Now I'm getting even more curious. Can't wait to try switching them tomorrow or Monday.
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Post by drbill on Jul 27, 2019 19:52:16 GMT -6
You know what they say - one mans negligible is another mans massive
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Post by NoTomorrow on Jul 27, 2019 20:00:14 GMT -6
I opened it up..... there is some writing on the side of the capsule. Any idea what it is? Heiserman Ok thanks
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Post by damoongo on Jul 27, 2019 20:03:20 GMT -6
Definitely get that tubes matter, (I'm a guitar player after all), so I'll give the tube switch a try in the Mk II T.C cap mic ASAP. I wouldn't mind just the slightest pinch of more low end while keeping the transparency and lack of sibilance. I think Josh may have meant those tubes sounded similar enough as to be negligible, but since it's here, I'll give it a try just in case. *** Update: I just checked on the tubes, the Heiserman mic has a Telefunken 806S, I don't see an "EF" but it could be around the side I can't see until I pull it out. The T.C cap mic has the Siemens EF86 (260).
Now I'm getting even more curious. Can't wait to try switching them tomorrow or Monday. 806s is the “long life” version of EF86.
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