|
Post by Quint on Jul 3, 2019 5:23:08 GMT -6
It seems like I get multiple emails a week telling me that various Waves plugins are on sale.
I guess this is their new business model?
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Jul 3, 2019 6:47:56 GMT -6
It seems like I get multiple emails a week telling me that various Waves plugins are on sale. I guess this is their new business model?
I guess they collect data ... this is thier new business model.....
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Jul 3, 2019 14:13:06 GMT -6
It seems like I get multiple emails a week telling me that various Waves plugins are on sale. I guess this is their new business model? It does seem to be how they're doing things now. Their current deals finally (after many years) convinced me to re-WUP, thereby gaining numerous plugins back. Some of these went back to v.7, and they hadn't worked on my system in a long, long time. Most of the plugs I got back aren't even that great, but now I can do recalls on a few old mixes.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 3, 2019 14:22:36 GMT -6
I still don’t understand wup
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Jul 3, 2019 14:35:28 GMT -6
I feel that way about most plugin companies, and several brick-n-mortor retailers too. If I want something cheap I know I don't have to wait more that 6 weeks for it to go on sale, somewhere. I kinda feel like the whole pro audio industry is screwing itself while people like me only buy stuff when its a dirt cheap sale.
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Jul 3, 2019 16:15:51 GMT -6
I still don’t understand wup I could explain it, but I would be so exhausted at the end that I would need a drink. Actually, I already need a drink. So that would be two drinks.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jul 4, 2019 6:04:01 GMT -6
I still don’t understand wup I could explain it, but I would be so exhausted at the end that I would need a drink. Actually, I already need a drink. So that would be two drinks. I'll help you drink your whiskey
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Jul 4, 2019 10:05:36 GMT -6
I only drink whiskey that's on sale for 90% off...... So I don't drink. Pro Audio plugins? Laughable. They have killed themselves - shot themselves in the foot (feet) with their constant sales. There's no longer a decent market to make money for the developers.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Jul 4, 2019 10:28:05 GMT -6
I only drink whiskey that's on sale for 90% off...... So I don't drink. Pro Audio plugins? Laughable. They have killed themselves - shot themselves in the foot (feet) with their constant sales. There's no longer a decent market to make money for the developers.
They call it capitalisim.
Everybody can feel that the system we live in comes to an end. We have too much of everything in the western world. Its a fact - now they try to gain new customers over a price war. I doubt that this is a wise idea becasue the subtext is software is worth nothing....
|
|
|
Post by donr on Jul 4, 2019 12:48:03 GMT -6
I'm almost sympathetic to the subscription model for software. The market for audio software is only so big and won't expand much, and employing people and improving existing software requires steady income.
The market has already diminished the dollar value of common digital tools, as there's lots of low or no cost alternatives to the older brand stuff. Other than specialized unique products, the value is being pushed down and that's the reality.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Jul 4, 2019 13:28:30 GMT -6
I'm all for low prices. LOW LOW PRICES. I wouldn't have been able to own the plugins 5-10 years ago that I own now.
|
|
|
Post by aremos on Jul 4, 2019 22:15:33 GMT -6
I only drink whiskey that's on sale for 90% off...... So I don't drink. Pro Audio plugins? Laughable. They have killed themselves - shot themselves in the foot (feet) with their constant sales. There's no longer a decent market to make money for the developers.
They call it capitalisim.
Everybody can feel that the system we live in comes to an end. We have too much of everything in the western world. Its a fact - now they try to gain new customers over a price war. I doubt that this is a wise idea becasue the subtext is software is worth nothing....
Happy 4th of July. Thank God Capitalism is alive & well & is the backbone of this wonderful country we live in! Not perfect but the best system in the history of mankind.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jul 4, 2019 23:13:12 GMT -6
I only drink whiskey that's on sale for 90% off...... So I don't drink. Pro Audio plugins? Laughable. They have killed themselves - shot themselves in the foot (feet) with their constant sales. There's no longer a decent market to make money for the developers.
They call it capitalisim.
Everybody can feel that the system we live in comes to an end. We have too much of everything in the western world. Its a fact - now they try to gain new customers over a price war. I doubt that this is a wise idea becasue the subtext is software is worth nothing....
You mean like music?
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jul 5, 2019 7:01:48 GMT -6
I only drink whiskey that's on sale for 90% off...... So I don't drink. Have you heard of New Hampshire?
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Jul 5, 2019 7:41:14 GMT -6
They call it capitalisim.
Everybody can feel that the system we live in comes to an end. We have too much of everything in the western world. Its a fact - now they try to gain new customers over a price war. I doubt that this is a wise idea becasue the subtext is software is worth nothing....
Happy 4th of July. Thank God Capitalism is alive & well & is the backbone of this wonderful country we live in! Not perfect but the best system in the history of mankind. OFF TOPIC ON.
Intresting how fast we forget 2008 and the ones who still suffer from it.
A system that lost all rights to exsist in a form of spreaded cancer.
I cant forget the Bangsters .... and I dont trust them a single second. If thats the backbone of capitalisim than hell no, we need to change it asap.
The most sahmeful thing was that a Bank from my country "Deutsche Bank" was one of the leaders who destryed the future by millions living in Claifornia.
Capitalsim OK ... I am with you, but it needs guide lines...it needs to be a fair game for all.
OFF TOPIC OFF.
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Jul 5, 2019 8:30:56 GMT -6
Happy 4th of July. Thank God Capitalism is alive & well & is the backbone of this wonderful country we live in! Not perfect but the best system in the history of mankind. OFF TOPIC ON.
Intresting how fast we forget 2008 and the ones who still suffer from it.
A system that lost all rights to exsist in a form of spreaded cancer.
I cant forget the Bangsters .... and I dont trust them a single second. If thats the backbone of capitalisim than hell no, we need to change it asap.
The most sahmeful thing was that a Bank from my country "Deutsche Bank" was one of the leaders who destryed the future by millions living in Claifornia.
Capitalsim OK ... I am with you, but it needs guide lines...it needs to be a fair game for all.
OFF TOPIC OFF.
Your concerns are valid but they speak more to greed and corruption than capitalism. Greed, corruption, cronyism etc have been alive and well in every economic system. Capitalism is simply a system where individuals own their own property, goods/services, and the means of production, and get to trade to those things (freely) with others. And the banking system is not the backbone of capitalism. The Banking System is a whole other beast. Banks are international entities, that although they’re restricted by individual countries laws, operate with a great deal of autonomy...and corruption (imho). The Stixk Market too, is it’s own beast with its own problems, and IS connected to capitalism as a system, but certainly doesn’t define capitalism.
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Jul 5, 2019 10:52:17 GMT -6
I don't think I've ever bought Waves plug ins when they WEREN'T on sale (deeply)....I just don't buy audio plug ins for much money really ever. I actually was thinking that the East West reverb might be the most $$ I've ever spent on an AUDIO plug in (vs Virtual instruments)...despite being on a 50% off sale, it was like $160--but it's a unicorn to me--see long documented annoyances with software reverbs. I've spent more on bundles--but, per plug....anyway...you get the point. I had hardware and did what the kids now call "hybrid mixing" for 20 years--obviously whatever DAW coming with plenty to augment the hardware. I made it a point one the last about 6 to functionally replace all the hardware one by one. That involved buying some plug ins, but....not as much as one might imagine. I'm not sure what the business model even IS now--it's like user base is the gold, whether they pay $15/mo to use your whole collection....or you have 300 plug ins they can buy at $29/ea as needed....I have felt for a while like everyone is racing for some "completist" end game I don't understand--meaning, rather than have the 3 unique plug ins they make, everyone seems to need to make their collections have entire expected toolkits. As if the goal is to see who will be bought by say Yamaha or Avid to merge into the DAW....OR suddenly tack on a DAW so that now you just buy Waves recording software....complete bunch of kit all integrated to their own DAW. Not sure what the goal is---but, just like websites collect EYES to sell access....they're collectively going for SOMETHING I don't yet fully get. ....at the same time. Logic has the best sounding collection of built in barre none. Are third party better? Yes. But, not by enough to spend the money on them (IMO) in most cases. Then you have apps like Mixbus32c, whose stated goal is to REQUIRE less third party plug ins. I think if you listen to my latest project--the remixes of the old tracks....it couldn't happen outside Mixbus. Sorry. Not that I couldn't have done good work....because obviously I have....but, Mixbus32c just sounds better quicker. So many people want to believe that if you slap analog mixer channels and tape sims onto whatever DAW it will sound "the same", but it literally won't. Anyway....if you give me my two reverb plug ins and my 2500 for busses, I would be fine with using Mixbus32c. So, it's what $99....couple of $29 Waves (2500 and AR Plates) and a $160 IR reverb....and I am happy as a pig in shit sonically. When I mixed the client work in LPX (by request) I used built in everything except the DeEsser (which maybe they've fixed) and the 2500 on busses, which NOW, they've allowed independent stereo routing in the regular compressor and I might not "need" that....
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Jul 5, 2019 16:28:20 GMT -6
I don't think I've ever bought Waves plug ins when they WEREN'T on sale (deeply)....I just don't buy audio plug ins for much money really ever. I actually was thinking that the East West reverb might be the most $$ I've ever spent on an AUDIO plug in (vs Virtual instruments)...despite being on a 50% off sale, it was like $160--but it's a unicorn to me--see long documented annoyances with software reverbs. I've spent more on bundles--but, per plug....anyway...you get the point. I had hardware and did what the kids now call "hybrid mixing" for 20 years--obviously whatever DAW coming with plenty to augment the hardware. I made it a point one the last about 6 to functionally replace all the hardware one by one. That involved buying some plug ins, but....not as much as one might imagine. I'm not sure what the business model even IS now--it's like user base is the gold, whether they pay $15/mo to use your whole collection....or you have 300 plug ins they can buy at $29/ea as needed....I have felt for a while like everyone is racing for some "completist" end game I don't understand--meaning, rather than have the 3 unique plug ins they make, everyone seems to need to make their collections have entire expected toolkits. As if the goal is to see who will be bought by say Yamaha or Avid to merge into the DAW....OR suddenly tack on a DAW so that now you just buy Waves recording software....complete bunch of kit all integrated to their own DAW. Not sure what the goal is---but, just like websites collect EYES to sell access....they're collectively going for SOMETHING I don't yet fully get. ....at the same time. Logic has the best sounding collection of built in barre none. Are third party better? Yes. But, not by enough to spend the money on them (IMO) in most cases. Then you have apps like Mixbus32c, whose stated goal is to REQUIRE less third party plug ins. I think if you listen to my latest project--the remixes of the old tracks....it couldn't happen outside Mixbus. Sorry. Not that I couldn't have done good work....because obviously I have....but, Mixbus32c just sounds better quicker. So many people want to believe that if you slap analog mixer channels and tape sims onto whatever DAW it will sound "the same", but it literally won't. Anyway....if you give me my two reverb plug ins and my 2500 for busses, I would be fine with using Mixbus32c. So, it's what $99....couple of $29 Waves (2500 and AR Plates) and a $160 IR reverb....and I am happy as a pig in shit sonically. When I mixed the client work in LPX (by request) I used built in everything except the DeEsser (which maybe they've fixed) and the 2500 on busses, which NOW, they've allowed independent stereo routing in the regular compressor and I might not "need" that.... So Mixbus32c is THAT good, huh? I guess I need to try it.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jul 6, 2019 12:15:45 GMT -6
OFF TOPIC ON.
Intresting how fast we forget 2008 and the ones who still suffer from it.
A system that lost all rights to exsist in a form of spreaded cancer.
I cant forget the Bangsters .... and I dont trust them a single second. If thats the backbone of capitalisim than hell no, we need to change it asap.
The most sahmeful thing was that a Bank from my country "Deutsche Bank" was one of the leaders who destryed the future by millions living in Claifornia.
Capitalsim OK ... I am with you, but it needs guide lines...it needs to be a fair game for all.
OFF TOPIC OFF.
Your concerns are valid but they speak more to greed and corruption than capitalism. Greed, corruption, cronyism etc have been alive and well in every economic system. Capitalism is simply a system where individuals own their own property, goods/services, and the means of production, and get to trade to those things (freely) with others. And the banking system is not the backbone of capitalism. The Banking System is a whole other beast. Banks are international entities, that although they’re restricted by individual countries laws, operate with a great deal of autonomy...and corruption (imho). The Stixk Market too, is it’s own beast with its own problems, and IS connected to capitalism as a system, but certainly doesn’t define capitalism. The problem is that unfettered capitalism not only fosters and encourages greed, it elevates greed to the level of a deity.
We can only have a fair system through the institution of checks and balances so that nothing gets out of hand and exploitation is controlled.
Unlike the system currently in place.
Moderation in all things - including moderation.
|
|
|
Post by m03 on Jul 6, 2019 12:56:57 GMT -6
Your concerns are valid but they speak more to greed and corruption than capitalism. Greed, corruption, cronyism etc have been alive and well in every economic system. Capitalism is simply a system where individuals own their own property, goods/services, and the means of production, and get to trade to those things (freely) with others. And the banking system is not the backbone of capitalism. The Banking System is a whole other beast. Banks are international entities, that although they’re restricted by individual countries laws, operate with a great deal of autonomy...and corruption (imho). The Stixk Market too, is it’s own beast with its own problems, and IS connected to capitalism as a system, but certainly doesn’t define capitalism. The problem is that unfettered capitalism not only fosters and encourages greed, it elevates greed to the level of a deity. We can only have a fair system through the institution of checks and balances so that nothing gets out of hand and exploitation is controlled. Unlike the system currently in place. The system we currently have in place in the USA is pretty damn far from unfettered capitalism, and is essentially crony capitalism (companies heavily involved in authoring legislation that prevents a truly competitive marketplace, or that appears to be for the public good but in actuality preserves the company revenue streams). Unlettered capitalism holds competition and freedom of choice for the consumer in the marketplace as the highest goal, which makes the possibility of ultimate greed that you're complaining about very difficult to achieve. Under crony capitalism, it takes legislation that disguises itself as things like "checks and balances" to achieve that level of greed.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Jul 6, 2019 13:06:38 GMT -6
I wonder if we can get a representetive from Waves in here to comment on capitalism..
|
|
|
Post by Tbone81 on Jul 6, 2019 13:34:36 GMT -6
Your concerns are valid but they speak more to greed and corruption than capitalism. Greed, corruption, cronyism etc have been alive and well in every economic system. Capitalism is simply a system where individuals own their own property, goods/services, and the means of production, and get to trade to those things (freely) with others. And the banking system is not the backbone of capitalism. The Banking System is a whole other beast. Banks are international entities, that although they’re restricted by individual countries laws, operate with a great deal of autonomy...and corruption (imho). The Stixk Market too, is it’s own beast with its own problems, and IS connected to capitalism as a system, but certainly doesn’t define capitalism. The problem is that unfettered capitalism not only fosters and encourages greed, it elevates greed to the level of a deity.
We can only have a fair system through the institution of checks and balances so that nothing gets out of hand and exploitation is controlled.
Unlike the system currently in place.
Moderation in all things - including moderation.
I totally hear you, but checks and balances are needed in all economic systems. Greed and corruption are elevated and encouraged in all economic systems that aren’t checked, weather it’s a feudal system, monarchy, socialism, communism, theocratic systems etc. Capitalism, as opposed to a few other systems, is amoral. It’s neither good nor bad. Society needs to have a strong ethical and moral foundation and government needs to be concerned with the wellbeing of all and of protecting our fundamental rights in order to have a balanced system. At this point in history I’d say we have neither. That being said, capitalism has elevated the standard of living (globally) more so than other system in history, and in a short amount of time (hundreds of years vs thousands of years of “other” systems). It just seems to me that when people complain about capitalism, they’re really griping about greed, cronyism, exploitation etc. All things that happen in any (and all) systems that don’t have proper checks and balances (as you stated).
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jul 6, 2019 15:16:59 GMT -6
The problem is that unfettered capitalism not only fosters and encourages greed, it elevates greed to the level of a deity. We can only have a fair system through the institution of checks and balances so that nothing gets out of hand and exploitation is controlled. Unlike the system currently in place. The system we currently have in place in the USA is pretty damn far from unfettered capitalism, and is essentially crony capitalism (companies heavily involved in authoring legislation that prevents a truly competitive marketplace, or that appears to be for the public good but in actuality preserves the company revenue streams). Unlettered capitalism holds competition and freedom of choice for the consumer in the marketplace as the highest goal, which makes the possibility of ultimate greed that you're complaining about very difficult to achieve. Under crony capitalism, it takes legislation that disguises itself as things like "checks and balances" to achieve that level of greed. I respectfully disagree. History tells us that unfettered capitalism ALWAYS evolves into "crony capitalism" inm the absence of firm government checks.
"Freedom of choice for the consumer" (edit: within this context) is an illusion at best and a lie at worst. Without firm checks larger companies will always consume smaller, weakerr companies (survival of the fittest) and will always corrupt government unless active measures are taken to prevent it.
I'm actually amazed that anybody who is active in the current music business (emphasis on the word "business" as opposed to hobbyist or semi-professional) could fail to understand this, regardless of which side of the corporate line they might find themselves on. A lack of government restraint on the big money players has resulted in the present sorry state of affairs where the little guy has virtually no chance of gaining a foothold.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jul 6, 2019 15:26:02 GMT -6
The problem is that unfettered capitalism not only fosters and encourages greed, it elevates greed to the level of a deity.
We can only have a fair system through the institution of checks and balances so that nothing gets out of hand and exploitation is controlled.
Unlike the system currently in place.
Moderation in all things - including moderation.
I totally hear you, but checks and balances are needed in all economic systems. Greed and corruption are elevated and encouraged in all economic systems that aren’t checked, weather it’s a feudal system, monarchy, socialism, communism, theocratic systems etc. Capitalism, as opposed to a few other systems, is amoral. It’s neither good nor bad. Society needs to have a strong ethical and moral foundation and government needs to be concerned with the wellbeing of all and of protecting our fundamental rights in order to have a balanced system. At this point in history I’d say we have neither. That being said, capitalism has elevated the standard of living (globally) more so than other system in history, and in a short amount of time (hundreds of years vs thousands of years of “other” systems). It just seems to me that when people complain about capitalism, they’re really griping about greed, cronyism, exploitation etc. All things that happen in any (and all) systems that don’t have proper checks and balances (as you stated). Capitalism is actually NOT what elevated our standard of living during the 20th century, or at least most of it. What really elevated our standard of living was first the "socialist" programs promoted by FDR to combat the Great Depression (which was the result of unbridled capitalism) followed by socialist (in action, if not in name) programs in the Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson administrations to better the lot of WWII veterans and minority groups. It was the balance between these government programs and a controlled capitalism, subject to government regulation, that brought about unprecedented prosperity, and it is the erosion of those government controls that has reversed that trend in post Reagan America.
It was US post-WWII aid programs (global socialism) that revitalized the economies of Western Europe and Asia in the second half of the 20th century.
Taken to logical extremes there is no difference between unfettered capitalism and monarchy or dictatorship except the trappings of power and the mechanisms used to control the populace. If you don't understand this I'd suggest a good hard look at the history of coal mining in Appalachia and the contruction of the railroads in the late 19th century, both of which featured massacres of workers by private armies and corrupt factions of government. There's plenty more, but those, along with pre Civil War slavery are some of the most egregious.
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.
Something that people in the US don't get is that socialism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive and the socialism is not the same thing as communism.
Yes, communists often call themselves "socialists". They frequently call their governments "democracies", too. All that proves is that communists are frequently liars.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 7, 2019 20:42:40 GMT -6
I picked up the Waves Aphex Exciter recently. Nice plugin for low money.
|
|