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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 18:37:29 GMT -6
I ordered a Pro Tools Hd native card and I will try connecting the Symphony with that to see how that sounds. Avid says that it is still supported and the HD drivers will work with the latest versions of OS and Pro Tools. I’ll probably stay in Monterey since everything is working well on that and I don’t want to risk the upgrade at this point. That’s how I ran it years ago before Pro Tools lifted the 32 I/O limit on 3rd party interfaces which is when I switched back to the Symphony 64 I/O option card.
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 18:27:29 GMT -6
Guys I think I figured it out, thanks to Gearspace. Apparently all I need to do is invest in more acoustic treatment! 😂
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 14:56:43 GMT -6
Yep, that's the version I have installed. Apogee has been helpful so far. But yeah, communication takes awhile.
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 14:29:06 GMT -6
My hunch would be if there is a sonic difference it’s the driver. That’s my hunch too so that’s why I’m gonna try to finagle a way to install Big Sur since the apogee drivers should work as intended on that and I’ll worry about updating to a more modern OS later on whenever I feel like updating to the Mk II symphony. Or at least that’s my current plan unless Apogee comes back with another idea
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 14:04:38 GMT -6
Maybe reach out to mr macintosh, see if you could load big sur with open legacy patcher ? I’ve attempted to install Big Sur via an external boot drive and it wouldn’t allow it but I’m gonna look into this method for sure! Thanks for the tip
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:53:00 GMT -6
I tried downgrading but you can’t downgrade to an earlier OS than what the computer was shipped with and mine was shipped with Monterey
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:52:07 GMT -6
Big sur? How is the card doing a handshake with your m1? Your card isn’t certified for silicon or m1 ? It’s not officially supported by Apogee for any OS past Big Sur but they talked me through the settings that would make it work with Monterey, which is what I’m on now
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:50:41 GMT -6
I went from 2012 mbp i7 over tbolt to Aurora n to m1 mini, didn’t notice any sonic difference, did notice processing difference. I’d make certain you have all compatible softwares, sounds like you are mixing matching a fair bit. Are there not more up to date drivers for your symphony? I think the Mk1 symphony’s are not supported any longer. I’m sure the Mk II you could update but I just really wanted to avoid the cost if possible. I’m perfectly happy with the Mk 1 for now if I can just get it to play nice with the new computer
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:45:46 GMT -6
that's possible. I also tested USB just now and it's not any different. Ultimately, I don't want the quality to sound "better" or "worse." haha I want it to sound exactly the same. The OS shouldn't be changing the sound, as far as I'm concerned. If you noticed an improvement then it was probably that your previous OS was problematic. Agreed that the computer itself should not be impacting the sound. That said, some setting somewhere could have changed inadvertently? For sound quality issues I'd maybe look to clocking? Hard to say. You may be right. I’m currently awaiting a response from Apogee to see if they’ve had any reports. I know that the last updated driver for the Symphony 64 card was Big Sur, so that may be the issue. If I were connected via a Pro Tools Hd card I suspect I may not notice a difference since pro tools updates those drivers with every Os update. That’s my only theory as of now
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:43:00 GMT -6
The computer can absolutely impact the sound because of available CPU when running plugins. Going from my old 2015 Mac to the M1 I noticed a positive difference. Maybe it wasn't a huge difference, but everything just ran smoother. Definitely, it should run smoother. I’m talking about the quality of sound sound playing back a stereo WAV file and listening. No DAW or anything, just for context
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 13:26:01 GMT -6
I haven't had that issue at all with my M1 Mac Studio. I actually noticed the quality sounded a lot better. This sounds like a compatibility issue with the interface itself. that's possible. I also tested USB just now and it's not any different. Ultimately, I don't want the quality to sound "better" or "worse." haha I want it to sound exactly the same. The OS shouldn't be changing the sound, as far as I'm concerned. If you noticed an improvement then it was probably that your previous OS was problematic.
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 12:57:38 GMT -6
How are you connecting it to the new computer? Does it sound the same if you use USB? I’m connected to a Symphony 64 pcie card that is installed in an external thunderbolt chassis. I can check it running USB helps but ultimately I need it to work via Symphony 64 card since the USB mode is limited to 16 I/O
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 6, 2024 12:25:40 GMT -6
Hi! I'm in the process of moving from a 2012 Mac Pro tower to 2022 Mac Studio M1 Max. It came with OS X Sonoma but I had to downgrade back to Monterey in order to get it to talk to my Symphony Mk1 interface. I've got everything installed and working but I've noticed the sound is different. It's more "digitized" and "one dimensional" for lack of better terms. It also seems lacking in low end. I actually performed a test setup to see if I was crazy and setup my old 2012 Mac Pro connected to the Symphony via USB which allowed me to quickly A/B the two computers with the same audio interface and the difference was real. Has anyone else experienced this with Monterey? Did it improve with the next OS update, Ventura? Very curious to see if anyone else has experience anything similar.
Thanks, Cade
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 10, 2023 18:32:41 GMT -6
cademan7 what opamps did you go with in the output card(s) and do you have both A and B cards? I have two in mine and they're slightly different but might be helpful to others to know. That said I've been using a Chandler Mini Mixer but I'm moving this summer and in whatever new studio I build there I'll be putting both to work to have the choice of sending either way. They're both amazing units and I'd like to take advantage. Nice! I'd be very interested to hear how the Chandler compares since I've heard great things! I have just the A card installed with CA-0252 opamps. I have a pair of extra Red Dots that I may shootout at some point to see which I prefer.
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 9, 2023 17:21:46 GMT -6
After much deliberation I finally bit the bullet on the Capi SumBus32 8x2 summing mixer and I'm pretty happy with it. I think it's quite a bit of an improvement over my passive summing mixer I was using prior. My main hesitation in purchasing was the lack of audio samples I could find online. More specifically, comparisons between the sumbus and other summing mixers out there or even comparisons with digital summing. So, here is a quick comparison with a mix I did today between the SumBus and the same mix routed to an in the box mixbus with the same hardware chain. Here are some notes about the setup. Mixbus used for both mixes: SSL bus comp > Louder Than Liftoff Silver Bullet > Stam Audio 33609 > Fabfilter Pro-L2 This song was mixed through the SumBus from the start and the gain staging of the SumBus does seem to change the balance a bit between the mono and stereo busses, so after routing everything to a stereo bus in Pro Tools, I had to make some adjustments to the balance of the 8 busses by ear to try and match the balance of the analog summed mix. Here is my bus setup: 1-2: Drums 3: Lead vocals 4: Bass 5-6: Guitars 7-8: Misc The SumBus changes things pretty dramatically so had I mixed the song in the box from the start, the difference might not be quite as dramatic. I don't know. But hopefully this is helpful to anyone out there who is considering one of these! I'd like to do more comparisons going forward and possibly even some comparisons with the 8068 we have at the Church. Link: www.dropbox.com/sh/2cxsx228qshcdel/AAAXm-7esUBxPAwHODQ2SL-3a?dl=0Oh, and make sure you listen on Apple Air pods or a mono phone speaker! lol Thoughts?
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Post by cademan7 on Nov 19, 2021 15:41:04 GMT -6
25's here. I love them as well
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Post by cademan7 on Aug 28, 2021 21:49:08 GMT -6
If it’s going to be a situation where you’re going to have clients move from room to room in order to edit or do overdubs you’re going to need to make sure you’re on the same software updates and you’ve got all of the same plugins in both rooms. I was pretty much in charge of making this happen at a large facility with 3 rooms for about 6 years or so and you’ve got to make the move from one room to another absolutely seamless for the client. Also it’s a good idea to run tie lines into the bigger room as well. All of this should come up in the patchbays and machine room patch points are important as well. Want to finish that mix but don’t have the rmx16 in the B room? Patch that in if nobody is in A and get to work! I’ve tracked an entire band from the A live room in our B control room using tie lines when somebody was mixing on the SSL. Yeah it wasn’t glorious but I was able to make it work and the studio benefited from it. I’d also recommend having at least 1 floating rack of a really good vocal chain that can go from room to room. Only budgeted for 4 days in the big room but the singer had allergies and couldn’t sing the last 2 days? No problem, we can cut you a deal in the B room and finish up vocals with you when you’re feeling better. That keeps the client from going home and singing on a junk mic into an interface pre and leaving the engineer to deal with the bullshit of just making it work instead of having something great to work with. There is so much more than just gear when it comes to outfitting a multi room facility. I’d concentrate on the stuff that will make the engineers life easy. When the money starts rolling in because you’ve got a streamlined system, then it’s time to start throwing cash at the “goodies” Good luck it’s gonna be a headache but lots of fun and rewarding at the same time! Thanks for the advice! This is all great info. It definitely needs to be as seamless as possible.
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Post by cademan7 on Aug 28, 2021 18:52:30 GMT -6
What is the client base this room is aimed at? If your going to be tracking bands I want at least 8ch of the same pre amp say CAPI since the CAPI 500 rack is 11 spaces you could fill it with say something clean. HDX would be a great way to go and I agree in a for a room for hire Avid interfaces make the most sense. One of the biggest questions to ask is how much of the A room gear or new gear will float between the 2 rooms? Martin is right your going to need to build the mic locker so that both rooms always has the basics covered. ATC 25s are awesome near fields, but I’m going to want subs or something bigger for some thump, I also want something to cover the crappy speaker space like Auratones and if it’s going to be an ITB room I might consider adding a surround capable system. With affordable quality clones like Audioscape the standards are obtainable 2 La2s 2 1176s 2 Pultecs are easy a second 500 rack of EQs and the basics are covered. I want to see some kind of small mixer for general problems solving, extra pres, being able to gain extra inputs, an extra headphone amp level matching etc. Put the time energy and money into the acoustics hire somebody like Jeff Headback, make the room itself a draw. Plus you don’t know how many places have built a second room without getting the isolation right and can’t have them both in use at once. Also as far as non recording space do you want both rooms sharing lounge space? In Tulsa your going to need to get the HVAC right. I would save a bunch on the bays buy buying a bunch of used hardwired bays and doing all the cabling in house. You quickly learn the concept of dsub and thinking in blocks of 8 is a pain. Wire a bay with problem solvers, phase reverse, pads, iso transformers, mults, etc. As far as any additional gear the smartest move is to ask the freelancers you want to bring in what they might want. The simplest rule is this nobody knows what the client wants like the client. That's all great feedback. I'll clarify a little bit about who I think will be using this room. I think it will be a good room for pre-production and songwriting demoing, editing, tuning, some overdubs, vocal tracking, keyboards, programming drums, bass tracking, voiceover, post-production, and some ITB mixing. I can also seeing it as being useful for larger sessions happening in Studio A to have a secondary Pro Tools machine for editing, prepping session, etc. Anything that can help the session move along more efficiently in the main studio. The room isn't large enough to track a band and Studio A is where we will be doing that kind of work. I would like this room to be acoustically sound enough to do some ITB mixing and for it to have a good sound for tracking vocals, acoustic guitar, etc. The only gear that will float from room to room will be microphones. However, I like John's idea of having at least something like a U87 that lives in this room permanently. Here is a link to a computer mockup of the general layout of the room, if that's helpful. www.dropbox.com/s/ayyk5klfnbukglp/Studio%20B%20Mockup.png?dl=0
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Post by cademan7 on Aug 28, 2021 12:58:51 GMT -6
Great fun just talking about the possibilities. You certainly have a list worth drooling over. I've not used the hardware of all of these, so grain of salt. My impression of the 2500 is that it's got more of a learning curve than other bus comps, which can lead to a lot of guys getting too much gain. As others have said Audioscape hits a quality level and you'll likely be able to have a greater variety of compressors. I'd be happier seeing a bus comp in the style of SSL, Vertigo VSC, 33609, or one of those clones. You may have a preference for the API and I'd understand why. Also Audioscape dual Pultecs would be nice on a stereo bus. Or something similar vibey like a Curve Bender. I love the idea of Pultecs for the stereo bus and that will probably be one of my first upgrades later on after the initial install. I really like the API 2500 for drums but also for dual mono purposes, but the SSL style comps are more useful for actual mixbus compression, I agree. Ideally I'd like to have both at some point, but can only afford one or the other for the time being. I'll spend some more time considering which one would be better to start with.
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Post by cademan7 on Aug 28, 2021 12:55:21 GMT -6
I'd make sure there's a Neumann U87 always available for use in those sessions. Also, you may want to look at the Dangerous Music 2 Bus +. Excellent point! We have a couple of U87's in our mic locker, but having one that's available at all times in that room would be really nice.
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Post by cademan7 on Aug 28, 2021 12:54:08 GMT -6
If you’re running PT, I’d definitely have an HDX setup and Avid interface instead of an Apollo. If I paid to use a studio and had to deal with having issues with Hardware Inserts screwing with timing of sessions because of the interface I’d be pretty bummed out. And if it’s going to be a hybrid mix room, or if you’re going to be overdubbing on sessions with lots of plugs then HDX is the only way to go. That's a great point, as much as I hate to believe. I was thinking the Apollo would be great because it will also let us use UAD plugins, and if I go the HDX/Avid route, I'll have to get a UAD satellite too, which really adds quite a lot to the budget overall. But it's a great point that I'll definitely consider carefully.
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Post by cademan7 on Aug 27, 2021 19:48:06 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice! The Redco patchbay is the way to go for sure. Regarding the Neves, I'm a bit skeptical of the 500 series format specifically when it comes to Neve style preamps. But I did consider that. I also really like the idea of having a very transparent pre like the Millenia somewhere in the mix. That's a good call. Regarding the monitoring, ABSOLUTELY! That's the one area I will not consider scaling back on. Haha The compression if probably a bit much and that will be the first area where I'll have to start scaling back if the budget becomes too much. I was mainly looking to get some other people's thoughts on the types of compression they'd like to see in that type of studio, which you touched on. You definitely can't go wrong with 1176's or LA2A's however we have so much of that in Studio A that I was thinking it would be nice for this room to be sort of a more modern compliment to that? But maybe not.
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Post by cademan7 on Aug 27, 2021 19:15:06 GMT -6
Hey everybody! I need some advice. I’ve been tasked with outfitting a Studio B/Editing Room for a major recording studio. The Church Studio in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The main studio is a large live room with multiple iso booths and a control room outfitted with a Neve 8068 console, vintage outboard gear (Urei 1176’s, DBX 160’s, Lexicon 480L, (2) EMT 140 plate reverbs, two subterranean echo chambers, etc.) and a serous mic locker stocked with all the classic microphones from Neumann, AKG, Telefunken, etc. But we would like to have a second smaller studio to function as a lower cost of entry space for some simple tracking, overdubs, voiceover work, vocal tracking, pre-production, songwriting sessions, but also a secondary space for larger sessions to have an assistant prepping Pro Tools sessions, editing, etc. on another machine in Studio B to maximize their time in Studio A. But I’m also thinking it could function has a smaller, more affordable hybrid mix room because it’s a perfect size and shape for that.
So, what are some pieces of equipment, accessories, etc. that you all would like to see in such a space? I have a budget of about 40K and my list of equipment thus far is tipping that scale. Here is my list:
Dangerfox Genesis 16U workstation desk Apple iMac 27” Universal Audio Apollo x8p interface ATC SCM25A studio monitors Switchcraft Studio Patch 6425 patchbay (2) AMS Neve 1073 CH in 3U horizontal rack case Chanler Limited REDD.47 preamp BAE 312A 2-channel mic preamp Tube-Tech CL1B compressor Purple Audio MC77 limiter API 2500 stereo bus compressor API 5500 Dual equalizer
Anyway, I would love anyone’s thoughts or suggestions about what’s lacking or what could be better. I’m sure there’s things I’m probably overlooking so I’d love to hear some of your thoughts about the kind of work you could envision doing in such a space and what would make that work easier for you.
Thanks, Cade
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Post by cademan7 on Mar 5, 2019 13:51:52 GMT -6
Joshua where are we at on the 76adf's shipping?
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Post by cademan7 on Nov 8, 2017 2:30:26 GMT -6
used a 25 watt aluminum wire wound and just mounted it to the case. Works like a champ! Could probably be fine with 10 or 15 watt.
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