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Post by jeromemason on Mar 16, 2019 23:41:08 GMT -6
Best sound I get is #1 great guitar, #2 great player #3 Royers tube ribbon into an Electra and then an LA-2A with the emphasis pulled so the highs cut through.....
Check the polar maps on the mics and try to get it close enough and aimed so you get the body and some of the pick, usually off axis pointed at the 16th fret and off axis pointing away from the sound hole. If you want, put another mic, like an SM7 or SM57 right at the bridge on axis and blend that in.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 16, 2019 10:58:05 GMT -6
EmRR, do you use tablets for headphone mixes with your motu rig? jeromemason? I'm sure some motu guys here must be doing it. Yeah, it’s all over WiFi. You could just set it up with buying some used iPads at a pawn shop. They sell em dirt cheap.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 14, 2019 15:14:28 GMT -6
STA-LEVEL'S, UA-175/176's, 1176's, Collins etc These comps are what I'd consider not for a beginner. You really have to know how to use the attack and release to get what you want, but, they can pin a vocal in a mix while it still sounds massive if you know how to master the attack and release. Honestly, it's best to have two of these types of compressors ran in serial, one going slow/fast the other going fast/slow. The STA Level is all about gain staging too, how you hit it, how you use it's input and output amps all takes you to other euphoric sound places. For anyone beginning they should just use plugins with threshold controls and mix knobs etc. That's the best route for beginners, using these you need to know not only about compression but also about how these old boxes deliver a different palette just by how you hit it, and how you use it's attack/release. They're beautiful. I'd say if you want they sound of one but can't afford the price tag right yet, the Retro Doublewide II is the closest I've heard to the UA-175/6 and STA-Level. I have one, I had a Retro 176 in here before it and I actually liked it better than the $3,600 Retro 176, mainly because it gives me two different attack and release styles but also makes anything I run through it instantly sound bigger and fuller. Again, these are the same, how you hit it, how you set up the attack/release it makes all the difference. The cool thing is you get two different attack/release styles with them. Hope that helps. I think you could say that about the 1176, but man, it was really hard to screw anything up regardless of the settings with the sta (at least the retro version). I usually stayed at the quickest release and medium attack and at double for most things...but bass could sound amazing on single attack. Only problem I found with the sta is that you could find yourself compressing too much without knowing. Ultimately, after getting better mics I found that the sta could add almost too much heft in the bottom... it I’d love to have another. I’m actually going to purchase the AudioScape a try when it comes out. Really hoping it lives up to expectations. You should try the new Retro Doublewide II before you buy the AS..... No joke about what I said about it. It's the real deal.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 14, 2019 14:43:02 GMT -6
STA-LEVEL'S, UA-175/176's, 1176's, Collins etc
These comps are what I'd consider not for a beginner. You really have to know how to use the attack and release to get what you want, but, they can pin a vocal in a mix while it still sounds massive if you know how to master the attack and release. Honestly, it's best to have two of these types of compressors ran in serial, one going slow/fast the other going fast/slow. The STA Level is all about gain staging too, how you hit it, how you use it's input and output amps all takes you to other euphoric sound places. For anyone beginning they should just use plugins with threshold controls and mix knobs etc. That's the best route for beginners, using these you need to know not only about compression but also about how these old boxes deliver a different palette just by how you hit it, and how you use it's attack/release. They're beautiful.
I'd say if you want they sound of one but can't afford the price tag right yet, the Retro Doublewide II is the closest I've heard to the UA-175/6 and STA-Level. I have one, I had a Retro 176 in here before it and I actually liked it better than the $3,600 Retro 176, mainly because it gives me two different attack and release styles but also makes anything I run through it instantly sound bigger and fuller. Again, these are the same, how you hit it, how you set up the attack/release it makes all the difference. The cool thing is you get two different attack/release styles with them.
Hope that helps.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 10, 2019 20:33:25 GMT -6
Do you have any endorsements or association with Stam? Cause I stick up for him in the other threads? I have bought products from both companies - and think it’s completely fair to compare them directly as they are made for similar markets. I wish my Audioscape SSL was built better - Chris’ customer service is top notch. I don't know who it was.... But I remember commenting on the delay thing and my theory on why so many products were hitting and so many deposits need be taken and I don't remember who it was, but someone accused me of being an AudioScape shill. Have to see if I can dig that up, been a while ago.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 5, 2019 11:37:22 GMT -6
Hey Jerome, does it have digital in's & out's? Couldn't find that info in that & it seems Sweetwater has discontinued it. Thanks, Ariel No it's purely analog besides the digital interface for the GUI, as far as I know. The new Dbox with the USB and BT is pretty cool, but I wouldn't ever use it.... I love Dangerous's gear, I used their Source forever when I first went into the hybrid world and that was when I understood by not monitoring the console I was going to have to have a stellar DAC. I also have their Convert AD+ and it's a beast of itself. I wouldn't doubt this new Dbox sounds great, the old one did, but I was dissapointed they didn't put in the ability to monitor in M/S, that little feature get's used for a majority of every mix I do. Also, I don't think that Sweetwater carries the Satori, but VK and all the others do, you can get one for about $1,750 now.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 4, 2019 21:43:40 GMT -6
I use the Antelope Satori and it's been probably one of the best buys I've ever made. It has nearly every feature of this box, but also allows you to monitor in mono or M/S, listen to each stem of your summing inputs, a crystal clear dynamic high headroom summing section, plenty of inputs and outputs and a software interface that allows you to do much more i.e attenuate or boost your summing output level. I find this and the M/S monitoring critical in my every single day workflow. I use it everyday. If I want to hit my buss harder on a mix that's done, I can simply juice the summing level or take it back and I don't have to touch anything in the session.
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 26, 2019 14:04:27 GMT -6
I've got a session this weekend and I was asked to produce this record, so kind of out of the normal for me I mix a lot from this producer and one thing I always felt like I wanted was some mics that grabbed just the crashes and ride. Only thing is I don't want hardly any of the kit in them if possible, so is there any decent pencils out there for this? And inexpensive, not cheap haha. Man I haven't been in the big captains chair in a while, should be fun 8)
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 26, 2019 11:20:36 GMT -6
Could we keep this thread about the product itself ? It would be much appreciated. Any questions about the unit I am happy to respond. I have a couple of Telefunken's and these sound spot on to them. Sowter transformers are the only accurate replicas we have been able to find. Thanks SURE!! Do you have any plans for a V72/V76 preamp? One channel of V72 for male vocals and one channel of V76 for femvox. When it comes to vocal preamps, that's pretty much as good as it gets Man just take the back of one side of this one and run it into the input of the other..... That's what we always did to get a V76 lol
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 25, 2019 15:27:23 GMT -6
Tell you what... start giving realistic product delivery estimates based on your track record and not your best case scenario fantasies, and I'll say not another word. I don't mind. When you can't reason with somebody it is best to ignore them. I won't be able to see further comments from you Life is too short for fighting dear Jim. I'm not sure that's the best way to go about something being you're a company. If I had something that I'd put my money down on, and I'd been waiting for months/years, if I saw that company posting new product after new product, with the same unrealistic delivery time (based on what has been going on so far, can't just say you've done this and that to fix it and expect people to all of a sudden believe you) I'd be screaming from the mountain tops too. Certainly by you ignoring someone that wanted to trust you puts the nail in the coffin on me ever ordering anything from you. You can ignore me as well if you'd like, but I doubt I say anything to you after that stunt. Jerome Mason
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 18, 2019 13:23:19 GMT -6
Awesome! Looking forward to your review. The early impression is that I've never had a compressor that held a vocal in place so well with only 2-3db of compression. It's crazy! The Retro Doublewide II does it too Vari-mu design, but they did somethings in there that really beefed it up from the original. I'd love to have one of those MDE comps, but I don't even know how much one is or how to even order one.
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 17, 2019 22:24:13 GMT -6
My vocal chain is all tube, but a 176 is kind of like an 1176 when it comes to the aggression style. I run that into a Retro Doublwide II where things get way softer, with fast attack and slow release. I like to peg the first aggressive compressor pretty hard, really letting it give the vocal attitude and how much i want it tamed is basically just how hard I let the soft compressor work after it. So this is one guy who will tell you that FET into VM for sure works. Thanks! I've never heard it explained this way- very clear on the "why" factor. By pegging the first aggressive compressor hard, do you mean fast attack and fast release? Actually what you're basically creating is both an RMS compression and peak compression. You would think that this would be reverse in how I do it, but it's not. It allows you to make the vocal either aggressive with lots of dynamic swinging, or you can pin it down for more pop style tracks. First, rough in an EQ on the vocal. Do you HPF and your mid cut and air before the compression. I always set the FET style to medium attack and fastest release, so right in the middle on attack and the fastest release you have, that's why FET or 176's are good for this. You want to really push hard into that stage, go as far as to when the breaths start getting annoying and then back it down little by little until they seem semi natural (i'll tell you how to fix this as well.) After that run into the slow VM, set it up with a fast attack, like 10% coming through and then time the release to the natural movement in his/her voice. Push it all the way until the compressor starts to duck on the peaks and then back it down little by little until it feels natural. Now, at this point, the VM comp may only be doing 2b of compression, but it's doing a whole lot more than that meter is telling you, it's working a lot. Now put a couple of de-essers on, set the first to grab at 2k and make sure it's only knocking like 3 or 4db off, this takes out the "honk", your next one set it on the actually ess's and get it sounding natural. After you've done this, if the breath's are too much, pick up Izotopes "Nectar 3" Go ahead and commit/Print the compression from the EQ/FET/VM/dessers so you're left with a blank track that's been EQ'd/leveled/de-essed. Now use Nectar's breath control and bring those down until it's natural. Now, you can print that if you want, or, leave it on and start working on your mix. If you find your vocal needs a little more EQ or compression to pin it down, Nectar 3 has some amazing EQ and compression models. At this point you should have a vocal that sounds extremely natural, sits anywhere you want in the mix and doesn't sound like you've done anything to it. I hope this helps you in your mixing! Jerome
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 17, 2019 16:31:03 GMT -6
I'm getting one of those. I bet that blows the doors off most out there right now. The parallel VCA's will make this sucker smooth as silk and I love the HF lift, very very well thought out. Probably looking at a day to build.
What did it end up costing in $US??
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 17, 2019 16:25:33 GMT -6
My vocal chain is all tube, but a 176 is kind of like an 1176 when it comes to the aggression style. I run that into a Retro Doublwide II where things get way softer, with fast attack and slow release. I like to peg the first aggressive compressor pretty hard, really letting it give the vocal attitude and how much i want it tamed is basically just how hard I let the soft compressor work after it. So this is one guy who will tell you that FET into VM for sure works.
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 15, 2019 16:52:44 GMT -6
I'll finance if it's something I need and don't have the cash...... Or, if there is something I've been wanting for a long time and they do like 4 years no interest I will do a big purchase. I usually try and pay it off asap though. If you can get accounts at Sweetwater and a place like WestLake Pro, they'll have promo financing all the time. Just make sure you have a plan to pay it off and stick to the plan. The way I usually do it, the money comes in, I give my contribution to the family, then a little savings and what ever is left over goes towards my accounts. I've nearly got my room whittled down to the point I won't need anything else. I also don't record, I just mix, so it's kind of different for me. The studios that are doing a lot of tracking need to always be in the practice of building up their mic lockers and preamps, as well as things for the mix buss, compressors, eq's converters, computers, monitors.......
Not a cheap business to be in and it's why no one should ever, ever do work for free, on top of that, everyone should be charging what's fair. This isn't like art and a painting, you can't just create a masterpiece with simple materials that cost little. Music is not cheap to make therefore it shouldn't be cheap to obtain!
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 14, 2019 13:10:44 GMT -6
Great post! What EQ do you have on your Buss? Well, I use a pair of the DIYRE Pultecs with SL1731's, OPA1612's and EA 2503's in them, so....... Yeah But, If I were going to suggest something to someone I would suggest firstly, buy the Izotope Ozone 8 Advanced and do a reference EQ match, that would be my first suggestion because if there is a song you're chasing you just simply load it into Ozone and select the hottest part of that song, the hottest part of your song and let it do it's thing, it'll do a lot more than just a stereo eq, it'll do dynamic eq after the stereo eq so that you're not having to cut chunks out of your mix for parts that don't need it. Secondly, the EQ in Ozone is amazing! I mean basically no phase shift going on from my ears, I don't know if it goes into a non linear mode or if it compensates somehow for it, but I believe it pulls the off by doing mostly subtraction. Usually it will boost my low-end and tame my high end, then it uses the dynamic section for all the mid range stuff. With that being said, if you just wanted to get an EQ to strap across the buss to do high lifts or the fletcher munson thing, I would totally put the Soundtoys Sie Q there. You get Bass Middle and Treble. When you're EQ'n your buss those are really all you need. Think of it like the EQ in your car. What happens when you take a mix out to the car and listen and it doesn't have the high end you wanted, or low? You quickly shelve up either and you're like, "yeah there it is, that's what I want it to sound like." Well, if you go back in your session and start fiddling with all the tracks trying to do this it's either going to take you forever and cause a shitlaod of phase shifting, or it's not going to be as good as what your car did. What's the answer? The most simple and logical. A 3 band EQ that simulates what your car stereo does, big broad lifts, and it doesn't take much. You can experiment with the Fab Q, the Sie Q or the Massey 3 band one (which is a course eq, but it is extremely similar to the EQ's in cars." If you think of it like this I promise you your time spent on mixing will dramatically decrease. Just mix the song to how you like it, if you like mixing bright, so be it, same if you like mixing dark, after you're done pull a reference up and use your 3 band eq to get close to it and you're done. Send it out the door, because your client isn't going to be remarking about that, they're going to be remarking about how a vocal is to low at 2:14 or there's too much verb/not enough etc. etc. Demo the Ozone first, let it do it's thing with the master assistant and it'll be an instant buy. However, if you don't like it, just choose what ever coarse 3 band eq you can find and print that biotch!
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 14, 2019 1:09:39 GMT -6
The Soundtoys Sie Q I really like. You can put it on a snare before like a ssl eq and crank the shit out of the low and top, the mid at 1.7 gives a good thwack too. Then i just use the filters on the ssl plugin to tame it back. I use the T-Racks SSL E style on a ton of tracks, probably because I got started on that console and it's easy for me to dial in what i want, quickly. I love the Fab Pro Q on bass. Anytime I just need to HP or LP I use the stock digi one band plug. I honestly don't stray to far outside of that. The tracks I get already sound stellar, so I am really just cutting mostly or filtering, I find the SSL eq really good for this, plus even if you don't compress, just having it on instantly adds snap and punch to anything. Mixing today, you've got to have a lot of transients because of what they do in mastering. Find an eq that you're comfortable with and just use that, it's not as crazy and tedious as people make it out to be. A good buss eq is a must though, something with wide Q so you can quickly dial your mixes in to whatever they want you to reference, I like mixing darker and I'd much rather have one phase shift on the whole mix than 70 in the tracks.
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 13, 2019 14:23:42 GMT -6
I ended up going between Brad's Rogue opamps and Scotts SL1731's. Both are really great but I ended up leaving the SL1731's in there. Hey jerome, I tried looking up the SL1731s but only finding 2510 + 2520 on his website. Am I missing something or does someone else sell them? Also wondering what transformer are you using with them? May have missed you mentioning earlier in thread... I'm not certain.... You may need to email Scott to ask for an invoice?
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 13, 2019 11:28:02 GMT -6
The SL1731's have always had the fullest sound to me. That's what I use on my Mixbuss in my EQ's. I tried the Red Dot's, I tried the Rogue's and the SL1731's, for me, made the mixes feel finished. I will say that I use both the Red Dot's and the Rogues in my PRR-176, I use the Red Dots on the input amp and the Rogues on the output amp. It took a long time of sending vocals through that thing and swapping around Opamps to find the right sauce, but that's what you have to do to get the sound YOU are looking for. Great video, great playing! 90% of the tone is in his fingers
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 13, 2019 10:12:24 GMT -6
I'm not sure why other companies haven't took note of the design and started putting plate chokes on their tube pre's. What if LaChapell did another 583 but simply put a plate choke in to give it that really unique glassy/smooth feel. Not sure that has anything to do with a plate choke. A plate choke is 'same as' an output transformer with plate current run through it, 'different' in that there's a cap keeping B+ out of the output transformer and that cap can be tuned for low frequency response. The point of both is higher output stage headroom, and a 'better' output transformer won't need a plate choke at all. All the RCA tube stuff is either B+ through the output transformer or a plate choke. I could probably dig out a couple examples that aren't, but not many. Lots of Altec, Langevin, WE, Collins, Gates, Disa, AWA, EMI, etc etc etc all use one of the two methods. Well Doug, all the preamps you're talking about I LOVE haha. And, all of those preamps are not in production anymore. I just know from what's being produced out there right now, even on the DIY market, designers are not taking this approach. And from what I understood, having a plate choke can open the sonic possibilities of how preamps sound and are what allows preamps like the V72 (the V76m is simply just 2 V72's in serial) to be shaped and also provide such smooth glassy and warm sounds. I'm a bigger fan of the plate choke design, to my ears that design has always sounded the best.
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 12, 2019 23:53:23 GMT -6
Interesting to hear you're getting the twins Jerome - I imagine you've heard them ? I've just done a pilgrimage to listen to speakers and heard the 50s and twins in different shops which makes comparison almost impossible but FWIW I thought the 50s were a " complete ' little speaker albeit a little light as expected where the twins didn't do what I'd hoped for me. Take that impression with the proverbial salt grains but there it is.YMWPV. Cheers, Ross Thanks man, appreciate that. Good thing is I can send them back and trade them in for the 50's if something like that were to occur. But, I was 100% right when I looked at the line when it first came out, figuring that the 50's would translate better than the 65's, and I was right. Going by the specs and how the Twins are rolled into one box I really believe they'll be the silver bullet for me in what I do. I get the low-end and I get the transient detail of the 5" driver. That was always my thing, just because the 65's would go a few db below the 50's had to mean a trade off somewhere. I think they use almost the exact same power wattage as well, so I knew the 50's would let me know what my snare and snap of the kick was doing. The Twins look to do that as well as dive deeper while also having an emphasis on the low-mid range, that I like, that's where so many monitors leave you hanging and why so many people feel no matter how expensive the speaker, the meat of their mixes doesn't translate, or the transients don't translate. We shall see though, I can always go back if I need to. BTW, that's a good deal I've got on those, I mean they're brand new speakers, albeit broken in, but I've always powered them down at the end of the day, or even during breaks, and yes, I dusted those damn speakers like 3 times a week. Those are my money makers. Twins, well they'll get the same love.
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 12, 2019 23:20:18 GMT -6
I ended up going between Brad's Rogue opamps and Scotts SL1731's. Both are really great but I ended up leaving the SL1731's in there. I also reached out to Hairball about their "Raindog" Opamps they use in their Bronze Elements mic pre's. They don't have them listed for sale, but said they would sell them for $40 each. From what they told me, those really get you the tone of the input stage of LA-3A's, so I've thought about getting a pair. But, I use mine on the Mixbuss so I'm not sure I'd want that tone across my whole mix, but it'd be a cool experiment.
One thing I'll throw in here, I recently had a Dangerous Compressor in here and when I had the EQ's engaged it really messed with the openness and width of that compressor, not sure why, but it was night and day. I wanted to see what my old setup sounded like compared to the no EQ/Dangerous Comp setup and man, when I put those EQ's back in and pushed them into my custom SSL type buss comp there was pure magic. I re-printed all the mixes and sent them to the producer and his exact words were "Don't fuck with your buss anymore, keep what you've got, the difference is incredible." So, that saved me $3,000. I'd love to try more Opamps, but all I've got are the ones above and Gar2520's, Gar1731's and SL Red Dots and none of those did what either Brad's or Scotts 1731's have done. Both of those Opamps have just the right tone for the mix buss, very open and detailed and a very punchy low-end. Just running the mix through the circuit, no EQ gives it a vibe that I can't work without.
Blackdawg, did you ever get the OPA1612's in? That makes a massive difference in terms of fidelity, it's pretty remarkable for an Opamp that everyone says is doing "nothing."
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 12, 2019 22:47:21 GMT -6
I dunno....... I just set mine up so they're pretty much under my monitors and roll off everything, I only use them to hear the "fluff" I have two 10" subs so I guess mine is a little different than what you're go going. Basically I think they way I did it was used a signal generator and swept between 20hz-200hz, when it nulled I'd nudge them around a little until it got better, and really small moves made a big difference if I remember correctly. I know when I started trying to use them to hear anything above 110hz is when they gave me a fit. So I just turned them up enough to give me the lower octave the Shape 50's didn't have and left it there. They're really low too.
I'm selling my Focal Shape 50's because today I put an order in for the Focal Shape Twin's, maybe I won't even need the subs anymore, that's what I'm really hoping for.
Best advice I can give is the advice I got from two of my mentors about subs. Just turn them up enough to hear that lower octave "fluff" and remember that the monitors are going to produce the most accurate low's (unless you've got Quested or ATC's) I followed that and my low-end is spot on in the car or anywhere else I listen. Definitely a hard yet vitally important thing to get right in today's music. All it took was a girl telling me once that my mixes were great but didn't have that "shake your ass bass" Maybe I bought them so she'd shake her ass, I dunno, but they've done well.
Jerome
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 12, 2019 21:36:48 GMT -6
Gotta say, this sounds very similar to the VP28 Platinums just singing and listening back...one thing I run into with the Unison pres is headroom (dynamic range before distorting)...Seems like all of my outboard pres have more dynamic headroom...Just singing at -24 I can still drive the input a little, but less gain and it's a super quiet recording. Obviously, you can pull up the output or run a compressor after, but it kind've sucks the output isn't stepped. But - I'm really impressed with this and the Helios. I could literally do everything I need to do with these new Apollos. I'm pretty sure all of Jeff's gear is topped out at +29dbu before they break up. If the Apollo's hardware pre's are lower than that then that would be the issue I'm betting. For those guys that have the new WT-72 from Locomotive it'd be really interesting to hear some A/B's if anyone with a Unison system has a WT-72. If the plugin gets you 90% there that's saying something. These preamps are IMO the hardest there are to recreate from the original. They are the most special sounding preamps I know of. I'm not sure why other companies haven't took note of the design and started putting plate chokes on their tube pre's. What if LaChapell did another 583 but simply put a plate choke in to give it that really unique glassy/smooth feel. There's probably room in the 1U 500 slot if Cinemag or Sowter did PCB transformers/plate chokes, which they might already I don't know. I know Sowter does the input/output and plate choke for the V72 and they're pure drop in's. 10 years ago you could've got the original V72/76 for half what they sell for now, so it's definitely a hot seller.
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 6, 2019 21:13:03 GMT -6
I must be the odd ball. 1.5 ratio and barely moving the needle does it for me. Me too depending on the compressor though. I've got the Dangerous Compressor in here right now and it's compression is pretty similar to a RED 3 in that just kissing it does a lot. I've also got my custom SSL type and I can slam 6-8db off and it just keeps glueing and glueing. I will say that to each is own though. There are somethings I'd really love having the Dangerous for and somethings I'd really love having the SSL for. It's got me seriously considering keeping the Dangerous and patching either or in for different songs. I always mix into any buss comp. I always rough a mix in until it's feeling good and then I will look over at the meter, if it's digging too far in I'll pull the blend knob back to let some of the dry through and it just sounds better and better until I get to a certain point. The really nice thing about having a mix knob and the SSL style together is you can get a very smooth, glued yet vibey mix going. I always feel like my SSL seems to widen and open the mix up. So, the way about mixing into the compressor and how much you should be knocking off is totally dependent on what kind of compressor it is and also if you've got a mix knob. And the auto attack and release is the way I go on any buss comp, they really seem to have that in a sweet spot on the SSL that I love. I'd say to figure out what it is you're wanting, dial a mix in with no compression on any tracks, flip the buss comp on and dial the threshold to a point where it's feeling good. Watch how much your kick and snare are swinging the needle and then just remember that when you're mixing into it, if you're swinging 4-8db and it sounds good, then go with the industry standard saying, "fuck it, music aint perfect."
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