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Post by drbill on Mar 2, 2023 15:54:19 GMT -6
Only reason I would DIY these if I were to use them in an audio room would be to alter the width of the slats to some acoustically beneficial pattern. And that ^^^ would be the real reason. There's a lot of math involved if you really want to do it right for any particularly sized room. That and they generally have a lot more absorption behind them. The stock layout looks nice and might perform fairly well, but it's not a substitute for someone like Hedback designing one specifically for your room.
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Post by drbill on Mar 2, 2023 9:13:58 GMT -6
I get that something like this is more expensive than going with a more diy approach (cutting your own slats, etc.), but the fact that you could put up an entire wall of these in a few hours ain't worth nothing. I used to be diy for everything, but as time has worn on, the realization that life is short sets in more and more with every day that passes. Granted, you have to be able to afford the non-diy approach to even consider that as an option, but now that I can afford to at least consider some non-diy options sometimes, I increasingly choose that option. There's only so many hours in the day and I have spent a LOT of those doing diy projects over the years. These days, I may not want to take on another diy project that will eat up months of my life. The same goes for gear. I just want shit that works. The idea of vintage equipment that requires constant upkeep/mods/repairs or computer/digital/software that has a huge learning curve or requires you to practically be a programmer is something I'm interested in less and less these days. ^^^ This is a valuable observation. Gotta weigh the money vs. time/life thing and make good judgements. Could go either way, but time is a commodity we can never recover....
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Post by drbill on Mar 1, 2023 18:16:11 GMT -6
On the Drm Bus? Always a silver bullet - followed by either a D Comp or SSL Bus Comp (usually the Serpent - with grind engaged). On rare occasions, a pultec.
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Post by drbill on Feb 28, 2023 12:23:57 GMT -6
Since I'll only have one (1) - at least initially- that might be a great place for it. . Or maybe a mono overhead? I can't even imagine. LOL Remember this.? You might need another 7 H251s I'll put 7 more on order right away. Maybe I can get away with 6 if I'm using less toms....
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Post by drbill on Feb 28, 2023 10:59:24 GMT -6
<thumbsup> An Elam is one of the only holy grail mics I've never had the opportunity to use, so it will be fun!! Might be good on Shakers. Someone mentioned it makes a good hi hat microphone. Since I'll only have one (1) - at least initially- that might be a great place for it. . Or maybe a mono overhead?
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Post by drbill on Feb 25, 2023 9:43:57 GMT -6
Woohoo indeed — just received the email from Heiserman: My H251 is being burned in now and should be ready to ship within the next 7 days!!!! Looks like mine will ship out this coming week! Excited!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by drbill on Feb 24, 2023 15:32:54 GMT -6
Is it true that 98% of all Jeeps, are still on the road? (The other 2% made it home) Chris Just Empty Every Pocket.
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Post by drbill on Feb 24, 2023 13:27:10 GMT -6
Here you go Chris - Silver Bullet mk3. WITH the LTL house band..... . Start riffin'...... View AttachmentOK, allow me to digress: I used to write car reviews and was invited to do the Rubicon Trail with Jeep. It was an amazing couple days— we drove down to their camp, spent the night, and drove back out the next day. And when I say drove, I mean Jeeped, because the Rubicon Trail is an awesome stretch of offroading. That night at camp was basically a big party, and they had a guy playing old timey piany like something out of a Western. Turns out we were the last wave and as we were driving out on day 2 we hear the rotors of a helicopter whipping the air overhead. Look up and they were flying the piano out— there it is mid-air suspended from the helicopter by a cargo cable. Never saw anything quite like that on a Land Rover trip! (But those were fun too). Anyway, nice ride drbill . Thanks man! That's an AWESOME story!! Took her out early this morning in the snow we got last night. Super fun....
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Post by drbill on Feb 23, 2023 13:45:47 GMT -6
They are of course two different tools with two different uses. Do not sleep on the missing links. IMO, they are wonderful filters, and add a very nice analog vibe to the signal. I use and have both. If I could have only one or the other, it just might be the missing link. Ohh, that's interesting! Why would you pick them over the VP28, if I may ask? Because of the tone? I remember that I read a comment of yours on the purple forum saying that you used the low pass filters when tracking to soften the high end, to make mixing ITB easier. But I'm not sure if I'm recalling correctly. I think it was an older post, before the Silver Bullet was born. I ask because this was my setup as an insert: D/A -> 1073 -> eq -> compressor -> D/A Surprisingly, the 1073 didn't sound good there. I thought it was a gain staging problem, but I tried everything to no avail. I then went D/A -> eq -> compressor -> 1073 -> A/D And it sounds really, really sweet. What got me thinking was a comment of yours that stated (paraphrasing) that "API into Neve is always a good idea," and obviously I got GAS and now I want MORE tone. Here's how I would use the missing link/VP28: D/A -> eq -> compressor -> ML -> 1073 -> A/D The filters might make more sense at the beginning of the chain, but my experience with the 1073 at the beginning was not good. Would this be a good idea? Yup. Re: vp28 vs ML - Tone and dimensionality. I love the ML there. I don't want to disparage the vp-28's, I just like the missing link better. The vp-28's can probably drive into the "more obvious" category.... re: your chain order.....I think you just have to try it out and see what works best for your esthetic. My instincts tend to go API into Neve on the Silver Bullets, but there are times, that just the opposite is needed. There are a LOT of guys that like N>A on the SB's although I think the majority tend to go A>N. But yeah, depends on the material and your vision. Re: the LPF - yeah, there's a lot of tracks that respond really well to having some HF rolled off, and done appropriately can really clear out some mix harshness. The Missing Link does it really elegantly. Hope that helps. Good luck!
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Post by drbill on Feb 23, 2023 11:01:00 GMT -6
tskguy - I'm getting SOOOOO excited. Looking forward to your thoughts! <thumbsup> An Elam is one of the only holy grail mics I've never had the opportunity to use, so it will be fun!! Might be good on Shakers.
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Post by drbill on Feb 23, 2023 9:47:19 GMT -6
No. If you turn down the fader, the output turns down. It doesn't not have auto make up gain. It's just a line level device. And doesn't sound like a bad idea. The filters are cool and handy. The real use is to use it like...well a fader. So you can push something analog, then knock it back down a bit so it's not clipping your converters. You can push hot into it and hit the input hard. But thats why the VP28 is "cooler" since you can just boost the input gain and attenuate the fader for saturation. I have a lot of the VP528's. They are cool. Not gushing with tone but do add a nice thing without getting in the way. Thanks! So um, I fail then to see the appeal of the missing link (except for the filters and the beautiful fader switch). It seems the VP28 has more tone, can be saturated more easily, is cheaper, easier to build, and can also be used as a preamp! Am I missing something? I wonder whether the console style circuitry adds something that the VP28 doesn't. Does the missing link "compress" a bit like the VP28? The missing link is in stock, so it has that going for it. They are of course two different tools with two different uses. Do not sleep on the missing links. IMO, they are wonderful filters, and add a very nice analog vibe to the signal. I use and have both. If I could have only one or the other, it just might be the missing link.
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 15:55:55 GMT -6
Bill, talk to Tesla. Or give me a call, I went pretty deep down the solar rabbit hole a while back before I bought a system for my house. Matt - thanks!! Will try to do that when I dig out of the work load I'm under right now. Cheers, bp
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 15:35:14 GMT -6
Benny - bgrotto Yup! For guys like us who grew up on consoles with aux sends, it's a definite mind bender. But there are young guys who never even use aux sends. They instantiate all their reverbs on track inserts, have dozens and dozens of verbs instantiated, and use the wet/dry control of the plugin to control their "verb levels". Weird, but workable. And essentially, that's the direction I am turning to for this hardware recall paradigm. and yeah, cpu cycles and busses!!! LOL. Last mix I did I was in the 400's of busses. LOL One thing I am struggling with - my Bricasti. Having only one does not embrace this workflow. Still thinking thru that. I may have some ideas, but still too early for me to comment.... Glad to hear about your workflow! Thx for sharing. If you haven't tried it before, the Seventh Heaven plugin does a pretty good Bricasti impersonation. Might still wanna print the real deal for a big fancy snare or vocal reverb, but for most cases, the plug will probably get the job done very nicely. Yeah, I need to explore that a bit more! Great idea...
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 14:07:36 GMT -6
tskguy - I'm getting SOOOOO excited.
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 14:03:34 GMT -6
Yes it is a paradigm shift. It's worth it to me to be able to have the instant recall with HARDWARE. There are compromises in any type of workflow. Certainly with ITB workflow for me. You can absolutely have automation on the wet/dry levels in PTHDX with this type of setup. No, not printing a wet verb track. Printing it with the program material. You COULD do that, but it would take an already semi-insane setup, and make it almost an impossible setup. It would seriously with 2-3-4-5 different verbs per track. BTW, one thing I forgot to mention. When I'm done automating my mix - I print the print tracks, the stems, and the 2 bus mix all in one fell swoop. Love that!! Got it. So let's stick with snare example. You've got a snare and on the inserts you have a delay, a room, and a reverb. So you print that and put it with the Stage 3 tracks. Do I have that right? But if the client comes back and says they think the snare is reverberant, you go back to Stage 2 and recall all your settings for all your inserts (including dynamics and EQ) and then reprint it? I'm struggling with this part. Yes. For a verb change, you would have to go back to stage 2. But I'm rarely ever finding myself doing that. Actually, I have minimal recalls/remixes, but you gotta be prepared. For my normal setup, for your example, it would be pretty easy - I'd put stage 3 snare on input, the associated stem on input and the mix bus on input, have a wet/dry change on the snare track on the offensive reverb / delay, reprint that one track to stage 3, the stems, and the 2 buss mix track in one fell swoop. Pretty simple once you do it a few times.
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 13:55:50 GMT -6
drbill - this is really similar to my setup as well. It terrifies my students and interns because it is a LOT of tracks 🤣 I use routing folders so I can hide stuff a bit easier, while also gaining their 'aux track'-like facilities. But I struggle with the fx/reverbs thing and haven't yet found a solution to suit my workflow. I guess I need to consider simply changing my workflow. This approach has worked great, especially when receiving decent sounding roughs from outside studios/engineers for me to mix. I can load their PT session right into my template and use their rough as a starting point. Works like a charm. But it definitely tears through busses and CPU cycles in general, esp cuz I'm at 96k most of the time. Happy for HDX Hybrid mode! Probably wouldn't be possible without it. Benny - bgrotto Yup! For guys like us who grew up on consoles with aux sends, it's a definite mind bender. But there are young guys who never even use aux sends. They instantiate all their reverbs on track inserts, have dozens and dozens of verbs instantiated, and use the wet/dry control of the plugin to control their "verb levels". Weird, but workable. And essentially, that's the direction I am turning to for this hardware recall paradigm. and yeah, cpu cycles and busses!!! LOL. Last mix I did I was in the 400's of busses. LOL One thing I am struggling with - my Bricasti. Having only one does not embrace this workflow. Still thinking thru that. I may have some ideas, but still too early for me to comment.... Glad to hear about your workflow! Thx for sharing.
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 13:49:58 GMT -6
Yeah, verbs on every single mix track - no longer as "sends". It's weird at first but I'm getting used to it. You have to or you don't have 100% instant and perfect recall. It's different than I've mixed my entire life, but necessary for the recall aspect. Otherwise, if you print aux verb tracks and have to remove something from a track, the removed instrument will still be heard in the reverb print tracks. The hardware verb tracks become problematic in this approach. Unless you have dozens of hardware verbs. Man, I think I see why you're doing it but that's a total paradigm shift putting verbs on each track. I guess I could set up an automation lane to adjust "mix" level on the verb and that would function like a send knob, so maybe it could work for my brain. Or wait a minute, are you printing a 100% wet 'verb for each track? Instead of doing the verb as an insert, why not just do "one instrument per aux" and print the auxes. Then you could adjust the mix level for the verb as part of your recall. "Hey, can I get less reverb on that snare, it sounds like we recorded it in 1985." "Ouch. Ok. No problem, I'll just pull the snare verb fader down." Yes it is a paradigm shift. It's worth it to me to be able to have the instant recall with HARDWARE. There are compromises in any type of workflow. Certainly with ITB workflow for me. You can absolutely have automation on the wet/dry levels in PTHDX with this type of setup. No, not printing a wet verb track. Printing it with the program material. You COULD do that, but it would take an already semi-insane setup, and make it almost an impossible setup. It would seriously with 2-3-4-5 different verbs per track. BTW, one thing I forgot to mention. When I'm done automating my mix - I print the print tracks, the stems, and the 2 bus mix all in one fell swoop. Love that!!
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 12:24:17 GMT -6
When mixing, Print tracks, Stem tracks, and Stereo mix bus are all on "input". This method chews up a LOT of busses internally (can easily get into the hundreds), but offers me a 100% recall of everything. The one thing that I'm still getting used to is not using Aux sends to hit the verbs. Each raw mix track gets it's own reverb (or for me, reverbS) so that it prints with automated raw material to the Print tracks. This approach is actually not that far off from what I do with a couple key differences. The first is that I do it in multiple projects (I like your approach better, just handle that with different sets of mutes/hidden tracks... keep everything wired up if you need to recall it thus removing the need to juggle endless files) and the second is that you print FX on each track. Works in this setup. Appealing. However... I'm not sure I understand the section I quoted above. The rest makes total sense to me, but are you saying you're doing 'verbs on each individual track instead of on a send? Is that so that you can print the track with spatial effects? This seems difficult to me from a mixing perspective not to mention resource intensive. Also, I have a couple HW verbs I like to use that I bus. Can you elaborate? Yeah, verbs on every single mix track - no longer as "sends". It's weird at first but I'm getting used to it. You have to or you don't have 100% instant and perfect recall. It's different than I've mixed my entire life, but necessary for the recall aspect. Otherwise, if you print aux verb tracks and have to remove something from a track, the removed instrument will still be heard in the reverb print tracks. The hardware verb tracks become problematic in this approach. Unless you have dozens of hardware verbs.
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 12:19:07 GMT -6
Digidesign 442. Look it up..... The only 442 I remember is the Cutlass. Hahaaaa!! The Cutlass was way preferable....
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 11:27:22 GMT -6
Digidesign 442. Look it up.....
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Post by drbill on Feb 22, 2023 11:15:46 GMT -6
My new "instant hardware recall" paradigm, which is still in a bit of metamorphosis, that has taken me years to realize.
This is kinda the first time I've shared it publicly. It is 100% recallable, quite elegant, and requires 5 "sets" of tracks to accomplish. The template gets set up before I even start into the writing / production stage, and I'm only looking at ONE of the sets of 5 at any point in time. The rest of the tracks are hidden. All the hidden tracks are pre-bussed and on "input" and "solo safe'd" the entire time.
Once you move past say, stage 1, you deactivate and hide stage1, and move to stage 2. Once you're mixed, if you need recall to push up the volume of a vocal, or tweak the bass - you ignore stage 1 and stage 2 and accomplish the remix tweak on stage 3 which is all at unity with no plugins or automation or hardware (it's all printed) - and you make your tweak. If you need serious gutting of the mix, you need to go back to stage 2 which is really more of a "remix" and not a recall tweak. Stage 4 - the stems.....they are a complication to be sure, but more and more clients are asking for it, so I put it in the template. I'm not sure if I will keep it in my final template - I'll see how things progress. There is zero doubt - this is a PITA to setup, but ironically, very simple once you get it dialed :
- 1. Midi, and Cut up production tracks > into : - 2. Raw Mix tracks with Automation, EQ, Compression, etc. > into : - 3. Print Tracks (the same number as Raw Mix Tracks) - @ Unity printed with automation, and all FX > into : - 4. Stem Tracks (reduced from the Print Tracks in logical configuration) @ Unity > into : - 5. Stereo Mix Bus Track @ Unity
This situation will allow for a global tweak (stems), a 100% recall tweak (print tracks), a serious fix or redo of something that is not a 100% recall (raw mix tracks), or more of a re-write fix (midi and production tracks). You can literally back up from final 2 buss mix in steps as far back as you need to go. With the first few steps literally being "instant" recall, and being able to go beyond "instant" recall to really redoing the mix with ease.
When mixing, Print tracks, Stem tracks, and Stereo mix bus are all on "input". This method chews up a LOT of busses internally (can easily get into the hundreds), but offers me a 100% recall of everything. The one thing that I'm still getting used to is not using Aux sends to hit the verbs. Each raw mix track gets it's own reverb (or for me, reverbS) so that it prints with automated raw material to the Print tracks.
This 100% solves the "I can't mix hybrid, cause I need instant and 100% recall". It also allows for significant "changes" on individual tracks easily. Honestly, after dealing with all the setup and bussing issues, it becomes as easy as a 100% ITB recalled mix - ONLY WITH HARDWARE. And I don't need to take snapshots, make notes, or remember anything. If I do have to go back to stage 2 - I do not need any hardware notes cause if I have to go that far back, I'm seriously changing something. Otherwise, I make it happen on stage 3. Its rare that I have to go back beyond stage 3 to tweak anything - but it's there if I need to....
I need to install the latest PT version so that I can put each "group of tracks" into nested folders so that I'm not looking at hundreds of tracks. BTW, HDX might be mandatory for this style of mixing due to serious power requirements and latency, but I suppose it depends on your computer and its power. This approach uses a lot of busses and mixing juice to make it work - HDX easily handles it, but other DAWs may work as well. At least for me, HDX is a Godsend with this.
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Post by drbill on Feb 21, 2023 17:02:50 GMT -6
My point is just that there is a legitimate reason to use plugins during tracking. That's cool if it's what you like. It doesn't matter WHAT kind of DAW you're using though, you'd better be bringing your own computer or tracking at your own studio, cause no studio is going to have exactly what you need/want.
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Post by drbill on Feb 21, 2023 17:01:01 GMT -6
But how do you monitor through the plugs you're going to use so that you know the tones you are getting are the right ones for the mix? I'm with drbill on this one, I've never seen it done, never done it. Haha! Maybe we're just getting old Doug. LOL Old Silo's......
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Post by drbill on Feb 21, 2023 16:52:28 GMT -6
Honestly? I don't know anyone who monitors thru plugins. I've never seen it happen. I'm sure home guys do it, but I've never been at a big studio and see that happen. A non issue for me. But that's kind of a siloed response, no? I realize that YOU don't do that or see it done, but that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of people who DO do that, and in a professional context, no less. So I don't think it's fair to say that only "home" guys monitor through plugins, especially when the lines between "home" and "pro" are so blurred these days. What does "pro" even mean anymore? On a side note, I recently was at a talk where the idea of people getting in their own little silos, was being discussed. We're all guilty of it, to one degree or another, so I'm not pointing fingers. I only bring this up because, during the talk, silos were jokingly referred to as "cylinders of excellence". I got a laugh out of that. I wasn't talking only about my sessions. I'm talking about hundreds of sessions I've either done myself, engineered, produced, played on, music edited, or hung out at. Maybe it's an LA thing... ?? But I'm not "Siloed" I don't think. Doug seems to agree. Maybe we're stereo Silo's. I've been in the hub of music for all my life, and the entire life of digital DAW's. Even done it internationally. Never seen anyone tracking thru plugins. Not even once. Maybe it's a Luna thing? [edit - btw, reverb? Yeah, all the time. I took it as special FX, EQ, preamp emulations, compressors, etc.. For me, I get all that analog before it ever hits the DAW.]
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Post by drbill on Feb 21, 2023 15:40:12 GMT -6
I heard from Matt today!!! Woohoooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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