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Post by chessparov on May 31, 2019 9:18:54 GMT -6
IMHO... U87 = 1st primary vocal microphone for a Commercial Studio.
Whereas... Whatever microphone you think is outstanding = Personal Studio.
Then when you see Jake and Elwood, in The Blues Brothers, selling the Caddy for a microphone-Well it all makes total sense! Chris
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Post by brenta on May 31, 2019 9:42:46 GMT -6
IMHO... U87 = 1st primary vocal microphone for a Commercial Studio. Whereas... Whatever microphone you think is outstanding = Personal Studio. Then when you see Jake and Elwood, in The Blues Brothers, selling the Caddy for a microphone-Well it all makes total sense! Chris "You traded the bluesmobile for a microphone?!? Ok, I can see that." Lol
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Post by jacobamerritt on May 31, 2019 10:23:34 GMT -6
As I think about the $1000 or so mics I’ve used, I feel like a lot of them lose sonic information the further they are from the source, or are only really good on an up front vocal sound. Do any of the $1500 range mics still work well with some distance, say a room mic on drums?
For example Tele Copperhead, Lauten Atlantis/Clarion, Roswell Colares?
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Post by johneppstein on May 31, 2019 11:38:48 GMT -6
They ask for something "like a U47." The Pearlman comes close enough to the tube 47. The Heiserman comes VERY close to the FET. Have you tried either?
No, I haven’t. That’s why I asked how you’re liking it in my post that you quoted. I’ve used the originals they’re based on. Knowing what I know about clients that actually pay for studio time these days, I found it pretty incredible that you would have clients requesting a Heiserman or Pearlman by name. Turns out I was right. This has nothing to do with the quality of Heiserman or Pearlman, it just demonstrates the reality of the studio business these days. The only people who know what a Heiserman or Pearlman are are people on gear forums, and everyone on gear forums has their own studio and are therefore highly unlikely to pay money to use someone else’s studio. If they were to want a real U47 I'm pretty sure I could supply one or two - if they didn't totally balk at the rental cost. But since most of them don't get past the cost of tape I don't think it's likely.
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Post by johneppstein on May 31, 2019 12:47:35 GMT -6
Have you considered rolling off the treble just a touch?
I like the low end on the mic, and find the top to be much morte manageable than the Shures, as the response in the presence region is much smoother. The Shures get really ragged in the presence region (and no two are really the same, which can make monitor EQ difficult), which exacerbates problems I have with sibilance on my own voice.
I haven't. About once a year I see a thread like this and go back and revisit the M88TG on my vocals. It sounds so bad on me that I wouldn't think of EQing it over pulling out a mic that I know will work. I've never had a problem with sibilence on any other mic like I do with the M88. Have you considered the possibility that it might be broken? Because that sounds the opposite of my experience with 88s in good condition - but when they go bad they often get thin, and beyers are more fragile than Shures.
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Post by johneppstein on May 31, 2019 12:57:15 GMT -6
Until now the only issues I've ever seen or heard of someone having with the off-axis response of a 57 is with hi-hat bleed into a snare mic, but that's not exclusive to SM57's. Cymbal bleed into tom mics would be another - both 57s and 421s have problems with that.
I've heard plenty of home recordings of acoustic guitar or vocals done on 57s where people blamed room acoustics for bad room sound when it was (obviously) the 57. I'd know that signature anywhere. A lot of people overdamp their rooms trying to get rid of that sound when what they need is a better mic.
57s work well for close micing electric guitar cabs if you're looking for that particular thing they do on rock guitar.
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Post by Guitar on May 31, 2019 13:13:45 GMT -6
Until now the only issues I've ever seen or heard of someone having with the off-axis response of a 57 is with hi-hat bleed into a snare mic, but that's not exclusive to SM57's. Cymbal bleed into tom mics would be another - both 57s and 421s have problems with that.
I've heard plenty of home recordings of acoustic guitar or vocals done on 57s where people blamed room acoustics for bad room sound when it was (obviously) the 57. I'd know that signature anywhere. A lot of people overdamp their rooms trying to get rid of that sound when what they need is a better mic.
57s work well for close micing electric guitar cabs if you're looking for that particular thing they do on rock guitar.
Yep. "That particular thing they do on rock guitar." That's my favorite and primary use of an SM57 these days. More specifically for heavy/high gain stuff. For vocals I have other handheld mics that are a bit more friendly and ready to use.
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Post by bradd on May 31, 2019 13:30:34 GMT -6
I haven't. About once a year I see a thread like this and go back and revisit the M88TG on my vocals. It sounds so bad on me that I wouldn't think of EQing it over pulling out a mic that I know will work. I've never had a problem with sibilence on any other mic like I do with the M88. Have you considered the possibility that it might be broken? Because that sounds the oppositer of my experience with 88s in good condition - but when they go bad they often get thin, and beyers are more fragile than Shures. Both of mine sound similar, but I'll check them out again this weekend. That is a good thought.
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Post by Omicron9 on May 31, 2019 13:42:34 GMT -6
Mics from the AKG 414 family are like Swiss army knives in the studio. They work on so many things. *Which* 414 is another matter entirely, but there's enough variety that you'd no doubt find something useful.
A used U87 is never a bad choice.
And in both cases, you never have to worry about resale value. Just a thought.
-09
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Post by chessparov on May 31, 2019 14:08:08 GMT -6
Within their line, I really liked Warm's WA-47 and WA-414. (251's are not the best match on me). The U47-ish AA CM48T though, seems quite the bargain! Chris
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Post by jacobamerritt on May 31, 2019 14:38:06 GMT -6
Within their line, I really liked Warm's WA-47 and WA-414. (251's are not the best match on me). The U47-ish AA CM48T though, seems quite the bargain! Chris I am literally internet hunting the CM48T now... Any thoughts Vincent R. or ragan? Any opinions vs. say a Telefunken Copperhead, or Lauten Clarion/Atlantis? I wish the AA microphones didnt look so vanilla. I like when my artists are like 'OOOH!' when they get in front a mic.
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Post by swurveman on May 31, 2019 14:44:47 GMT -6
As I think about the $1000 or so mics I’ve used, I feel like a lot of them lose sonic information the further they are from the source, or are only really good on an up front vocal sound. Do any of the $1500 range mics still work well with some distance, say a room mic on drums? For example Tele Copperhead, Lauten Atlantis/Clarion, Roswell Colares? You can hear the Atlantis 387 used as a room mic at the 50 second mark in this video. Of course, it depends on how good the room sounds. The Atlantis is a good all purpose mic.
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Post by chessparov on May 31, 2019 15:05:26 GMT -6
My "bling" mic, is the MXL V67me.
Though ironically, I may throw an AA 47 capsule in it someday!
Most likely will put a NOS Mullard tube in it first, and then hear how it sounds.
It'll be great for when I start my big rap'n career. Gett'n down with my homies, and cruise'n with the Fly Girls. Word! Chris
P.S. That singer in the video, Tony-sounded terrific!
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Post by ragan on May 31, 2019 15:18:18 GMT -6
Within their line, I really liked Warm's WA-47 and WA-414. (251's are not the best match on me). The U47-ish AA CM48T though, seems quite the bargain! Chris I am literally internet hunting the CM48T now... Any thoughts Vincent R. or ragan ? Any opinions vs. say a Telefunken Copperhead, or Lauten Clarion/Atlantis? I wish the AA microphones didnt look so vanilla. I like when my artists are like 'OOOH!' when they get in front a mic. I haven't used any of the AA mics I'm afraid. Last I knew they were all small variants of the same CCDA circuit with capsules voiced to approximate the sonic vibe of their namesakes. I think they're on the clean side and, by most reports, quite solid. I have a Stellar CM-5, which is the same mic as AA's CM12 but with a resistor clipped. It's a pretty nice mic, certainly for the money. The AA stuff costs more but you get Dave along with it who supports his products well. The Warm stuff is trying to copy more of the layout and colour of the originals (though they're not identical circuits I don't think). Different aims though. I've heard the WA87, the WA47 and the WA84 and I found all of them solid. You could spend more and do worse in my view.
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Post by brenta on May 31, 2019 15:34:22 GMT -6
As I think about the $1000 or so mics I’ve used, I feel like a lot of them lose sonic information the further they are from the source, or are only really good on an up front vocal sound. Do any of the $1500 range mics still work well with some distance, say a room mic on drums? For example Tele Copperhead, Lauten Atlantis/Clarion, Roswell Colares? The custom Barbaric M49 I have sounds phenomenal on drum room, maybe the best I’ve heard. Tons of meat. The mic has great reach on everything I’ve tried it on. It actually doesn’t do well with a singer right up on the grill, gets a little too thick in the low mids. You can get one built for under $1500 easily or go with his stock BA49 for less than $1k. The only drawback I can think of is that resale value probably wouldn’t be great since it isn’t a known brand, but I think that is changing as word gets out. Not a problem for me as I don’t ever plan on selling mine. I actually want to have him build me another so I have a pair. Its similar to the Gefell UM70 in a lot of ways, but has more low end extension and more low mids, and has the sound qualities that a tube circuit adds as well. It’s also a much more impressive looking mic than the Gefell, which depending on your situation might not matter at all or might matter a lot. A couple weeks ago I was recording a client with it and he posted a picture of the mic to his Instagram. 20 minutes later he said he was getting a ton of messages from his musician friends asking what mic it was and where was he recording. That kind of free marketing is worth a lot to me.
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Post by ml on May 31, 2019 16:07:21 GMT -6
I recently sold my Manley Ref C and I don't miss it. I was never THAT impressed by its sound and I had sibilance issues with it on my voice. I am getting by with my trusty sm7b and a cheap blue Spark that i got for free. For some reason the spark always sounds great on my voice (baritone). It's not the prettiest sounding mic, kind of metallic but it always works for my voice. My chain is usually Mic > BAE 1073mp > Distressor. I figure I could buy 2 or 3 midrange mics for the price of a flagship mic like a vintage U87 (i.e. WA-251, WA-47 & a WA-87) and have all the flavors available. But is it worth it? The search goes on...
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Post by sirthought on May 31, 2019 22:35:51 GMT -6
Do any of the $1500 range mics still work well with some distance, say a room mic on drums? For example Tele Copperhead, Lauten Atlantis/Clarion, Roswell Colares? I think the Colares seems like an interesting option. I almost pulled the trigger on a used one for $800. A guy on YouTube had some interesting videos on this, but it was more vocals. The TG mic, which I did get, has done nicely in a drum room setting on my tests. Both omni and cardioid sounded detailed about 10 feet from the kit. I also considered a Barbaric M49. As was said, resale value is the main concern. It likely would be a heavy lifter.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 1, 2019 9:37:01 GMT -6
Here is the problem with this discussion it’s not a about the price it’s about the voice and the particular mic. I know voices that do sound killer on generic the China mic of the month club, others that the SM7b out shines the Holy Grail mics. Some where a 57 is what you want to hear. Chase what works best for you in the budget you can afford don’t get caught in chasing a specific type of clone, because what a 67 brings to the party on you may just be what’s lacking in that cheap clone.
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Post by mulmany on Jun 1, 2019 11:12:37 GMT -6
The other factor is whether you are recording as a pro or semi-pro, as in seeking and advertising recording services.
I am in the hobby, semi-pro arena. I need enough options for the random projects I take on. But most of my tracking gigs are friends or "friends of friends". I think in terms of universal work horses. I have bought mics that I believed would suit most of my clients, some work out others not so much.
Saying all this to point out that universal tools tend to cost a little more, but bring in client or are proven studio Staples.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Jun 1, 2019 12:19:08 GMT -6
Here is the problem with this discussion it’s not a about the price it’s about the voice and the particular mic. Of course there isn’t a ‘one size fits all’ mic. But surely everyone has a mic or two they see as their ‘workhorse’. A good studio all a rounder.
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Post by brenta on Jun 1, 2019 12:57:49 GMT -6
For an all around workhorse for a semi-pro or pro studio I think it’s tough to beat an 87. And don’t be afraid of the Ai. It’s also an expandable mic now with the max mod and innertube options.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 2, 2019 6:03:18 GMT -6
Within their line, I really liked Warm's WA-47 and WA-414. (251's are not the best match on me). The U47-ish AA CM48T though, seems quite the bargain! Chris I am literally internet hunting the CM48T now... Any thoughts Vincent R. or ragan ? Any opinions vs. say a Telefunken Copperhead, or Lauten Clarion/Atlantis? I wish the AA microphones didnt look so vanilla. I like when my artists are like 'OOOH!' when they get in front a mic. Hey Jacob, I’d personally put the CM48T in the same category as Warm’s WA47. They are probably a little sonically different and both fairly solid, but neither one is going to match something like a FleA 47. When Advanced Audio let me demo the CM48T I already owned their CM12, CM251, CM67LE (with custom vintage mode) and CM49 all of which I have sold over the years. Without a doubt my favorite was the CM49. Its a little more open and lacks the low end of my FleA 49, but without a was a solid offering that I only sold after getting my FleA 49 and only to help fund my TLM170, which as a classical artist makes sense to have. All of the AA mics share similar tube circuits. AA uses different transformers, capsules, tubes, and circuit tweaking to dial in the sound of each mic. They are generally cleaner sounding than their vintage counterparts and have less low end. They are also not generally harsh on top, but a bit more open than their vintage counterparts. I honestly used the AA mics to help me dial in “my sound” so I knew what I really wanted in the high end market. When I received the CM48T to demo jtc111 came by with his FleA 47 to try all my AA mics as he was looking for a workhorse mic that was another sonic option to work with his FleA 47 on mid side recordings, etc. We put up a bunch of mics that day and both had some fun. I did a few shootouts with it, the first of which I posted as a video a couple of months ago. I think you can can really hear the quality of both the CM49 and CM48T in the video and next to the FleA 47 and my U87ai. Jim and I both felt that the CM48T was more modern sounding than the FleA with less beef in the low mids and less low end all together. I do have some other clips I haven’t posted of it. I had previously owned a Peluso 2247SE and felt the CM48T wasn’t as bright in a good way, but also didn’t have that bigger than life sound as either the Peluso or the FleA. That said, with a little EQ it was easy to dial a bit of that in. Also, at $599 it’s an amazingly priced microphone. I’ve said it on RGO before, if I had an opportunity to record a big ensemble; orchestral or big band, a pair of these would be great little tools, especially as they come with a built in pad and roll off. I actually tried to get humblecomposer over to try it on trumpet, but he was too busy at the time. I felt it could really shine on trumpet, especially with the smooth top end. You just can’t expect to be buying a U47. It’s certainly 47ish, but it’s definitely priced where it should be in today’s modern budget clone market. Another quick note, after the shoot out Jim chose not to grab an AA mic, but picked up the Lauten Atlantis as his workhorse mic instead. I know he’s really happy with it and with 3 voicings it might be a good choice as a good workhorse. If you really want a 47ish or 67ish mic the best bang for your buck would be a custom build, the only issue with them would be resale if you ever want to upgrade down the road.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 6:23:47 GMT -6
I had a CM48T for vocals for a year but never really gelled with it so let it go. Sounded a bit bright and lispy/essy on my voice.
I had an SM7b and SM57 too, liked them both! SM7b sounded great on my voice for close up voice-overs when I was doing a DJ radio show.
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