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Post by M57 on May 10, 2019 14:26:42 GMT -6
First let me start off by saying that the singer/songwriter in me really wants to stay ITB once I get there, but the admittedly amateur engineer in me wants to go through as much RL hardware as possible. So my thought is that I want to go through HW on the way in. I have a single WA-2A which I always use for vocals on the way in, but I'm looking for something for the piano, which I record in stereo. I suppose I could just get another 2A (though they would not necessarily be well matched), but I'm thinking it would be much easier/more convenient to just patch a stereo comp on the way in. Then, just for giggles, and just hypothetically speaking let's say that that at some time in the future, and for some crazy reason I might consider venturing OTB with the same comp, either for the 2-buss or for bouncing the occasion sub-mix through. I would like to hit a more entry level price point - say in the $700-$1500 range, but folks are welcome to make recommendations outside of that range (It's not like I could stop you, right?). Anyway, the Audio-Scape Buss Compressor is sitting at the top of my list right now. The price is right, and I'm not too ashamed to admit that I like the fact that it doesn't have too many knobs for me to screw things up - though I would have preferred if it had a "mix" knob so I wouldn't have to do the parallel thing. Speaking of parallel, how do I do that? I don't want to spice cables, do I? ..and it seems like overkill to buy a 8x8 patch bay. Is there a good 2 channel splitter out there?
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Post by Blackdawg on May 10, 2019 14:33:21 GMT -6
A VCA buss compressor is going to be your more flexible compressor Id say so good choice. I'd look at the Serpent SB4001 over the Audioscape one. It has way more features and is only a bit more money and sounds epic. Better filtering on the side chain, more attack and release time options..oh and built in parallel You'd have to get a 500 serise PSU chassis of course which adds to the cost however, I see that as a great investment for you to keep adding more great and affordable hardware. there are a TON of GREAT DIY 500 kits out there that are easy to build. Otherwise, if you want the AS one, to do really outboard parallel you can either add in the PCB yourself later, or you'd want to make a send n blend type box yourself. Doing parallel from out of the computer to a unit and back in to blend it in with the dry signal still on the computer can often not sound so good.
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Post by Tbone81 on May 10, 2019 14:43:47 GMT -6
Just got the Buzz Audio DBC comp myself and im loving it. It works great on individual tracks and busses. Super simple in operation with a minimum of controls and fits your price range.
You might also want to consider a Drawmwr 1968 comp for all the same reasons. I’ve also heard the JDK R22 is a great comp. And then of coarse there’s the Art VLA which can take you pretty far for cheap. If you go that route I’d snatch up a revive audio one.
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Post by M57 on May 10, 2019 14:45:25 GMT -6
Hmm, I wasn't thinking about 500 series. My 500 rack is full. It's just a 4-bagger but I could sell it and upgrade.
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Post by brenta on May 10, 2019 14:51:03 GMT -6
There's three compressors I can think of off the top of my head that I think work equally great for tracking, mixing, and mastering. The API 2500, the Drawmer 1968, and SSL style bus compressors.
Depending on your tastes and the style of music you are doing, you may find the API and Drawmer to be too colored at times. Or you may not.
If you go with an SSL style I would recommend the Wesaudio Dione. It has a mix knob so you can do parallel compression right on the unit. You can get the Dione and a 500 rack within your budget. And best of all, it recalls just like a plugin! No documenting settings or taking pictures or anything like that. Just open your session and boom it's recalled.
Otherwise, if you have a patchbay you can set it up for parallel processing by having two outputs from your interface set up as half-normalled.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 10, 2019 14:54:05 GMT -6
I would look at the 500 series Elysia M-pressors and would avoid a stereo compressor for piano. You don't necessarily want the left hand compressing your right hand with the piano.
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Post by brenta on May 10, 2019 15:06:11 GMT -6
I would look at the 500 series Elysia M-pressors and would avoid a stereo compressor for piano. You don't necessarily want the left hand compressing your right hand with the piano. This is a good point. A nice thing about the API 2500 is the link control. You can have the sides linked 100%, not linked at all, or somewhere in between. I don’t know what kind of music you are doing but the 2500 might be too colored for classical piano, it’s probably fine for anything else though.
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Post by stormymondays on May 10, 2019 16:47:56 GMT -6
Another vote for the Drawmer 1968. I have it parked on drum buss but it feels like it could do anything I want it to. It’s also dual mono if you don’t want stereo link.
The TK Audio SSL-style compressor is fantastic and it has parallel built-in, though I never feel the need to use it.
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Post by timcampbell on May 10, 2019 16:49:05 GMT -6
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Post by M57 on May 10, 2019 18:15:08 GMT -6
I would look at the 500 series Elysia M-pressors and would avoid a stereo compressor for piano. You don't necessarily want the left hand compressing your right hand with the piano. So do I want two compressors - not linked? ..or are there some comps with a high pass filter so the left hand doesn't kick it in as much? ..and if this is not the case, how do folks deal with stereo piano recordings when they need compression??
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Post by M57 on May 10, 2019 18:20:27 GMT -6
The TK Audio SSL-style compressor is fantastic and it has parallel built-in, though I never feel the need to use it. The TK A also looks like it ticks all the boxes with the HP filter. Does any one think I'd be making a big mistake throwing compression on a piano going into the box?
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Post by ragan on May 10, 2019 18:24:42 GMT -6
The TK Audio SSL-style compressor is fantastic and it has parallel built-in, though I never feel the need to use it. The TK A also looks like it ticks all the boxes with the HP filter. Does any one think I'd be making a big mistake throwing compression on a piano going into the box? If you’re very confident in your settings, no. Otherwise just have it on an insert and print when you’re ready.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 10, 2019 18:40:38 GMT -6
I would look at the 500 series Elysia M-pressors and would avoid a stereo compressor for piano. You don't necessarily want the left hand compressing your right hand with the piano. So do I want two compressors - not linked? ..or are there some comps with a high pass filter so the left hand doesn't kick it in as much? ..and if this is not the case, how do folks deal with stereo piano recordings when they need compression?? I would compress with dual mono compressors. Either a stereo unit with the link turned off, or 2 mono units. The idea behind a stereo linked compressor is that when either the left or right cross the threshold, both sides will compress together. Assuming you have the left hand panned left and the right panned right, you won't want the left signal compressing the right signal.
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Post by Tbone81 on May 10, 2019 19:14:04 GMT -6
A lot of this depends on how your micing the piano. I usually use an xy pair of ribbons about 6-7’ out and have been getting a good tone like that. and in my case I really don’t have to worry about any left hand/right hand differences because the mics “see” both hands as the same source. The stereo separation I get is more about the room sound. If you’re putting mics under the lid, pointed at the strings, that changes things. Make sense?
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Post by M57 on May 10, 2019 19:38:13 GMT -6
A lot of this depends on how your micing the piano. I usually use an xy pair of ribbons about 6-7’ out and have been getting a good tone like that. and in my case I really don’t have to worry about any left hand/right hand differences because the mics “see” both hands as the same source. The stereo separation I get is more about the room sound. If you’re putting mics under the lid, pointed at the strings, that changes things. Make sense? So I'm using a pair of AKG 451Bs. Lid off, but pretty close because I'm trying to take a bit of the room out of the equation. It's just a home studio for personal projects, but as you can see I've got a fair amount of treatment going on and the room doesn't sound bad.
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Post by Blackdawg on May 10, 2019 21:38:16 GMT -6
I would look at the 500 series Elysia M-pressors and would avoid a stereo compressor for piano. You don't necessarily want the left hand compressing your right hand with the piano. So do I want two compressors - not linked? ..or are there some comps with a high pass filter so the left hand doesn't kick it in as much? ..and if this is not the case, how do folks deal with stereo piano recordings when they need compression?? No some compressors will do both. Either a true stereo side chain or linked.
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Post by timcampbell on May 11, 2019 3:41:58 GMT -6
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Post by M57 on May 11, 2019 7:25:34 GMT -6
I would look at the 500 series Elysia M-pressors and would avoid a stereo compressor for piano. You don't necessarily want the left hand compressing your right hand with the piano. So I'm still not sure why I shouldn't consider a stereo compressor with a side chain filter like the X-pressor or the Serpent? Wouldn't that go a long way towards mitigating the left hand issue? I mean, I can see where it would make some difference to have two separate comps going, but the mics are only about 15" apart. and even if I was using separate compressors, wouldn't I still want to consider a HPF on the right hand mic anyway? btw, the mpressor has no side chain capabilities.. Don't I want that feature, especially if I'm thinking about the possibility of using it elsewhere? I don't need real SC, but a HP filter can come in handy, right?
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Post by stormymondays on May 11, 2019 8:49:39 GMT -6
The TK also has a HPF for the sidechain.
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Post by theshea on May 11, 2019 9:34:36 GMT -6
i suggest the drawmer 1978, well within your budget. it has comp, saturation and a sidechain/eq section that works very well. plus a blend knob for parallel. it sits on my stereobus but gets used also for printing drumbusses as it it very versatile. some call it "the poor man api 2500".
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Post by mikec on May 11, 2019 9:36:04 GMT -6
I have the Audioscape Bus comp and it lives permanently on my mix bus in the insert of the my Silver Bullet. I also have a Serpent SB4001 and find it very versatile. It can do bus duties, drums, guitars, vocals, and what ever else I throw at it. I would not want to do without either.
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Post by M57 on May 11, 2019 9:43:02 GMT -6
i suggest the drawmer 1978, well within your budget. it has comp, saturation and a sidechain/eq section that works very well. plus a blend knob for parallel. it sits on my stereobus but gets used also for printing drumbusses as it it very versatile. some call it "the poor man api 2500". Looks nice, and versatile. Any particular reason you're recommending FET over VCA?
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 11, 2019 9:48:17 GMT -6
I would look at the 500 series Elysia M-pressors and would avoid a stereo compressor for piano. You don't necessarily want the left hand compressing your right hand with the piano. So I'm still not sure why I shouldn't consider a stereo compressor with a side chain filter like the X-pressor or the Serpent? Wouldn't that go a long way towards mitigating the left hand issue? I mean, I can see where it would make some difference to have two separate comps going, but the mics are only about 15" apart. and even if I was using separate compressors, wouldn't I still want to consider a HPF on the right hand mic anyway? btw, the mpressor has no side chain capabilities.. Don't I want that feature, especially if I'm thinking about the possibility of using it elsewhere? I don't need real SC, but a HP filter can come in handy, right? The HP side chain is unrelated to what I'm talking about. With a stereo compressor, both channels compress when either side crosses the threshold. So if either hand is banging away on a part, it's going to compress both sides, whether they need it or not. This will collapse your stereo spread. I would much rather have something that does dual mono than have a HP filter or mix knob.
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Post by Guitar on May 11, 2019 9:48:59 GMT -6
If you're on a budget you could consider the FMR RNC and RNLA.
The build quality on those things is incredibly annoying, wall warts, no rack mount, unbalanced connections.
But if you can deal with all that, they sound pretty good.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,918
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Post by ericn on May 11, 2019 10:23:49 GMT -6
So I'm still not sure why I shouldn't consider a stereo compressor with a side chain filter like the X-pressor or the Serpent? Wouldn't that go a long way towards mitigating the left hand issue? I mean, I can see where it would make some difference to have two separate comps going, but the mics are only about 15" apart. and even if I was using separate compressors, wouldn't I still want to consider a HPF on the right hand mic anyway? btw, the mpressor has no side chain capabilities.. Don't I want that feature, especially if I'm thinking about the possibility of using it elsewhere? I don't need real SC, but a HP filter can come in handy, right? The HP side chain is unrelated to what I'm talking about. With a stereo compressor, both channels compress when either side crosses the threshold. So if either hand is banging away on a part, it's going to compress both sides, whether they need it or not. This will collapse your stereo spread. I would much rather have something that does dual mono than have a HP filter or mix knob. Depends on the compressor some use a single channel, detector, some mix the signal sent to the detector some use 2 detectors and respond to the one with the highest need for compression.
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