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Post by johneppstein on Mar 21, 2019 23:41:17 GMT -6
After reading the thread, I took a look at this vid. More features and much more thought out by SSL than my first impression. I'd never know how to use this mixer without a tutorial. Lots more than an SSL Behringer. Tracking with 2 mic channels of "full" (well, optimized for real use) SSL eq and comp, and one more of "talkback" pro-equivalent mic pre AND "Phil Collins' talkback comp" if desired. The shelf/bell makes the two band eq much more useful, different freqs and sound. Lots of mixdown analog summing, 12 line level tracks off the DAW in all, into an "optimized" (based on the tried and true settings) SSL bus comp. What it'll do is give the bedroom studio person encouragement to EQ and Comp going into DAW. Then give everybody a multitrack analog summing option (assuming you can break out your DAW tracks to analog) into an industry standard 2-bus comp with an insert for more processing back to the DAW. Not so shabby, and worth the price, I think. But it doesn't even have enough "full featured" channels to track a kit, even using a basic 4 mic setup. I just don't get a "mixer" that lacks enough channels to actually mix something on.
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 23:47:48 GMT -6
Post by johneppstein on Mar 21, 2019 23:47:48 GMT -6
It has features similar to a $75 Behringer and is priced way too high
Have they done the China thing before or was the Fusion the first product they outsourced? Seems they've queued up a few things from a few brainstorming meetings regarding that new supplier. You do understand that I was indulging in a bit of, er, hyperbole there, it wasn't to be taken literally, right?
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 23:59:56 GMT -6
Post by christopher on Mar 21, 2019 23:59:56 GMT -6
When using Burl to mix on, or any other colored chain... disconnect the speakers and patch the monitor feeds to your input. You will be much happier. Lesson learned the hard way
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 22, 2019 1:00:30 GMT -6
I think like donr this is aimed at a certain market segrnrnt and it is very well designed and priced but it’s not for everyone.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 22, 2019 5:45:03 GMT -6
After reading the thread, I took a look at this vid. More features and much more thought out by SSL than my first impression. I'd never know how to use this mixer without a tutorial. Lots more than an SSL Behringer. Tracking with 2 mic channels of "full" (well, optimized for real use) SSL eq and comp, and one more of "talkback" pro-equivalent mic pre AND "Phil Collins' talkback comp" if desired. The shelf/bell makes the two band eq much more useful, different freqs and sound. Lots of mixdown analog summing, 12 line level tracks off the DAW in all, into an "optimized" (based on the tried and true settings) SSL bus comp. What it'll do is give the bedroom studio person encouragement to EQ and Comp going into DAW. Then give everybody a multitrack analog summing option (assuming you can break out your DAW tracks to analog) into an industry standard 2-bus comp with an insert for more processing back to the DAW. Not so shabby, and worth the price, I think. But it doesn't even have enough "full featured" channels to track a kit, even using a basic 4 mic setup. I just don't get a "mixer" that lacks enough channels to actually mix something on. Most people these days aren't tracking a kit. This is absolutely aimed at producers tracking vocals on the road, singer/songwriter types that are using midi drums, and podcasters. The SSL Alpha Channel sells for $1400. This is a hundred bucks more and has WAY more features for the uses I mentioned above. Did you look at the Sound on Sound article? The specs look impressive. Plenty of guys are spending $1500 on a stereo preamp alone. This provides WAY more functionality at the same price.
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Post by donr on Mar 22, 2019 8:12:01 GMT -6
Market research must have revealed almost all music recorded today doesn't have live drums. You could still use outboard mic pre's for full kit recording. Lots of sneaky routing possibilites with the 6 which aren't obvious.
I take John Epstein's point tho. Two more mic channels would be nicer.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 22, 2019 8:36:35 GMT -6
Market research must have revealed almost all music recorded today doesn't have live drums. You could still use outboard mic pre's for full kit recording. Lots of sneaky routing possibilites with the 6 which aren't obvious. I take John Epstein's point tho. Two more mic channels would be nicer. Don I think John, myself and others see it this way 95+% of the market they are aiming for are not going to read the manual or watch the video. They think 6 inputs means 6 full feature Channels and are going to get frustrated and end up slagging and dumping the thing. They hit the spec sheet feature set for their market, they just don’t understand the customer or how he really works and the price point. You and I are true geeks, we would watch the video, read the manual and probably push this in ways they never thought of. My first thought was somebody from SSL sat down with the bigwigs at GC and other big MI dealers got a feature set brought it back to the same bigwigs and got a bunch of Wow awesome, but they never put the thing in front of the guys who have to sell it. This is where they messed up, this is a piece you almost have to sell in person because the learning curve is high. So high that the average GC dude won’t be able to wrap his head around this thing and the guy who can isn’t going to have the time to teach the client. I have seen this happen many times, I was honest with manufacturers when they built things like this sending some into rage others into tears only to have their reps explain “ he knows his customers, he’s the one who has to sell it and keep the client.” It kind of reminds me of all the cool little hidden features in the original Mackie 1604, nobody used them because you needed a course in Mackie to understand them and they were all there on the next version but implemented in a straight up way and everybody thought they were new features.
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 9:00:12 GMT -6
Post by donr on Mar 22, 2019 9:00:12 GMT -6
I was impressed when the guy in the video dialed in some eq and comp on the drum tracking, and put the summed mix through the bus compressor. Sounded good, and analog. Better than plug-ins, and right there on the desktop.
But the routing options are not at all intuitive. And how would you recall how you did stuff if you had to go back and change something? Still, lot of tools for the bucks. And it sounded good.
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ericn
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 9:07:46 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Mar 22, 2019 9:07:46 GMT -6
I was impressed when the guy in the video dialed in some eq and comp on the drum tracking, and put the summed mix through the bus compressor. Sounded good, and analog. Better than plug-ins, and right there on the desktop. But the routing options are not at all intuitive. And how would you recall how you did stuff if you had to go back and change something? Still, lot of tools for the bucks. And it sounded good. Yeah the EQ sounds good in the video but, 20 years ago I had printed tracks for demo that were EQ’d and had dynamics to take EQ really well in demos😎 just sayin !
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Post by BradM on Mar 22, 2019 10:29:57 GMT -6
I was impressed when the guy in the video dialed in some eq and comp on the drum tracking, and put the summed mix through the bus compressor. Sounded good, and analog. Better than plug-ins, and right there on the desktop. But the routing options are not at all intuitive. And how would you recall how you did stuff if you had to go back and change something? Still, lot of tools for the bucks. And it sounded good. I agree about the routing options. I took a look through the manual last night and honestly it made my head hurt. My D&R Vision console is way easier to understand. I feel like a pretty smart guy most days, but I feel like I would need to sit down with that manual, study it for a few hours, watch some tutorial videos, and draw out signal flow diagrams to ensure I understand it all. If that's what it takes for a guy that designs gear to fully understand how the device works then I can only imagine how their target market might struggle a bit. Then again maybe I'm just not smart enough to use this thing. Strictly speaking from the perspective of what might be the target market...it seems like if I owned a UAD Apollo and used the Apollo console software with UAD SSL emulations I'd get to a very similar place with a more intuitive user experience. Someone tell me I'm nuts. Brad
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 10:57:35 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 10:57:35 GMT -6
I was impressed when the guy in the video dialed in some eq and comp on the drum tracking, and put the summed mix through the bus compressor. Sounded good, and analog. Better than plug-ins, and right there on the desktop. But the routing options are not at all intuitive. And how would you recall how you did stuff if you had to go back and change something? Still, lot of tools for the bucks. And it sounded good. I agree about the routing options. I took a look through the manual last night and honestly it made my head hurt. My D&R Vision console is way easier to understand. I feel like a pretty smart guy most days, but I feel like I would need to sit down with that manual, study it for a few hours, watch some tutorial videos, and draw out signal flow diagrams to ensure I understand it all. If that's what it takes for a guy that designs gear to fully understand how the device works then I can only imagine how their target market might struggle a bit. Then again maybe I'm just not smart enough to use this thing. Strictly speaking from the perspective of what might be the target market...it seems like if I owned a UAD Apollo and used the Apollo console software with UAD SSL emulations I'd get to a very similar place with a more intuitive user experience. Someone tell me I'm nuts.
Brad You're nuts, but it has nothing to do with the mixer .! Ultimate issue is we're too spoilt nowadays with way too many decent options, so it has to make the upmost sense. I'm someone like SSL's target market, not a fan of DAW's and I'd rather use them as a digital recorder. It needs to be bigger, 18 channels, six pre's at least, a couple of aux busses with in's / out's and all the gubbins this already has.. Wrap it up for under $8K, with no competition I'd snap their hands off.
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Post by donr on Mar 22, 2019 11:15:14 GMT -6
If I had money to just burn, I'd get this just for the two mic pre's, the quick-and-dirty 4000 bus comp, and the feature nobody's talking about, the Phil Collins/Hugh Padgham SSL console talkback compressor!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 22, 2019 11:19:51 GMT -6
You guys are nuts if you don't think this is a good value at $1500.
2 channels of preamp with basic eq and compressor, plus the bus comp on the standard settings, plus latency free analog monitoring, 12 channels summing.
Building in the conversion would have been a bad move IMO. I used a Midas Venice F-32 for a handful of years. Then Firewire was about to die. There goes that board. Better sell before Firewire bites the dust. I'd much rather keep my analog gear analog and my digital gear digital.
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 11:44:09 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 11:44:09 GMT -6
You guys are nuts if you don't think this is a good value at $1500. Umm wut? An Apollo twin w/ UAD console is half the price, compact, has conversion, has a lot more in terms of features plugin variations, same noise specs (ACR). Let's not even mention for £100.00 more you could get a MH 2882 3D with DSP license which has 8 pre's. In terms of mixers there's a 22 channel USB audio interface + mixer from Soundcraft that's half the price, yeah it's probably not up to the same quality but that's good value. It's a good product IF you're sold on a track at once small mixer that requires the SSL kind of sound and name because it's pro yo.!
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 11:51:26 GMT -6
Post by jeromemason on Mar 22, 2019 11:51:26 GMT -6
This is what gets me...... The best thing the SSL 4000 buss comp had was it's auto release on the mixbuss. If that's truly meant to be a buss comp you just throw on, man why on earth would they not had put the auto release in there..... It basically stops the pumping but still let's it sound transparent like a quick release.... But, you know, when guys dial that sucker in and hit the hell out of it their mixes are going to be snappy and pumpy and when you're mixing that sounds good. Not so much when it's sent out to mastering and the put through radio processing. There is a song on Country Radio right now and whoever mixed it most definitely had their comp set to something similar to the Six' comp settings. It's just a really good song, good lyrics, but the mix sounds awful when it's put through all that processing. I guess I can't argue that if someone likes the super analog mic pre's, yes, absolutely this is a good deal. I know someone who uses the first rack channel strip they put out on their vocal chain and it does sound great.... So what do I freaking know.
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 11:51:41 GMT -6
Post by donr on Mar 22, 2019 11:51:41 GMT -6
Good points, Shadowamd. I guess I'm looking at the 6 from the perspective of already owning three MH interfaces and an Apollo Twin.
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 11:55:08 GMT -6
Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 22, 2019 11:55:08 GMT -6
There is a song on Country Radio right now and whoever mixed it most definitely had their comp set to something similar to the Six' comp settings. It's just a really good song, good lyrics, but the mix sounds awful when it's put through all that processing. I'm set this way 90% of the time. ...what song are you talking about?
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Post by notneeson on Mar 22, 2019 12:10:06 GMT -6
There is a song on Country Radio right now and whoever mixed it most definitely had their comp set to something similar to the Six' comp settings. It's just a really good song, good lyrics, but the mix sounds awful when it's put through all that processing. I'm set this way 90% of the time. ...what song are you talking about? On the 2 buss, same— but it's just for a little snap and glue, not what I'd call a lot of processing. I try Autorelease every now and again (on the Stam and a real X Logic that I frequent) but I always wind up backing off it.
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 12:17:21 GMT -6
Post by jeromemason on Mar 22, 2019 12:17:21 GMT -6
There is a song on Country Radio right now and whoever mixed it most definitely had their comp set to something similar to the Six' comp settings. It's just a really good song, good lyrics, but the mix sounds awful when it's put through all that processing. I'm set this way 90% of the time. ...what song are you talking about? Man, there is a 99% chance I know the person who mixed that song and for that reason I don't ever put out specifics. I'm sure there are some they themselves don't like that I do, everyone has a preference. It's just a song that you can hear incredibly distinctive pumping on. It's like when you watch the demo videos for gear and they crank them to pump like hell and then they start backing them down until it sounds nice and even.... well it's like someone didn't back it down, just left it there pumping. Major label, song's a big hit, so maybe they wanted it that way, I have no idea, I just don't like how it sounds.
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 12:37:29 GMT -6
Post by donr on Mar 22, 2019 12:37:29 GMT -6
Jerome, could you PM me and Jesse the tune so we can hear what you're talking about? Just so we don't make the same mistake? How much if any two bus processing do you recommend for a 2mix that's going to be professionally mastered and released?
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Post by BradM on Mar 22, 2019 12:44:32 GMT -6
You're nuts, but it has nothing to do with the mixer .! Ultimate issue is we're too spoilt nowadays with way too many decent options, so it has to make the upmost sense. I'm someone like SSL's target market, not a fan of DAW's and I'd rather use them as a digital recorder. It needs to be bigger, 18 channels, six pre's at least, a couple of aux busses with in's / out's and all the gubbins this already has.. Wrap it up for under $8K, with no competition I'd snap their hands off. Haha. I'd bet money that this is them testing the waters and that we will see a whole Mackie-style product line based off this design / format. Just wait. This is about capturing new markeshare and making $$$. I think it was a smart business move. Brad
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 12:52:44 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 12:52:44 GMT -6
You're nuts, but it has nothing to do with the mixer .! Ultimate issue is we're too spoilt nowadays with way too many decent options, so it has to make the upmost sense. I'm someone like SSL's target market, not a fan of DAW's and I'd rather use them as a digital recorder. It needs to be bigger, 18 channels, six pre's at least, a couple of aux busses with in's / out's and all the gubbins this already has.. Wrap it up for under $8K, with no competition I'd snap their hands off. Haha. I'd bet money that this is them testing the waters and that we will see a whole Mackie-style product line based off this design / format. Just wait. This is about capturing new markeshare and making $$$. I think it was a smart business move. Brad Makes sense, if this turns into a multi-product line (like the A&H stuff) things could turn out very interesting.
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ericn
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 13:08:02 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Mar 22, 2019 13:08:02 GMT -6
You're nuts, but it has nothing to do with the mixer .! Ultimate issue is we're too spoilt nowadays with way too many decent options, so it has to make the upmost sense. I'm someone like SSL's target market, not a fan of DAW's and I'd rather use them as a digital recorder. It needs to be bigger, 18 channels, six pre's at least, a couple of aux busses with in's / out's and all the gubbins this already has.. Wrap it up for under $8K, with no competition I'd snap their hands off. Haha. I'd bet money that this is them testing the waters and that we will see a whole Mackie-style product line based off this design / format. Just wait. This is about capturing new markeshare and making $$$. I think it was a smart business move. Brad Could be if it sells, The thing is will it sell at this price point? Maybe if they streeted at sub $1K, maybe. Also you have to remember the feature set here is almost exclusively aimed at recording, the small mixer market isn’t really music recording centered, its AV, live, post, lowend video and recording. This feature set layout, price isn’t going to crossover into these markets add in price and I just dont see it. I see the biggest dealers selling a pallet of Mackie 1202’s to everyone of these.
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SSL Six
Mar 22, 2019 13:35:21 GMT -6
Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 22, 2019 13:35:21 GMT -6
Have they done the China thing before or was the Fusion the first product they outsourced? Seems they've queued up a few things from a few brainstorming meetings regarding that new supplier. You do understand that I was indulging in a bit of, er, hyperbole there, it wasn't to be taken literally, right? Yeah, sure, but I was also wondering if there might be more products to come from SSL in this vein, similar to the A&H comparison that followed.
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Post by pope on Mar 22, 2019 14:50:10 GMT -6
Every bedroom hip-hop artist can afford 1.5k for an "ssl desk"!
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