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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 9:41:12 GMT -6
Post by Vincent R. on Mar 21, 2019 9:41:12 GMT -6
Ouch ! The thing looks like my little Behringer had a one night stand with an SSL and nine months later this came out. I just don’t get it, it looks like they tried to cram a lot into this thing to win the spec sheet wars, but left off what I would really use. I was hoping SSL’s new owners ( same company as Allen & Heath, Digico) would give us some cool products, I’m just not sure this is it. This is how I felt when I saw it, and I would love an affordable SSL console option for my studio.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 9:47:00 GMT -6
Well, For starters, I don't think anything in pro audio sells like hotcakes. I am not convinced this product will. Yeah price point is just to high, maybe if they had built in FW or USB at 1/2 the price and billed it as a complete SSL studio.. Control room section looked nice, maybe to much for this small a board? IMO they should charge more and do it properly, I've had several under $2K mixers for live recording and / or band practices which always get their asses handed to them by a mid ranged interface (in terms of quality). Remember the Neve Shelford thread I posted? Exactly.! With DSP virtual consoles becoming a thing the need for them is even less nowadays, actually now I've read the specs I'm struggling to see the point of it. Doesn't have enough I/O to record a band (or even a small ensemble), if you're looking for a small format "all-in-one" then it's lacking converters (you'd be better off with an Apollo Twin). SSL have been cheaping out but overpricing in recent memory, for a studio (buying new) you'd be looking at an API the box or Trident for it to be worth it over a decent £1200.00 / $1500.00 interface.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 21, 2019 10:09:41 GMT -6
spare bedroom studio owners will be like "Yeah, I got an SSL equipped studio, Yo, totes pro homies" " God you're so freaking spot on man..... Some of the adds I see out there right now and how they fluff up brands to clueless artist.... I can totally see that really tight shot picture of the screen of the MacBook with the tip of the six' logo by it and then a white cone woofer from a Yamaha HS50, and in a tydyed lit dark room. Caption "soundcloud files coming soon"
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 10:36:51 GMT -6
Post by Ward on Mar 21, 2019 10:36:51 GMT -6
spare bedroom studio owners will be like "Yeah, I got an SSL equipped studio, Yo, totes pro homies" " God you're so freaking spot on man..... Some of the adds I see out there right now and how they fluff up brands to clueless artist.... I can totally see that really tight shot picture of the screen of the MacBook with the tip of the six' logo by it and then a white cone woofer from a Yamaha HS50, and in a tydyed lit dark room. Caption "soundcloud files coming soon" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . yeah, and sometimes a bit too dark and cynical for Lord Johnkenn but that's ok, I love the way he keeps us all in-line.
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 12:16:35 GMT -6
via mobile
ericn likes this
Post by guitfiddler on Mar 21, 2019 12:16:35 GMT -6
God you're so freaking spot on man..... Some of the adds I see out there right now and how they fluff up brands to clueless artist.... I can totally see that really tight shot picture of the screen of the MacBook with the tip of the six' logo by it and then a white cone woofer from a Yamaha HS50, and in a tydyed lit dark room. Caption "soundcloud files coming soon" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . yeah, and sometimes a bit too dark and cynical for Lord Johnkenn but that's ok, I love the way he keeps us all in-line. Then a shot of CLA’s New Avantone’s CLA-10’s with a link to this video! Lol I just about fell off my chair laughing. Sorry, can’t help it. . However...I was interested in the iloud’s when they first hit the shelves, but now I’m more into the MTM’s. They should of had CLA working on the new 6 with his monitors though. Lol. Have the 6 sitting on top of his SSL and show how he can integrate it into his setup...lol. Because you know, CLA is over the top and he needs more gear, especially a 6!!! 👍🏻 I’m not hating on the guy...just having some fun.
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Post by iamasound on Mar 21, 2019 14:03:59 GMT -6
Is it really an SSL preamp or not if it is called a SuperAnalogue and has no relation to the origibal, a true SSL compressor with a different chip or an SSL eq with just two bands, and if it's made in China instead of Oxfordshire is it playing on lineage and not on substance?
If Ferrari was bought by Yugo and sold a red car for $38,000 people could say they own a Ferrari.
I feel like a grumpy old man.
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Post by Ward on Mar 21, 2019 15:18:17 GMT -6
Yeah, I hear you guitfiddler. CLA really makes me laugh. I find him hilarious . . . there's definitely got to be spme intentional humor here. A bit of "I realize it sounds as though i'm selling you a used car but fuckit gotta pay the bills!" LOL
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Post by wiz on Mar 21, 2019 15:22:40 GMT -6
Why not put a sweepable mid in each channel?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 15:23:57 GMT -6
Why not put a sweepable mid in each channel? Because that would make sense.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 21, 2019 15:48:36 GMT -6
Why not put a sweepable mid in each channel? $$$
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 21, 2019 16:12:13 GMT -6
Why not put a sweepable mid in each channel? Not enough space on the main board probably...... all those crazy input points and routing matrixes just to get the thing to sum 12 channels seems like a nightmare. And I know when I worked on my SSL I usually grabbed the hi shelf and the low shelf (assuming it's got the filters in it) for almost everything. The SSL 4000's and 6000's would do amazing things to snares and guitars but I only every remember juicing the top and bottom and using the filters to make a bell filter. I used the mid a lot on the hi hats and toms though. All that thing is, is a way that people can actually say they are using an SSL mixing "desk" And you watch too man, all the cats that buy those suckers will put on their sales pitches that they mix through an SSL. SSL knows that and this thing was rolled out. What pains me is I know guys in town who are on some of the biggest cuts on radio and they are totally ITB. I was just on an LP with one of them and he and I were talking about some things and I was blown away that yet another big timer was doing it all with a mouse and mostly the plugins that come with ProTools. "Yeah did you get the note about the delay she wants, I can send you the Soundtoys presets she loved 'yeah man, I don't have that, I just use the one that comes with PT." I will say this though, when the girl sent me the LP from mastering, when I listened to his against mine I no doubt heard a massive lack of depth and width, so that's some proof you've gotta get it outside the box and through some flux if you want it to have all that. Which I do, and because I like the way it sounds, I like my mixes to have a sound, but, you don't gotta have this little box from SSL to make it in this business that's for sure.
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Post by christopher on Mar 21, 2019 17:05:08 GMT -6
Could be neat, but they really blew it on the no mids thing. Could have been useful as a simple live mixer for solo gigs, just this in the backpack and a couple monitors. Without mids you'll still need to haul something else along, which makes the small form useless.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 17:56:35 GMT -6
Why not put a sweepable mid in each channel? What pains me is I know guys in town who are on some of the biggest cuts on radio and they are totally ITB. I will say this though, when the girl sent me the LP from mastering, when I listened to his against mine I no doubt heard a massive lack of depth and width, so that's some proof you've gotta get it outside the box and through some flux if you want it to have all that. Which I do, and because I like the way it sounds, I like my mixes to have a sound, but, you don't gotta have this little box from SSL to make it in this business that's for sure. We have come a long way, what's impressive in these new mid - high end interfaces are the analogue front ends managing to keep up with converters. 130+dB of dynamic range with THD+N's lower than one could imagine in the past end to end is an impressive feat of engineering, plus the advances in time domain jitter reduction (yes it's all intermingled but impressive nevertheless). Here's the thing, companies throw money at what sells. Audio interfaces are a popular purchase item fully and exhaustively improved by other markets (like mobile phones, laptops etc.), throwing hundreds of millions into R&D isn't a massive concern in the greater picture. Can the same be said for a mixing desk? The short answer is no. There's a long answer but it's a somewhat dry read..! As for depth and width, if you've ever recorded an orchestra through a decent interface for me at least there's no lack of anything. It sounds absolutely incredible.! When one's lacking bleed between real instruments in a decent room with a medium that adds nothing and takes nothing away you can tend to have a rather large hole. So, we to try and patch it with distortion (or colour as some describe it)..
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Post by christopher on Mar 21, 2019 18:09:56 GMT -6
The thing I like about analog gear is that two channels are kind of like identical twins. The 2 channels may be the same in every way, but there are small differences at different voltages and frequencies. A perfectly level matched mono signal won't be perfectly mono in analog, ...well at least if measuring at an extra micro-scale. It is still going to dance a little between left and right, depending on frequency and level. The harder you hit the buss, the more non-linear each channel is going to become, in its own way, and dance around in stereo, yet still be straight up mono. So I like more of this action myself, transformers, unlinked compressors or limiters, or whatever. Just saying, I'm not sure if this thing will do it? It would be cool if it did for this price, though I doubt it, probably too clean. Maybe the compressors can make it happen?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 18:27:18 GMT -6
The thing I like about analog gear is that two channels are kind of like identical twins. The 2 channels may be the same in every way, but there are small differences at different voltages and frequencies. A perfectly level matched mono signal won't be perfectly mono in analog, ...well at least if measuring at an extra micro-scale. It is still going to dance a little between left and right, depending on frequency and level. The harder you hit the buss, the more non-linear each channel is going to become, in its own way, and dance around in stereo, yet still be straight up mono. So I like more of this action myself, transformers, unlinked compressors or limiters, or whatever. Just saying, I'm not sure if this thing will do it? It would be cool if it did for this price, though I doubt it, probably too clean. Maybe the compressors can make it happen? Aye, I also really like the phase relationship between pan pots which gives a "wider" sorta sound. I really do like analog, it's just a shame great analog is so expensive ..
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 19:03:50 GMT -6
Post by jeromemason on Mar 21, 2019 19:03:50 GMT -6
We have come a long way, what's impressive in these new mid - high end interfaces are the analogue front ends managing to keep up with converters. 130+dB of dynamic range with THD+N's lower than one could imagine in the past end to end is an impressive feat of engineering, plus the advances in time domain jitter reduction (yes it's all intermingled but impressive nevertheless). Here's the thing, companies throw money at what sells. Audio interfaces are a popular purchase item fully and exhaustively improved by other markets (like mobile phones, laptops etc.), throwing hundreds of millions into R&D isn't a massive concern in the greater picture. Can the same be said for a mixing desk? The short answer is no. There's a long answer but it's a somewhat dry read..! As for depth and width, if you've ever recorded an orchestra through a decent interface for me at least there's no lack of anything. It sounds absolutely incredible.! When one's lacking bleed between real instruments in a decent room with a medium that adds nothing and takes nothing away you can tend to have a rather large hole. So, we to try and patch it with distortion (or colour as some describe it).. Now I will say that I mixed a single about 3 weeks ago that was cut with all burl and shit....... I could had mixed that ITB no problem, it had the depth built right in. Now, that's from just throwing up the faders and listening with no processing. The thing I noticed was that as I started to do my work, using plugs on all the supporting instruments and EFX only saving the little outboard I have for Vox and Bass was that it started to pull back up again and it still needed my mixbuss to get it there. But, it was I'd say about 30% faster for me to mix. Plus they used really amazing preamps and mics. I like Burl for tracking, but when it comes to their D/A I just don't get why guys are into it. It colors the sound.... one of the worst sounding mixes I did was using one when I tried it out. I couldn't stand it. But, man their converters for tracking absolutely kick ass, if I was going to build a recording room I'd just fit it with all of those and not even worry with any outboard comps and eq's.
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 19:43:58 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 19:43:58 GMT -6
We have come a long way, what's impressive in these new mid - high end interfaces are the analogue front ends managing to keep up with converters. 130+dB of dynamic range with THD+N's lower than one could imagine in the past end to end is an impressive feat of engineering, plus the advances in time domain jitter reduction (yes it's all intermingled but impressive nevertheless). Here's the thing, companies throw money at what sells. Audio interfaces are a popular purchase item fully and exhaustively improved by other markets (like mobile phones, laptops etc.), throwing hundreds of millions into R&D isn't a massive concern in the greater picture. Can the same be said for a mixing desk? The short answer is no. There's a long answer but it's a somewhat dry read..! As for depth and width, if you've ever recorded an orchestra through a decent interface for me at least there's no lack of anything. It sounds absolutely incredible.! When one's lacking bleed between real instruments in a decent room with a medium that adds nothing and takes nothing away you can tend to have a rather large hole. So, we to try and patch it with distortion (or colour as some describe it).. Now I will say that I mixed a single about 3 weeks ago that was cut with all burl and shit....... I could had mixed that ITB no problem, it had the depth built right in. Now, that's from just throwing up the faders and listening with no processing. The thing I noticed was that as I started to do my work, using plugs on all the supporting instruments and EFX only saving the little outboard I have for Vox and Bass was that it started to pull back up again and it still needed my mixbuss to get it there. But, it was I'd say about 30% faster for me to mix. Plus they used really amazing preamps and mics. I like Burl for tracking, but when it comes to their D/A I just don't get why guys are into it. It colors the sound.... one of the worst sounding mixes I did was using one when I tried it out. I couldn't stand it. But, man their converters for tracking absolutely kick ass, if I was going to build a recording room I'd just fit it with all of those and not even worry with any outboard comps and eq's. By the way apologies to anyone if I'm de-railing, I don't get to talk shop much. After decades of technical engineering most engineers I've come across become rather disinterested / indifferent. So if I come across a bit "preachy" at times it's because I still love what I do (well, most of the time).! On a D/A it's a little confusing because err, how many people have Burl DA's? I can understand recording distortion to play back on X medium but adding it so only the mixer (or a select) few can appreciate it? I've somewhat changed my mind over the years, a while back ago I was all LA-2A that / 610B this / must have a desk / U47's etc. in short anything that added a nice bit of fuzz or "warmth" to the equation. Nowadays I'm a fan of trying to coax out the natural timbre, so I'll try to EQ with mic's and placement, use cleaner mics (even some tube mic's can be pretty clean). If something doesn't sound warm or "large" enough, I take advantage of proximity and use specific mics that leverage that (that's why I bang on about "Hi-Fi" mic's. I know one's supposed to do that anyway but it's a little different ITB. Of course I still use a front end and I track through pre's and comps that have a "signature", although like you I try to do as little as possible when mixing. I've kinda fallen outta love with distortion for the most part, digital can have inherent sonic qualities to it (clean / powerful / engrossing).. Shame it took me so long (in a practical recording sense not programming / designing) to figure it out.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 21, 2019 22:03:25 GMT -6
Let’s say you were in the market for: - a very good small mixer - 2 very good pres - 2 channels of very good eq - filters - even a g comp emulation How is this not well featured and priced? It has features similar to a $75 Behringer and is priced way too high.
Well, maybe I exaggerate a little, but not much - the Behringer doesn't have a compressor or 100 mm faders.
In my view, a 2 channel mixer isn't really a mixer, and this is a two channel mixer. It would be a 4 channel mixer if it had mic pres on all 4 channels but it doesn't. And I'm sorry, a "stereo channel" is ONE channel, not two. Except that on this mixer they're not even real channels (no EQ), they're FX returns.
If this was $500 it might be worth it to some bedroom recordist who wants a centerpiece that says "SSL" on it.
It's a toy to part well off amateurs from their extra cash. You couldn't even track or mix a drum kit with it.
EDIT: What's the main point of mixing on an SSL console?
Right, it's AUTOMATION.
Is there any automation here?
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 22:06:24 GMT -6
Post by johneppstein on Mar 21, 2019 22:06:24 GMT -6
The demo video shows what it can do. Very nice for a home setup and an intro to the hybrid world for many. I would say they have an API Box level one in the works too. EDIT: Shall we coin the term “pocket console”? :-) Not a console. I've seen motorcycles with better featured consoles.
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 22:49:24 GMT -6
Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 21, 2019 22:49:24 GMT -6
"one of the worst sounding mixes I did was using one when I tried it out. I couldn't stand it." Surprising statement for sure. Just asking: using a B80 with BAD8's? What was the genre?
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 22:54:20 GMT -6
Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 21, 2019 22:54:20 GMT -6
It has features similar to a $75 Behringer and is priced way too high
Have they done the China thing before or was the Fusion the first product they outsourced? Seems they've queued up a few things from a few brainstorming meetings regarding that new supplier.
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Post by donr on Mar 21, 2019 23:04:51 GMT -6
After reading the thread, I took a look at this vid. More features and much more thought out by SSL than my first impression. I'd never know how to use this mixer without a tutorial.
Lots more than an SSL Behringer.
Tracking with 2 mic channels of "full" (well, optimized for real use) SSL eq and comp, and one more of "talkback" pro-equivalent mic pre AND "Phil Collins' talkback comp" if desired. The shelf/bell makes the two band eq much more useful, different freqs and sound.
Lots of mixdown analog summing, 12 line level tracks off the DAW in all, into an "optimized" (based on the tried and true settings) SSL bus comp.
What it'll do is give the bedroom studio person encouragement to EQ and Comp going into DAW. Then give everybody a multitrack analog summing option (assuming you can break out your DAW tracks to analog) into an industry standard 2-bus comp with an insert for more processing back to the DAW. Not so shabby, and worth the price, I think.
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 23:09:46 GMT -6
Post by jeromemason on Mar 21, 2019 23:09:46 GMT -6
"one of the worst sounding mixes I did was using one when I tried it out. I couldn't stand it." Surprising statement for sure. Just asking: using a B80 with BAD8's? What was the genre? I have no idea what they used to track but I'm guessing that it? I was referring to the B2 Bomber(?) D/A from Burl that's meant as your main DAC. For me, I couldn't mix on it because it colored the sound and screwed with the transients. Sounded good in the room, horrible in the car and anywhere else it was played.
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 23:17:10 GMT -6
Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 21, 2019 23:17:10 GMT -6
"one of the worst sounding mixes I did was using one when I tried it out. I couldn't stand it." Surprising statement for sure. Just asking: using a B80 with BAD8's? What was the genre? I have no idea what they used to track but I'm guessing that it? I was referring to the B2 Bomber(?) D/A from Burl that's meant as your main DAC. For me, I couldn't mix on it because it colored the sound and screwed with the transients. Sounded good in the room, horrible in the car and anywhere else it was played. Cool, thanks for clarifying!
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SSL Six
Mar 21, 2019 23:29:57 GMT -6
Post by donr on Mar 21, 2019 23:29:57 GMT -6
"one of the worst sounding mixes I did was using one when I tried it out. I couldn't stand it." Surprising statement for sure. Just asking: using a B80 with BAD8's? What was the genre? I have no idea what they used to track but I'm guessing that it? I was referring to the B2 Bomber(?) D/A from Burl that's meant as your main DAC. For me, I couldn't mix on it because it colored the sound and screwed with the transients. Sounded good in the room, horrible in the car and anywhere else it was played. You wonder why people selling vibe on the creation side would want to mess with the playback side. The place for Burl DA vibe would be on the listener side, no?
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