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Post by swurveman on Mar 17, 2019 10:26:58 GMT -6
I read this article after reading a big thread at the Purple Place about new Mac problems . Apparently, "an increasing number of users are reporting issues when trying to record audio via certain audio interfaces on Apple computers that use the T2 secure chip. Macs that use Apple's T2 chip are the Touch Bar MacBook Pros, iMac Pro and 2018 models of the Mac mini, MacBook Air. Manufacturers including Apogee, Focusrite, Native Instruments, Yamaha, RME and MOTU are affected." Anybody have this issue?
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Post by ragan on Mar 17, 2019 11:02:17 GMT -6
I've seen chatter about this too and have been eyeing that Mini. I'd love to get the scoop too.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 17, 2019 11:14:19 GMT -6
I really, really don’t want to have to get a Windows computer.
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Post by swurveman on Mar 17, 2019 11:28:57 GMT -6
Update: Apparently it's only an audio problem for people using USB connections. However, not sure if the USB issue effects external USB 3 drives and other USB related devices.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 11:48:01 GMT -6
I have a 2018 hexacore MBP, no issues with the Apollo TB3 and I've had zero issues with playback / audio from core audio. If I run @ 64 / 96KHZ with Kontakt I can hit walls quickly, it's odd because I can run a full session (including mastering plugs) at the same settings and doesn't seem to care. Kontakt though? I can hit pop / crackle city without much effort.!
What did annoy me a little bit as well, the internal soundcard in the MBP sounded near enough on par with my MOTU 1248. Honestly, not just saying that (they really are that good) especially when you compare it to the utter crap they put in the Iphone.!
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Post by jampa on Mar 17, 2019 15:14:18 GMT -6
I'm running a USB DAC on my Mac Mini 2018
However, it utilises the Core Audio drivers and not third-party drivers - which I believe is critical
None of my music producer recordings are ruined
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Post by swurveman on Mar 17, 2019 16:22:02 GMT -6
I'm running a USB DAC on my Mac Mini 2018 However, it utilises the Core Audio drivers and not third-party drivers - which I believe is critical None of my music producer recordings are ruined Interesting. Are you using a USB connection? Thunderbolt is not having a problem. Here's a video from the guy who first brought the issue to light explaining the problem. At 6:07 he shows it happening within the Core Audio framework and at 6:19 says it's a Core Audio event, specifically a Core Audio buffer Overload. He's using a MacBook Pro running Logic. If you are using a USB connection, apparently you can get around the problem some with disabling the battery driver and turning off Spotlight and iCloud. He talks about it in the video.
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Post by jampa on Mar 17, 2019 18:01:54 GMT -6
Yes, I'm using the USB 3 ports on the Mac Mini
While I'm here, I also installed 32 GB of RAM myself (carefully), saving a lot of money
I should emphasise that I am not recording with this machine. Currently I would not due to the stability problems mentioned above
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Post by cyrano on Mar 18, 2019 12:34:25 GMT -6
The problem isn't the T2 an sich. It's the USB bridge chip that connects the T2 to the outside world, via the usual USB bus. When a program needs authentication, that USB bridge disrupts the USB bus for a few millisecs. Too much for audio streams (or video).
In the latest Mojave beta, Apple might be fixing this, so hold your horses, and your wallets.
The reason that it doesn't affect all users, is the cloud. Even the daftest cloud aware thing on your Mac might decide seemingly on it's own to talk to the cloud. And if it needs authentication (which it usually does), it'll ask the T2 for verification. Something an average user won't notice. But it's enough to disrupt the audio stream.
And I can hear some of you think "I'll disable all networking"...
Nope. Most of this cloud related traffic gets cached on your Mac to resume transport when the network returns.
Disabling can be done, via the Terminal, but it gets re-enabled after restart. And since it's not one daemon misbehaving, there isn't one solution for all. Sometimes it's the battery daemon, sometimes it's network time, sometimes...
So be patient, it just might be fixed in a couple of weeks. Besides, a remarkably similar problem seems to plague a small minority of Windows 10 users.
Makes me want to go back to Snow Leopard...
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Post by svart on Mar 18, 2019 12:43:33 GMT -6
I really, really don’t want to have to get a Windows computer.
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 19, 2019 2:34:37 GMT -6
Makes me want to go back to Snow Leopard... I really miss Panther sometimes. No joke. It was always so stable for me.
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Post by Ward on Mar 19, 2019 11:08:54 GMT -6
Makes me want to go back to Snow Leopard... You are not alone. Everything worked perfectly on that OS, except for the iOS integraton, which I can leave along for work since I NEVER connect mac Pro towers to the interwebs You know, Mountain Lion is pretty damned good too.
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Post by cyrano on Mar 19, 2019 15:49:40 GMT -6
It looks good:
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Post by reddirt on Mar 19, 2019 16:44:31 GMT -6
Yeah Snow Leopard PT 10 on a 2010 17" MBP here. Keep thinking I will be forced to move someday... Cheers
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 19, 2019 16:56:43 GMT -6
I gather here's no issue with Thunderbolt 3 or firewire? I have an Apollo X6 which is TB3, use Logic, but my old drives are firewire. I use them as backup storage for albums I've recorded.
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Post by popmann on Mar 19, 2019 17:21:39 GMT -6
Apple removed firewire from coreaudio years ago.
Drives arent an issue, becuase this is about real time performance, not reading a file into a buffer at the app’s leisure.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 17:46:48 GMT -6
I gather here's no issue with Thunderbolt 3 or firewire? I have an Apollo X6 which is TB3, use Logic, but my old drives are firewire. I use them as backup storage for albums I've recorded. Again, 2018 MBP / TB3 / Apollo X6 and no issues. It would of sucked if I'd of dumped my MOTU due to dropouts just to get a MAC / Apollo where the same happens.
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Post by cyrano on Mar 20, 2019 8:39:36 GMT -6
Apple removed firewire from coreaudio years ago. Drives arent an issue, becuase this is about real time performance, not reading a file into a buffer at the app’s leisure. No, they didn't. Even iSCSI is still part of the FW stack, as you can use it over ethernet. There are only a few audio interfaces that use the FW audio driver, or the video driver, but these still work. And USB audio compliant drivers are still present too. An IO26 from Alesis still is plug and play, even on Mojave. You'll have to disable SIP, of course (and you can re-enable it once initialised), but it works. You shouldn't believe the net. Hundreds of audio interfaces (and other hardware) went to the landfill because people weren't able to get them running immediately. And for some of the difficult cases, like the Sound Devices USB preamp, you can get a 3rd party driver from Ploytec.
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Post by cyrano on Mar 20, 2019 8:42:09 GMT -6
I gather here's no issue with Thunderbolt 3 or firewire? I have an Apollo X6 which is TB3, use Logic, but my old drives are firewire. I use them as backup storage for albums I've recorded. It's just audio interfaces over USB. No FW, no harddisks...
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Post by pouletdegrains on Mar 20, 2019 10:38:35 GMT -6
On the positive side, Apple may have improved the management of audio flux with Mojave. I haven't found official communication from them on the matter, but B.J. Buchalter of Metric Halo made this claim on the purple website:
"FYI, a big chunk of the CPU load in the driver is not in code we have control over -- it is in the OS. One way to drop the CPU load is to upgrade to Mojave, as Apple appears to have optimized that code path and the CPU load is definitely lower on Mojave."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 13:50:00 GMT -6
Apple removed firewire from coreaudio years ago. Drives arent an issue, becuase this is about real time performance, not reading a file into a buffer at the app’s leisure. No, they didn't. Even iSCSI is still part of the FW stack, as you can use it over ethernet. There are only a few audio interfaces that use the FW audio driver, or the video driver, but these still work. And USB audio compliant drivers are still present too. An IO26 from Alesis still is plug and play, even on Mojave. You'll have to disable SIP, of course (and you can re-enable it once initialised), but it works. You shouldn't believe the net. Hundreds of audio interfaces (and other hardware) went to the landfill because people weren't able to get them running immediately. And for some of the difficult cases, like the Sound Devices USB preamp, you can get a 3rd party driver from Ploytec. Yup, plus you can run FW over thunderbolt. I have an old UA Quad Sat FW working on my MBP.!
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Post by donr on Mar 20, 2019 14:16:13 GMT -6
As a long time Apple user, Mac OS 6 was rock solid.
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Post by popmann on Mar 20, 2019 17:06:59 GMT -6
Never saw a crash until OS 8.5 or 9. 6 was on my toaster in college....7 on my pizza box running Performer for most of the 90s.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 21, 2019 2:45:28 GMT -6
Some interesting stuff from ua forum posts:
o T2 Chip in the new iMacs!, hopefully the same for Mac Pro 2019 So the new iMac was released yesterday, and it doesn't have the T2 chip that seems to be causing problems. Does this mean that the new Mac Pro will come without the T2 Chip? I know people who have avoided the Mac Mini because of this!
LixiSoft said: 1 Day Ago I have also read that the latest beta build 10.14.5 also solves the USB audio interface
Kero said: 23 Hours Ago I have also read that the latest beta build 10.14.5 also solves the USB audio interface issues. oh really? the news keeps on getting better! Fred Bit said: 1 Hour Ago There are rumours that the new iMac‘s don‘t have the T2 chip because it can not work with spinning hard drives. The other products allready using the T2 chip don‘t have spinning hard drives. Therefore I don‘ t expect the forthcoming mac pro to be released with a fusion drive but with the T2 chip.
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Post by cyrano on Mar 21, 2019 17:57:07 GMT -6
The new iMacs are just a minor upgrade. Apparently, Apple can't spare a couple of engineers to design a new Mac atm.
Makes you wonder what they are designing. Surely, there's no shortage of Engineers at the mothership...
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