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Post by damoongo on Mar 17, 2019 22:53:16 GMT -6
Dr Bill. When you say “REAL CLOSE on a martin.” How close? And where?
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Post by drbill on Mar 17, 2019 23:01:32 GMT -6
Dr Bill. When you say “REAL CLOSE on a martin.” How close? And where? That reply was specifically in reference to a KM53 which is of course an Omni. I generally go off the 12th fret, but depending on string noise, it might be too noisy there. They are VERY articulate and detailed mics. I've also gone around the sound hole, or lower on the body of the guitar. You have to experiment a bit more with an Omni because it depends on the "reach" of the mic, and the actual polar pattern of the capsule. My 53's will let me jam them right up close and personal. Way closer and less boomy than a typical cardiod mic. But unfortunately, they are often too detailed and articulate for me in some positions. You gotta play with em. As for closeness - I've been up 2-3 inches off a instrument (generally Martin 000-18's or D28's) without adverse proximity effect.
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Post by damoongo on Mar 17, 2019 23:22:01 GMT -6
Ok. Thanks. I’ve got a km56 that I do that with (in omni). I don’t know that I’ve ever gone that close though. Will give it a try!
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Post by EmRR on Mar 18, 2019 8:14:15 GMT -6
Ok. Thanks. I’ve got a km56 that I do that with (in omni). I don’t know that I’ve ever gone that close though. Will give it a try! Won’t work with a km56, it’s not a pressure omni, but derived from two cardioid capsules.
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Post by damoongo on Mar 18, 2019 9:38:27 GMT -6
Ok. Thanks. I’ve got a km56 that I do that with (in omni). I don’t know that I’ve ever gone that close though. Will give it a try! Won’t work with a km56, it’s not a pressure omni, but derived from two cardioid capsules. Good point!
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Post by drbill on Mar 18, 2019 10:38:15 GMT -6
Ok. Thanks. I’ve got a km56 that I do that with (in omni). I don’t know that I’ve ever gone that close though. Will give it a try! Won’t work with a km56, it’s not a pressure omni, but derived from two cardioid capsules. That's kind of what I was thinking....
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Post by damoongo on Mar 18, 2019 10:53:07 GMT -6
Do you know how the omni is derived in Schoeps m221b's with m934 capsule (card/omni)? I remember it being an "acoustic", rather than "electronic" means of deriving the patters...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 0:51:34 GMT -6
Ok. Thanks. I’ve got a km56 that I do that with (in omni). I don’t know that I’ve ever gone that close though. Will give it a try! Won’t work with a km56, it’s not a pressure omni, but derived from two cardioid capsules. Would it work with a KM83/KK83 capsule? Is that the kind of Omni where you can get up really close with no proximity? Tempted to buy a couple of KK83s for my KM84 bodies.
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Post by jampa on Mar 19, 2019 2:43:41 GMT -6
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 19, 2019 2:57:45 GMT -6
All of the talk on this thread has been *great,* so thanks to everyone for their wonderful contributions. Perhaps because these contributions have trended in two main directions (1. specific instrument, and 2. micing technique), I’m going to put another idea in play: the guitar player. I would rather have a great player on a subpar instrument than a subpar player on a great instrument. Have any of you experienced a recording situation where you thought, “man, that guitar sounds like *shit,*” only to have a different player pick it up and it suddenly sounds great? I know I’ve had that experience before. I even mean with the specific problem in mind: boominess. A great player can offer some measure of control over an instrument’s less pleasing qualities. Of course, most of us are wearing our engineer’s hats when we’re on this board, and in those cases, the player is the one thing we are powerless to change. mrholmes, this is in *no way* meant as a dig towards your musicianship. I hope it doesn’t come across that way. I’m thinking in part of recordings of myself using the same gear (or close enough) from years back where the most substantive change over the intervening time has been in my own musicianship.
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Post by hio on Mar 19, 2019 3:31:44 GMT -6
I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread but I usually record my acoustics DI as well if you have one and a good pickup. My Fishman's sound great and can sit very well in a mix.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 3:32:01 GMT -6
Interesting, but if you put a KK83 capsule on a KM84 body, you still have the vents, so then it's not sealed? I need to find a pic of an original KM83 to see if they were vented... OK just checked, original KM83s were vented too (must be, same body/amp as KM84), so I am no clearer...
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Post by Guitar on Mar 19, 2019 8:45:18 GMT -6
All of the talk on this thread has been *great,* so thanks to everyone for their wonderful contributions. Perhaps because these contributions have trended in two main directions (1. specific instrument, and 2. micing technique), I’m going to put another idea in play: the guitar player. I would rather have a great player on a subpar instrument than a subpar player on a great instrument. Have any of you experienced a recording situation where you thought, “man, that guitar sounds like *shit,*” only to have a different player pick it up and it suddenly sounds great? I know I’ve had that experience before. I even mean with the specific problem in mind: boominess. A great player can offer some measure of control over an instrument’s less pleasing qualities. Of course, most of us are wearing our engineer’s hats when we’re on this board, and in those cases, the player is the one thing we are powerless to change. mrholmes , this is in *no way* meant as a dig towards your musicianship. I hope it doesn’t come across that way. I’m thinking in part of recordings of myself using the same gear (or close enough) from years back where the most substantive change over the intervening time has been in my own musicianship. I have a couple of "amateur guitar players" related to me, so I know the cringe very well. It's physically debilitating to listen to them hack away at a perfectly good acoustic guitar. Sometimes I have to leave the room.
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Post by Ward on Mar 19, 2019 9:11:24 GMT -6
I have a couple of "amateur guitar players" related to me, so I know the cringe very well. It's physically debilitating to listen to them hack away at a perfectly good acoustic guitar. Sometimes I have to leave the room. Suddenly, I had a flash of letting my 8 year old drive the truck to school. Same feeling, I'm thinking.
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Post by svart on Mar 19, 2019 9:25:41 GMT -6
All of the talk on this thread has been *great,* so thanks to everyone for their wonderful contributions. Perhaps because these contributions have trended in two main directions (1. specific instrument, and 2. micing technique), I’m going to put another idea in play: the guitar player. I would rather have a great player on a subpar instrument than a subpar player on a great instrument. Have any of you experienced a recording situation where you thought, “man, that guitar sounds like *shit,*” only to have a different player pick it up and it suddenly sounds great? I know I’ve had that experience before. I even mean with the specific problem in mind: boominess. A great player can offer some measure of control over an instrument’s less pleasing qualities. Of course, most of us are wearing our engineer’s hats when we’re on this board, and in those cases, the player is the one thing we are powerless to change. mrholmes , this is in *no way* meant as a dig towards your musicianship. I hope it doesn’t come across that way. I’m thinking in part of recordings of myself using the same gear (or close enough) from years back where the most substantive change over the intervening time has been in my own musicianship. Not necessarily someone who could or couldn't make a guitar sound "good" but a guy came in with a vintage Gibson, and I do mean capital V vintage, like from the 1950's. Alone that guitar sounded lifeless, dark and dead like it also had the original strings on it.. But combined with the guy singing, it just worked in the mix. The guitar got out of the way of his voice in just the right places and existed in the spaces around his vocals without even doing much mixing. It sounded like different guitar when the guy was singing, it was crazy.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 19, 2019 9:27:57 GMT -6
Interesting, but if you put a KK83 capsule on a KM84 body, you still have the vents, so then it's not sealed? I need to find a pic of an original KM83 to see if they were vented... OK just checked, original KM83s were vented too (must be, same body/amp as KM84), so I am no clearer... The vents are part of the preamp, not the capsule. Manual lists it as pressure type.
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Post by matt on Mar 19, 2019 10:28:40 GMT -6
One of the most amazing sounds for me is the KM53 (Omni) up close I lust after a pristine example of a KM53. Lust! I desire one. Or two. I lust for the 53's sisters too, the 54 and the multi-pattern 56. Particularly the 56. But all I have is this picture, courtesy of Neumann: KM 53
Such a beautiful thing. To be able to close mic with no proximity effect. But, back to reality: as many do, I use a Beyer MC930 at 8-10 inches, pointed at the 14th fret (all of my acoustics are 14 fret to the body). Too thin, move toward the sound hole. Too fat, move toward the head stock. I wear my Sony 7520s during this process to really hear the low end and will often run a quick test recording to get an objective listen. I'd rather not have to EQ out low end boom, but I've done it many times if the performance is good (a rarity for me). I record nearly always in mono- my playing is not stereo-rated.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 21, 2019 16:30:45 GMT -6
All of the talk on this thread has been *great,* so thanks to everyone for their wonderful contributions. Perhaps because these contributions have trended in two main directions (1. specific instrument, and 2. micing technique), I’m going to put another idea in play: the guitar player. I would rather have a great player on a subpar instrument than a subpar player on a great instrument. Have any of you experienced a recording situation where you thought, “man, that guitar sounds like *shit,*” only to have a different player pick it up and it suddenly sounds great? I know I’ve had that experience before. I even mean with the specific problem in mind: boominess. A great player can offer some measure of control over an instrument’s less pleasing qualities. Of course, most of us are wearing our engineer’s hats when we’re on this board, and in those cases, the player is the one thing we are powerless to change. mrholmes , this is in *no way* meant as a dig towards your musicianship. I hope it doesn’t come across that way. I’m thinking in part of recordings of myself using the same gear (or close enough) from years back where the most substantive change over the intervening time has been in my own musicianship. All fine I am good but I am not a genius player. At least all great players which I know in person do have great instruments, some of them have thier signature Guitar by Martin - for example. To be honest I havent track AG in a long time @ home and I found out during this discussion that I dislike the room sound of my new room. It looks good when I measure the room but I was in my home space always hapier if I can record nearly bone dry and I use artificial reverb later. Exactly that gave me my old room concept. Than a friend talked me into to go with double the RT with the new room concept. It was the badest idea of all ideas. But no biggie a few hours work and I will bring it down. I still think tracking acoustics is difficult special if the room sound does not fit the instrument. Maybe its also my personalty very seldom I was happy with single guitar tracks.
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Post by Guitar on Mar 21, 2019 16:44:03 GMT -6
My main tracking room and control room (bedroom, LOL) is very dead and dry which is ideal. Drums are out in the big room which is not treated at all, it's a funny juxtaposition.
I found that all of the tracks, dead room and drum room, both benefit from artificial ambience.
My latest find is the Waves IR-1 convolution reverb. I designed a small room and a large room using various Waves studio impulses and my own custom settings. It makes a huge difference in the "realism" of my recent tracks, and saves me from spending $700 on Altiverb.
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