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Post by M57 on Mar 15, 2019 8:59:39 GMT -6
Normally I record alone, but recently I had a bass player in the studio. He's a good friend and the session went great, but I had troubles getting his mix right and he commented that he missed having a personal mixer, so I started doing some research ..for the next time I bring the occasional 'discerning' musician in the studio. I suppose I could create a buss and send out a mix and control it from the DAW, but of course the musician will then have no control and I'd have to set it up for every session. I have the MOTU 828es, which has an AVB ethernet connection so I assume I can just set it up so that it routes every channel through that directly to the personal mixer ..right? I don't think I'll need a hub because I just want one mixer. Here are the contestants so far.. - Presonus EarMix (16 Channels should be more than enough and this one is at the top of my list because it's feature packed and also the most affordable).
- Allen and Heath ME-500
- Aviom A320
The Hear Back OCTO mixer is cheaper but 8 channels is a too skimpy.
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Post by bigbone on Mar 15, 2019 10:06:50 GMT -6
but I had troubles getting his mix right and he commented that he missed having a personal mixer, My answer will be,and i'm not a example to follow. Next time i will get someone who isn't fussy about his mix...
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Post by svart on Mar 15, 2019 10:20:43 GMT -6
Normally I record alone, but recently I had a bass player in the studio. He's a good friend and the session went great, but I had troubles getting his mix right and he commented that he missed having a personal mixer, so I started doing some research ..for the next time I bring the occasional 'discerning' musician in the studio. I suppose I could create a buss and send out a mix and control it from the DAW, but of course the musician will then have no control and I'd have to set it up for every session. I have the MOTU 828es, which has an AVB ethernet connection so I assume I can just set it up so that it routes every channel through that directly to the personal mixer ..right? I don't think I'll need a hub because I just want one mixer. Here are the contestants so far.. - Presonus EarMix (16 Channels should be more than enough and this one is a the top of my list because it's feature packed and also the most affordable).
- Allen and Heath ME-500
- Aviom A320
The Hear Back OCTO mixer is cheaper but 8 channels is a too skimpy. I use behringer ada8000 converters to convert unused adat outputs to analog to feed behringer 8ch mixers I mounted to mic stands as headphone pods. Each musician can mix their own headphone mix, including EQ. I just create the guitar, bass, drums, vocals busses in the daw and feed them out via the assigned streams to the adat output.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 15, 2019 10:58:47 GMT -6
8 channels is plenty in my experience tracking bands, usually 6 people max. Stereo drum sub mix plus 6 discrete elements. The hearback is ok but the built in limiter is horrible and creates the ability for users to severely eff up the sound. I have fewer issues with the Furman system, but it’s discontinued, I think.
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Post by M57 on Mar 15, 2019 11:06:18 GMT -6
I use behringer ada8000 converters to convert unused adat outputs to analog to feed behringer 8ch mixers I mounted to mic stands as headphone pods. Each musician can mix their own headphone mix, including EQ. I just create the guitar, bass, drums, vocals busses in the daw and feed them out via the assigned streams to the adat output. Interesting that is converts optical in to analog outs. Nevertheless, that's a hell of a lot of XLR spaghetti to run to each headphone mixer ..unless I'm misunderstanding something and the Beringer 8ch mixers have optical inputs - in which case, why the need for the ada8000 in the first place?
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 15, 2019 11:08:11 GMT -6
I have the Hearback and have never felt limited. They don’t need EVERY single track. Just busses will do.
Had the Furman before. The Furman is a tank compared to the HB. But, I often found myself wishing for an extra channel or two.
Thought - can’t you set up the Motu so the artist can control what’s sent to HP1 via the iPad mixer or something like that?
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Post by svart on Mar 15, 2019 11:10:14 GMT -6
I use behringer ada8000 converters to convert unused adat outputs to analog to feed behringer 8ch mixers I mounted to mic stands as headphone pods. Each musician can mix their own headphone mix, including EQ. I just create the guitar, bass, drums, vocals busses in the daw and feed them out via the assigned streams to the adat output. Interesting that is converts optical in to analog outs. Nevertheless, that's a hell of a lot of XLR spaghetti to run to each headphone mixer ..unless I'm misunderstanding something and the Beringer 8ch mixers have optical inputs - in which case, why the need for the ada8000 in the first place? It's 8xlr to a single db25 which I use an old db25 parallel port splitter to break it out to 4 more db25 connectors which I can hook db25 to trs for each headphone pod. This makes it scalable and allows the pods to move around the room if needed. I should also say that I bought all this stuff used on ebay. Generally 40$ per mixer, 10$ per cable, the ADA8000's were around 75$ each.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 15, 2019 18:50:21 GMT -6
I use behringer ada8000 converters to convert unused adat outputs to analog to feed behringer 8ch mixers I mounted to mic stands as headphone pods. Each musician can mix their own headphone mix, including EQ. I just create the guitar, bass, drums, vocals busses in the daw and feed them out via the assigned streams to the adat output. Interesting that is converts optical in to analog outs. Nevertheless, that's a hell of a lot of XLR spaghetti to run to each headphone mixer ..unless I'm misunderstanding something and the Beringer 8ch mixers have optical inputs - in which case, why the need for the ada8000 in the first place? Snake cables? Heard of them? Buy used. Cost too much buying new.
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Post by M57 on Mar 15, 2019 19:35:42 GMT -6
Interesting that is converts optical in to analog outs. Nevertheless, that's a hell of a lot of XLR spaghetti to run to each headphone mixer ..unless I'm misunderstanding something and the Beringer 8ch mixers have optical inputs - in which case, why the need for the ada8000 in the first place? It's 8xlr to a single db25 which I use an old db25 parallel port splitter to break it out to 4 more db25 connectors which I can hook db25 to trs for each headphone pod. This makes it scalable and allows the pods to move around the room if needed. I should also say that I bought all this stuff used on ebay. Generally 40$ per mixer, 10$ per cable, the ADA8000's were around 75$ each. I'm not a huge fan of snakes, but only because I'm no good with a soldering iron. ADA8000 for $75 on Ebay? Wow, they're over $200 new! ..and what mixers for $40/ea? the cheapest d25 splitter I can find on ebay is $100 and most are way more. Add the cable, and I dunno ..brand new for $350 and a single ethernet cable is looking plug and play. Pay a little more and add EQ, limiting, etc. It's expensive to scale compared to your suggestion, but it's much cleaner and I don't think that I'll ever need to do add more units.
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Post by svart on Mar 15, 2019 20:34:59 GMT -6
It's 8xlr to a single db25 which I use an old db25 parallel port splitter to break it out to 4 more db25 connectors which I can hook db25 to trs for each headphone pod. This makes it scalable and allows the pods to move around the room if needed. I should also say that I bought all this stuff used on ebay. Generally 40$ per mixer, 10$ per cable, the ADA8000's were around 75$ each. I'm not a huge fan of snakes, but only because I'm no good with a soldering iron. ADA8000 for $75 on Ebay? Wow, they're over $200 new! ..and what mixers for $40/ea? the cheapest d25 splitter I can find on ebay is $100 and most are way more. Add the cable, and I dunno ..brand new for $350 and a single ethernet cable is looking plug and play. Pay a little more and add EQ, limiting, etc. It's expensive to scale compared to your suggestion, but it's much cleaner and I don't think that I'll ever need to do add more units. ADA8000: linkSplitter: link
Mixer: linkI think I did my whole setup for less than 300$ with 4 headphone pods. You'll see the converters go up and down in price. Keep looking and you'll find the cables cheap too. Looks like the A+H option is digital input only through DANTE or MADI. The Aviom needs a head unit as well. Looks like the Presonus is the only one with AVB that can be used direct.
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Post by keymod on Mar 16, 2019 4:00:26 GMT -6
The Behringer PM16 & related hardware is pretty decent, and cost effective.
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Post by javamad on Mar 16, 2019 5:43:47 GMT -6
I would reccomend you get a hub so its easy and cheap-ish to add that second mixer you will eventually need :-)
I use the adat out of my apollos to feed a Berhinger hub and powerplay mixer. All you need to run around the studio are some cat5 cables. Its 16 tracks so Iuse 8 for the live tracking and 8 for the playback.
I also have the mixers on simple mic stand posts with a hook taped on tohang the headphones.
All in all a very flexible setup and artists love it. I do have todo a quick 2-minute monitoring mixer tutorial at the start of sessions though because leaving the band to their own devices generally means someone gets the levels all messed up! Those two minutes are a good investment!
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Post by M57 on Mar 16, 2019 6:09:11 GMT -6
There's no need to get the hub unless/until I decide I want more, right? Also, it looks like the Powerplay mixers can be run in series?? So really, I could see having 2 or even 3 with no need for the hub until people start to trip on things. The price is right for the Behringer Powerplay, but I don't see anything about ABV compatibility.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 16, 2019 6:38:51 GMT -6
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Post by keymod on Mar 16, 2019 6:45:18 GMT -6
There's no need to get the hub unless/until I decide I want more, right? Also, it looks like the Powerplay mixers can be run in series?? So really, I could see having 2 or even 3 with no need for the hub until people start to trip on things. The price is right for the Behringer Powerplay, but I don't see anything about ABV compatibility. The input module (hub) converts your analog and/or ADAT signal so it can be transmitted to the pm16 via the cat5 wiring.
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Post by M57 on Mar 16, 2019 7:34:58 GMT -6
I'm not sure what that mixer is for. It looks like it might do the trick, but I'd need a dedicated tablet for controlling it remotely, plus I'd need some kind of headphone amplifier interface that converts the line level from whatever outputs I select. It doesn't look like I can send that mix to a specific headphone output (the 828es only has two headphone outputs). I've been having troubles just getting both headphone outputs and the monitor (speaker) outputs to be easily switchable.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 16, 2019 7:52:12 GMT -6
EmRR, do you use tablets for headphone mixes with your motu rig? jeromemason? I'm sure some motu guys here must be doing it.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 16, 2019 8:29:09 GMT -6
I don't even own a tablet! I still force people to use one mix as much as I can. Multiple mixes always introduces some other problem.
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Post by jcgriggs on Mar 16, 2019 9:08:11 GMT -6
There's no need to get the hub unless/until I decide I want more, right? Also, it looks like the Powerplay mixers can be run in series?? So really, I could see having 2 or even 3 with no need for the hub until people start to trip on things. The price is right for the Behringer Powerplay, but I don't see anything about ABV compatibility. The input module (hub) converts your analog and/or ADAT signal so it can be transmitted to the pm16 via the cat5 wiring. You need the input module and 1 mixer, minimum for a working Powerplay system. The input module supports up to 6 mixers directly. The input unit has wall power and accepts 16 analog inputs (balanced TRS) or 2 lightpipe inputs - I use lightpipe so I can't comment on the quality or latency of the built-in conversion. I haven't had anyone complain about headphone latency with my setup, but I'm not sure I work with folks who would be sensitive in that area.
The mixers can be powered over the ethernet connection and you can connect them in series, but this only powers the first mixer from the ethernet cable - subsequent mixer units must be powered with a wall wart that comes with the mixer units.
There is also a repeater hub that plugs directly into wall power takes one input and provides 8 additional outputs (with power for the mixers.) You don't need the hub, but it is inexpensive (it's the least spendy PP component) and it can be nice to run one ethernet cable to the hub and then cables to the mixers instead of cabling every mixer back to the input, depending on your setup.
A lot of the usefulness of the Behringer system comes down to how comfortable the musicians are with the mixer - some find it really counter-intuitive. The documentation that comes with the system is mostly useless, so if you have a lot of different people coming through your place, you may find yourself just setting up a mix + more me any way and not using the mixers so much. Otherwise, you'll be doing a LOT of 'splainin' or dealing with musicians working to sub-standard headphone mixes (to put it politely).
I have an ART headphone amp I use as a back up and on simple sessions or for overdubs, where there are few performers, I'll frequently use it over the Powerplay, both for simplicity of set up and more control over the headphone mix. But I do like the Powerplay on band sessions - I tend to record the same folks so now that we have some basic setups stored and folks know how to use the mixers, its much faster than me having to set up a mix for everyone.
My $0.02 (Canadian Tire) John
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Post by subspace on Mar 16, 2019 9:12:22 GMT -6
The MOTU 828ES provides 4 stereo latency-free cue mixes at 96k that can be controlled over wi-fi, so I would concentrate on a multi-channel headphone amplifier and a cheap tablet for the talent. Do you have your MOTU connected to a wi-fi router yet? Once you do, you can open a browser on any device connected to that hot spot, type in the ip address displayed on the 828es front panel and you'll have control over the mixer. I've got an old iPad4 in the tracking room, generally one band member takes over the cue mixes anyway, but they can pass it around if they are so inclined. I use the extra groups in the mixer to assign all the live mics to one fader and DAW playback to another, which makes playback/overdub management easier.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 16, 2019 10:12:23 GMT -6
M57, subspace has the right idea. This is what I was looking for.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 16, 2019 10:58:05 GMT -6
EmRR, do you use tablets for headphone mixes with your motu rig? jeromemason? I'm sure some motu guys here must be doing it. Yeah, it’s all over WiFi. You could just set it up with buying some used iPads at a pawn shop. They sell em dirt cheap.
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Post by M57 on Mar 16, 2019 11:09:04 GMT -6
The MOTU 828ES provides 4 stereo latency-free cue mixes at 96k that can be controlled over wi-fi, so I would concentrate on a multi-channel headphone amplifier and a cheap tablet for the talent. Do you have your MOTU connected to a wi-fi router yet? Once you do, you can open a browser on any device connected to that hot spot, type in the ip address displayed on the 828es front panel and you'll have control over the mixer. I've got an old iPad4 in the tracking room, generally one band member takes over the cue mixes anyway, but they can pass it around if they are so inclined. I use the extra groups in the mixer to assign all the live mics to one fader and DAW playback to another, which makes playback/overdub management easier. I have a headphone distribution amp, and an iPad in the studio that's been dedicated to tuning the piano, so this totally looks to be the way to go. For me it'll be complicated as hell to set up, but once done.. Thanks.
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Post by Quint on Mar 16, 2019 17:00:22 GMT -6
Yeah, I think wifi control is the way to go. So many less wires, and it's not like everyone doesn't have a smart phone these days. The band can just use their smart phone if you don't/can't spend the money on tablets.
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