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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 23, 2014 11:06:12 GMT -6
I found this, it looks awesome, i'm wondering if anyone has any info on its origin? The pcb looks remarkably similar to Groupdiy's "Ioaudio"'s (max) MK47 pcb and tube implementation design, and Equinox body's. It wouldn't be cool if this isnt max and his product IMV, because it's his design(tube/layout), if it is Max, then hell yes!!
any info is appreciated, thanxmicandmod.com/en/diy-mics/100-u47-diy-kit-matched-pair.html
Urgent!!
Hey fella's!
it has come to my attention on good authority, that this company has indeed taken the personal designs of Groupdiy's Chunger and Matador(C12), Ioaudio (MK47), and possibly danderloo(collective cases), and who knows who else??, and selling them as their own, without permission or recognition of these guys as the hard working creators of their designs! These guys put a lot of $ and R&D work into the designs they came up with, and they deserve to be respected and treated fairly, we are men of honor here on this site, and i'm asking you guys to please not patronize this company. Competition is one thing, this is something much less than honorable IMV, and very upsetting to me knowing i brought attention to this company, i have nothing but respect for the guys who've been taken advantage of here.
thanx guys
T
MK47 groupdiy.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=1o3hpjf1u2qgp5454l8edidjt5&topic=41379.0
Matachung C12 groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=51377.0
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Post by svart on Feb 23, 2014 11:39:35 GMT -6
Don't know anything about the kit, but the body/power supply chassis is the OEM version of the Apex460, etc.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 23, 2014 12:01:41 GMT -6
Don't know anything about the kit, but the body/power supply chassis is the OEM version of the Apex460, etc. Hey Chris, are you looking at the link i posted?? Not sure what you mean, the ps and body don't look remotely like a 460 to me??? |
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Post by svart on Feb 23, 2014 12:39:29 GMT -6
Oh I see, the link you posted redirects to the front page and I clicked on the top link, it took me to a C12 clone. Sorry.
With euro exchange rates, it's 2200$..
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Post by mulmany on Feb 23, 2014 17:37:53 GMT -6
Not a lot of info on the business.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 23, 2014 18:45:56 GMT -6
Believe that's without capsules. But still a cool deal.
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Post by winetree on Feb 23, 2014 20:24:06 GMT -6
Says that includes everything, even the capsules.
But they are suppose to be the better Chinese capsules.
That would be my most questionable part.
1499.00 Euros = 2058. dollars for the kit.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 23, 2014 21:57:06 GMT -6
It's like the price is right on the exchange rate lol! But I guess we agree it's about $2k US
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Post by svart on Feb 23, 2014 22:27:58 GMT -6
You have to select the capsules from a drop down menu. It defaults to without.
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Post by chunger on Feb 24, 2014 20:03:53 GMT -6
I found this, it looks awesome, i'm wondering if anyone has any info on its origin? The pcb looks remarkably similar to Groupdiy's "Ioaudio"'s (max) MK47 pcb and tube implementation design, and Equinox body's. It wouldn't be cool if this isn't max's product IMV, because it's his design(tube/layout), if it is Max, then hell yes!! any info is appreciated, thanx micandmod.com/en/diy-mics/100-u47-diy-kit-matched-pair.htmlHey Tonycamphd, I thought it would be prudent to post that this is NOT ioaudio's kit and he is not happy about this not-so-subtle copy of his mk47 kit/circuit by Mic and Mod without his consent. I recommend purchasing the original mk47 kit directly from ioaudio and building the PSU from the PCB made by Zayance or point to point. Please support the folks who did the development work to bring these kits to market. Ioaudio's new point to point U47 kit looks to be fantastic btw and should be coming out in the next few months. I am looking forward to building one and doing what I can to let the world (wide web) see it. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 24, 2014 20:33:20 GMT -6
Please see first post!!!!!!
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awtac
Full Member
Posts: 37 
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Post by awtac on Feb 24, 2014 21:07:32 GMT -6
Certainly the idea of using a pair of 6028's in a U47 style mic was absolutely brought to the masses via group thought on group diy and the kits that ioaudio was making available there. Whether the guy linked her has permission for these kits or not is anyone's guess, but the origin of what he is selling is very clear to see...
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Post by svart on Feb 24, 2014 21:25:02 GMT -6
I kept telling you guys that so many folks making clones out there were stealing other's work.. Did anyone listen? Noooooo.  |
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Post by littlesicily on Feb 24, 2014 22:08:15 GMT -6
I kept telling you guys that so many folks making clones out there were stealing other's work.. Did anyone listen? Noooooo. Is it not possible for the creators of the kits, circuits, etc to copyright their designs? |
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Post by svart on Feb 24, 2014 22:20:16 GMT -6
Most of those are based on old designs that are no longer under patents, trademark or copyright, but were once. That makes them ineligible. What the unscrupulous folks are doing is trolling forums looking for things to copy directly, like layouts, plans, etc. So while most cloners are generally only making things for themselves or small groups, there are others out there who take the kits, copy them and sell them for profit, even though the original person who did the layout or design work never intended for that to happen.
Take the GSSL for example. It was once a small DIY project for education purpose, now there are no less than a dozen separate companies selling copies based on it, for profit.
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Post by kidvybes on Feb 25, 2014 11:50:59 GMT -6
...unless I'm mistaken, I believe Dany Bouchard (Poctop), also from the Group DIY forums designed the blue PCBs (U47 and C12) for Mic and Mods... Link to Dany's own post (my apologies to the moderators if the link is restricted): www.gearslutz.com/board/9839521-post172.html |
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Post by sll on Feb 25, 2014 12:07:06 GMT -6
Obviously a blatant ripoff of Max's work on Group DIY. Looks like a couple of other products are taken from there as well, like Dany's U-87 and 67's.
Nothing anyone can do to stop this unfortunately. The designs are based on old expired patents (if a patent was ever issued).
In addition, it would be too costly to try to legally protect one's work as a small guy. No one is getting rich off these projects, it's the sharing spirit of the DIY community that allows them to exist.
Too bad there are scumbags that rip it off.
It's one thing to come up with your own variation of the U-47, or whatever. Too copy the board layouts and topology is another.
I know most of us won't patronize these guys, unfortunately, there are people that probably will as they don't know the history, or care.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 25, 2014 12:14:34 GMT -6
I've had two songs blatantly ripped off...I guess I could hire a $300 an hour lawyer and hope I win...and suffer the stigma of being someone that sues...but I'll pass. Shitty part of the whole business. Just gotta hope people will be honest.
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Post by kidvybes on Feb 25, 2014 12:44:24 GMT -6
Obviously a blatant ripoff of Max's work on Group DIY. Looks like a couple of other products are taken from there as well, like Dany's U-87 and 67's. ...as I said in my previous post, it is Dany himself that is working for Mic and Mod...so it appears Mic and Mod has hired/commissioned a respected member of the Group DIY community to provide the boards for these kits... |
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Post by sll on Feb 25, 2014 12:55:59 GMT -6
Obviously a blatant ripoff of Max's work on Group DIY. Looks like a couple of other products are taken from there as well, like Dany's U-87 and 67's. ...as I said in my previous post, it is Dany himself that is working for Mic and Mod...so it appears Mic and Mod has hired/commissioned a respected member of the Group DIY community to provide the boards for these kits... I missed that. So it's mostly Max's work that is ripped off? |
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Post by kidvybes on Feb 25, 2014 13:19:06 GMT -6
...as I said in my previous post, it is Dany himself that is working for Mic and Mod...so it appears Mic and Mod has hired/commissioned a respected member of the Group DIY community to provide the boards for these kits... I missed that. So it's mostly Max's work that is ripped off? ...someone would have to compare the PCBs Dany designed to see if they duplicate Max's...knowing as much as I know about Dany's work, I doubt they are identical...Dany's work is impressive enough for Oliver Archut to recommend Dany's PCBs on the TAB-Funkenwerk's site: www.tab-funkenwerk.com/index.html...so I would tend to believe Dany worked out his own version from the original schematics, though the dual tube utilization looks to be similar...I guess someone could reach out to Dany to ask his thoughts... |
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Post by chunger on Feb 25, 2014 15:04:44 GMT -6
DIY is an interesting market that seems to be evolving pretty quickly in interesting ways. It is on the one hand easier to exploit because of its open/educational nature. It would be uncommon and borderline rude to ask a conventional manufacturer of an audio product for schematics, component lists and specifications, etc. But it's all out in the open for DIY.
I've found the community to be quite cordial in general even between vendors with overlapping products. Good will and reputation are established by contribution to the collective knowledge base as well as development work to make desirable projects accessible. . . along with all of the regular pricing, supply, support, and documentation aspects that effect any small business.
It's a small world, and word of unscrupulous practices spreads quickly. In that regard, the market tends to have a "self-healing" effect as most builders are obsessive researchers and quickly locate and recognize the primary contributors in the game. The chain of events leading up to the deployment of a project is often publicly documented and DIY people tend to figure things out when there is an anomaly.
Also, it is tedious work maintaining the availability of a project to the general public especially in such a small niche. Many times, things will only be released in limited quantity and then disappear. . . leaving room for another person or company to pick up the "abandoned" project.
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Post by chunger on Feb 25, 2014 15:13:58 GMT -6
Dany's boards are being supplied to Mic and Mod by Dany. . . the U87 product is legitimate because Dany agreed to supply them with boards for their kit and is receiving compensation, but the hand was forced in a way because Dany had a lull in sales and feared that if he did not supply them with PCB's, they would create their own similar board.
As for Matador and Ioaudio who obviously did not agree to work with Mic and Mod, they simply made almost identical versions of the designs without consent.
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Post by kidvybes on Feb 25, 2014 15:30:38 GMT -6
...and it should be noted that Mic and Mod has clearly lifted the entire concept for their website from the Group DIY forum project offerings, as well as the microphone-parts.com website, from the very beginning...frankly it's difficult to find much on the Mic and Mod website that doesn't have direct origin/inspiration from a previous source that did much of the legwork and development... ...there is this: micandmod.com/en/23-logo-badge |
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 25, 2014 15:58:38 GMT -6
This is disgusting! I can't believe poctop would partake in this, he has his own website for vintage DIY mics, he could hire a few builders and kill mic/mod on reputation alone??? This makes no sense to me, Has Dan explained himself? Groupdiy site must be blowing up?? Btw, that u47 is a BLATANT rip off of Max's work!
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