|
Post by brewer on Feb 17, 2019 9:56:57 GMT -6
I've always heard about the FET/Opto combination for vocals and like what I hear in the samples posted. Could anyone tell me what possibilities to expect from a FET/Varimu combination, and would the Opto & Varimu be interchangeable (for similar sound) or completely different?
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 17, 2019 10:54:19 GMT -6
I've always heard about the FET/Opto combination for vocals and like what I hear in the samples posted. Could anyone tell me what possibilities to expect from a FET/Varimu combination, and would the Opto & Varimu be interchangeable (for similar sound) or completely different? Different, for sure. But don't let that stop you! A Manley VariMu (for example) can be awesome on vocals.
|
|
|
Post by jeromemason on Feb 17, 2019 16:25:33 GMT -6
My vocal chain is all tube, but a 176 is kind of like an 1176 when it comes to the aggression style. I run that into a Retro Doublwide II where things get way softer, with fast attack and slow release. I like to peg the first aggressive compressor pretty hard, really letting it give the vocal attitude and how much i want it tamed is basically just how hard I let the soft compressor work after it. So this is one guy who will tell you that FET into VM for sure works.
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Feb 17, 2019 16:45:08 GMT -6
And the concept of hitting hard or limiting before the soft compressor makes sense at least theoretically as you don't want peaks tripping up the soft comp. Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
Post by brewer on Feb 17, 2019 17:09:22 GMT -6
My vocal chain is all tube, but a 176 is kind of like an 1176 when it comes to the aggression style. I run that into a Retro Doublwide II where things get way softer, with fast attack and slow release. I like to peg the first aggressive compressor pretty hard, really letting it give the vocal attitude and how much i want it tamed is basically just how hard I let the soft compressor work after it. So this is one guy who will tell you that FET into VM for sure works. Thanks! I've never heard it explained this way- very clear on the "why" factor. By pegging the first aggressive compressor hard, do you mean fast attack and fast release?
|
|
|
Post by jeromemason on Feb 17, 2019 22:24:13 GMT -6
My vocal chain is all tube, but a 176 is kind of like an 1176 when it comes to the aggression style. I run that into a Retro Doublwide II where things get way softer, with fast attack and slow release. I like to peg the first aggressive compressor pretty hard, really letting it give the vocal attitude and how much i want it tamed is basically just how hard I let the soft compressor work after it. So this is one guy who will tell you that FET into VM for sure works. Thanks! I've never heard it explained this way- very clear on the "why" factor. By pegging the first aggressive compressor hard, do you mean fast attack and fast release? Actually what you're basically creating is both an RMS compression and peak compression. You would think that this would be reverse in how I do it, but it's not. It allows you to make the vocal either aggressive with lots of dynamic swinging, or you can pin it down for more pop style tracks. First, rough in an EQ on the vocal. Do you HPF and your mid cut and air before the compression. I always set the FET style to medium attack and fastest release, so right in the middle on attack and the fastest release you have, that's why FET or 176's are good for this. You want to really push hard into that stage, go as far as to when the breaths start getting annoying and then back it down little by little until they seem semi natural (i'll tell you how to fix this as well.) After that run into the slow VM, set it up with a fast attack, like 10% coming through and then time the release to the natural movement in his/her voice. Push it all the way until the compressor starts to duck on the peaks and then back it down little by little until it feels natural. Now, at this point, the VM comp may only be doing 2b of compression, but it's doing a whole lot more than that meter is telling you, it's working a lot. Now put a couple of de-essers on, set the first to grab at 2k and make sure it's only knocking like 3 or 4db off, this takes out the "honk", your next one set it on the actually ess's and get it sounding natural. After you've done this, if the breath's are too much, pick up Izotopes "Nectar 3" Go ahead and commit/Print the compression from the EQ/FET/VM/dessers so you're left with a blank track that's been EQ'd/leveled/de-essed. Now use Nectar's breath control and bring those down until it's natural. Now, you can print that if you want, or, leave it on and start working on your mix. If you find your vocal needs a little more EQ or compression to pin it down, Nectar 3 has some amazing EQ and compression models. At this point you should have a vocal that sounds extremely natural, sits anywhere you want in the mix and doesn't sound like you've done anything to it. I hope this helps you in your mixing! Jerome
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Feb 18, 2019 0:09:32 GMT -6
RS124 into a Blue Stripe 1176 is one of my favorite combos.
|
|
|
Post by brewer on Feb 18, 2019 9:37:53 GMT -6
Thanks! I've never heard it explained this way- very clear on the "why" factor. By pegging the first aggressive compressor hard, do you mean fast attack and fast release? Actually what you're basically creating is both an RMS compression and peak compression. You would think that this would be reverse in how I do it, but it's not. It allows you to make the vocal either aggressive with lots of dynamic swinging, or you can pin it down for more pop style tracks. First, rough in an EQ on the vocal. Do you HPF and your mid cut and air before the compression. I always set the FET style to medium attack and fastest release, so right in the middle on attack and the fastest release you have, that's why FET or 176's are good for this. You want to really push hard into that stage, go as far as to when the breaths start getting annoying and then back it down little by little until they seem semi natural (i'll tell you how to fix this as well.) After that run into the slow VM, set it up with a fast attack, like 10% coming through and then time the release to the natural movement in his/her voice. Push it all the way until the compressor starts to duck on the peaks and then back it down little by little until it feels natural. Now, at this point, the VM comp may only be doing 2b of compression, but it's doing a whole lot more than that meter is telling you, it's working a lot. Now put a couple of de-essers on, set the first to grab at 2k and make sure it's only knocking like 3 or 4db off, this takes out the "honk", your next one set it on the actually ess's and get it sounding natural. After you've done this, if the breath's are too much, pick up Izotopes "Nectar 3" Go ahead and commit/Print the compression from the EQ/FET/VM/dessers so you're left with a blank track that's been EQ'd/leveled/de-essed. Now use Nectar's breath control and bring those down until it's natural. Now, you can print that if you want, or, leave it on and start working on your mix. If you find your vocal needs a little more EQ or compression to pin it down, Nectar 3 has some amazing EQ and compression models. At this point you should have a vocal that sounds extremely natural, sits anywhere you want in the mix and doesn't sound like you've done anything to it. I hope this helps you in your mixing! Jerome This is great. Thanks for the details and looking forward to putting this to work. Now I just need a 1176.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Feb 18, 2019 9:38:25 GMT -6
My vocal chain is all tube, but a 176 is kind of like an 1176 when it comes to the aggression style. I run that into a Retro Doublwide II where things get way softer, with fast attack and slow release. I like to peg the first aggressive compressor pretty hard, really letting it give the vocal attitude and how much i want it tamed is basically just how hard I let the soft compressor work after it. So this is one guy who will tell you that FET into VM for sure works. Mine's almost all tube, except I use an 1176 for the agression to tame the peaks. I use an LA2a, CL1b or SA2a first, because The soft clipping of tubes does a lot of the work to even things out in a musical manner before the 1176 says "that's enough of that, we'll have no shouty bits around here, thank you very much!"
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Feb 18, 2019 9:40:10 GMT -6
I've always heard about the FET/Opto combination for vocals and like what I hear in the samples posted. Could anyone tell me what possibilities to expect from a FET/Varimu combination, and would the Opto & Varimu be interchangeable (for similar sound) or completely different? Anything that uses Tubes first, Varimu or opto, will have the same effect I just described in my reply to Jerome above. I prefer the tubes before the 1176 FET for the reason described.
|
|
|
Post by brewer on Feb 18, 2019 9:44:35 GMT -6
RS124 into a Blue Stripe 1176 is one of my favorite combos. Seawell, this is interesting as it is the opposite of what Jerome was saying. So an entirely different flavor- would you care to elaborate on you settings? BTW, what Blue Stripe are you using?
|
|
|
Post by brewer on Feb 18, 2019 9:48:14 GMT -6
I've always heard about the FET/Opto combination for vocals and like what I hear in the samples posted. Could anyone tell me what possibilities to expect from a FET/Varimu combination, and would the Opto & Varimu be interchangeable (for similar sound) or completely different? Anything that uses Tubes first, Varimu or opto, will have the same effect I just described in my reply to Jerome above. I prefer the tubes before the 1176 FET for the reason described. Thanks for the explanation, Ward. Great stuff! I'm now sold on the idea of picking up a 1176 in the near future.
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Feb 18, 2019 10:41:32 GMT -6
RS124 into a Blue Stripe 1176 is one of my favorite combos. Seawell, this is interesting as it is the opposite of what Jerome was saying. So an entirely different flavor- would you care to elaborate on you settings? BTW, what Blue Stripe are you using? For whatever reason, anytime I've tried a 2 compressor combo with an 1176 involved, I always prefer it last in the chain. For the RS124 > 1176 combo I like to barely hit the RS124(usually 60070B, Superfuse, fastest release compressing about 2-4 db) it's more about vibe/tone than compression on this one. Then the 1176 has an attack in the 3-4 range and a release in the 7-5 range, compressing 7-10db). What's available to me now is a Serpent Audio Splice MKII which is my favorite blue stripe clone I've found. When an 1176 isn't available, I've actually had good success with an RS124 into a Retro 176. Even though the 176 is vari-mu it is fast enough and can get aggressive enough to bring the control I'm looking for in that second slot compressor. I just got a Magic Death Eye compressor a few days ago so I'll let you know how it goes in combo with the Splice.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Feb 18, 2019 10:45:27 GMT -6
Seawell, this is interesting as it is the opposite of what Jerome was saying. So an entirely different flavor- would you care to elaborate on you settings? BTW, what Blue Stripe are you using? For whatever reason, anytime I've tried a 2 compressor combo with an 1176 involved, I always prefer it last in the chain. For the RS124 > 1176 combo I like to barely hit the RS124(usually 60070B, Superfuse, fastest release compressing about 2-4 db) it's more about vibe/tone than compression on this one. Then the 1176 has an attack in the 3-4 range and a release in the 7-5 range, compressing 7-10db). What's available to me now is a Serpent Audio Splice MKII which is my favorite blue stripe clone I've found. When an 1176 isn't available, I've actually had good success with an RS124 into a Retro 176. Even though the 176 is vari-mu it is fast enough and can get aggressive enough to bring the control I'm looking for in that second slot compressor. I just got a Magic Death Eye compressor a few days ago so I'll let you know how it goes in combo with the Splice. Awesome! Looking forward to your review.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Feb 18, 2019 11:37:26 GMT -6
For whatever reason, anytime I've tried a 2 compressor combo with an 1176 involved, I always prefer it last in the chain. For the RS124 > 1176 combo I like to barely hit the RS124(usually 60070B, Superfuse, fastest release compressing about 2-4 db) it's more about vibe/tone than compression on this one. Then the 1176 has an attack in the 3-4 range and a release in the 7-5 range, compressing 7-10db). What's available to me now is a Serpent Audio Splice MKII which is my favorite blue stripe clone I've found. When an 1176 isn't available, I've actually had good success with an RS124 into a Retro 176. Even though the 176 is vari-mu it is fast enough and can get aggressive enough to bring the control I'm looking for in that second slot compressor. I just got a Magic Death Eye compressor a few days ago so I'll let you know how it goes in combo with the Splice. Awesome! Looking forward to your review. I started with opto into 1176 when I first tried it years back. Can be great! Not sure when/why I switched, probably from reading about people doing it the other way!
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Feb 18, 2019 12:58:45 GMT -6
For whatever reason, anytime I've tried a 2 compressor combo with an 1176 involved, I always prefer it last in the chain. For the RS124 > 1176 combo I like to barely hit the RS124(usually 60070B, Superfuse, fastest release compressing about 2-4 db) it's more about vibe/tone than compression on this one. Then the 1176 has an attack in the 3-4 range and a release in the 7-5 range, compressing 7-10db). What's available to me now is a Serpent Audio Splice MKII which is my favorite blue stripe clone I've found. When an 1176 isn't available, I've actually had good success with an RS124 into a Retro 176. Even though the 176 is vari-mu it is fast enough and can get aggressive enough to bring the control I'm looking for in that second slot compressor. I just got a Magic Death Eye compressor a few days ago so I'll let you know how it goes in combo with the Splice. Awesome! Looking forward to your review. The early impression is that I've never had a compressor that held a vocal in place so well with only 2-3db of compression. It's crazy!
|
|
|
Post by jeromemason on Feb 18, 2019 13:23:19 GMT -6
Awesome! Looking forward to your review. The early impression is that I've never had a compressor that held a vocal in place so well with only 2-3db of compression. It's crazy! The Retro Doublewide II does it too Vari-mu design, but they did somethings in there that really beefed it up from the original. I'd love to have one of those MDE comps, but I don't even know how much one is or how to even order one.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 18, 2019 13:46:43 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Feb 18, 2019 14:19:07 GMT -6
The early impression is that I've never had a compressor that held a vocal in place so well with only 2-3db of compression. It's crazy! The Retro Doublewide II does it too Vari-mu design, but they did somethings in there that really beefed it up from the original. I'd love to have one of those MDE comps, but I don't even know how much one is or how to even order one. I really need to check out the new doublewide. I love the 176 & Sta Level!
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Feb 18, 2019 14:23:43 GMT -6
I’m hesistant to say as mine is the first of a redesign called “model future.” I’m not sure if the price will stay the same. Ian is a great guy though and quick to respond so I’d shoot him a message: info@magicdeatheye.com
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 18, 2019 14:35:57 GMT -6
I’m hesistant to say as mine is the first of a redesign called “model future.” I’m not sure if the price will stay the same. Ian is a great guy though and quick to respond so I’d shoot him a message: info@magicdeatheye.com Any Ballpark?
|
|
|
Post by guitfiddler on Feb 18, 2019 14:40:15 GMT -6
I had an original doublewide...meh...Intetested in hearing the doublewide II.
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Feb 18, 2019 15:12:11 GMT -6
I’m hesistant to say as mine is the first of a redesign called “model future.” I’m not sure if the price will stay the same. Ian is a great guy though and quick to respond so I’d shoot him a message: info@magicdeatheye.com Any Ballpark? You're in it with your guess
|
|
|
Post by svart on Feb 19, 2019 8:46:20 GMT -6
I've always heard about the FET/Opto combination for vocals and like what I hear in the samples posted. Could anyone tell me what possibilities to expect from a FET/Varimu combination, and would the Opto & Varimu be interchangeable (for similar sound) or completely different? The idea is that the 1176 is "fast" for limiting transients and the following LA2A is "slow" for more level control. Kind of a pseudo limiter/compressor combo. Varimu is generally extremely fast on it's own and I personally don't think there would be any benefit to using a FET compressor and a varimu together. I would simply use the variable-mu on it's own in this case.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,811
|
Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2019 10:51:11 GMT -6
Don’t think in the generic topology terms, think of what the piece brings to the party and how this will get you where you want to go.
|
|