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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 1, 2019 12:15:58 GMT -6
A lot of the makers are using the Studio 939 body kit or something similar. store.studio939.com/product/syt-5-microphone-body-kitHowever, if you can pull a black spade and maybe add a coat of pain and make it look polished you’d do a bit better. I liked what you guys did with your 47 FET. You could do something similar to that. Definitely an option to pretty up some Chinese bodies as many companies have been doing for years, including many $3000+ mics. But right now, our MO is to keep it mostly local and keep control of the manufacturing from start to finish. In doing so we'll definitely make less profit per mic, but ultimately the most important thing to me is that we as a company feel good about our products, and using off the shelf Chinese bodies just makes me feel icky inside If we decide we need to cut costs on metal work, we'd more likely be going to some European shops where we could have some custom work done for good prices (not Chinese prices, but less than USA). And nothing against companies using Chinese manufacturing -- there's a lot of good work being done there, and a great sounding mic can be in a Chinese body or an American made body... We just want to do something different and somewhat unique to stand out from the crowd. But we'll do everything possible to keep our mics affordable, because we do want people to actually buy them
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Post by timcampbell on Feb 1, 2019 12:26:37 GMT -6
Vincent I just used Misha as an example. If I spent an hour I could probably post 5 pages of pics of wonderful clone mics small shops are building, many in the lower price range.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 1, 2019 12:32:08 GMT -6
Well I think that there are a ton of small boutique builders like Misha El with his Goodfly brand who have done this and are under your price point. This is his 251.
I'm sure those sound great because they have your capsule in them! And it looks like they're using at least some Chinese bodies to keep costs down (nothing wrong with that). Their 47 appears to be an Aputis body made in Lithuania, which is a good example of European shops doing really nice work for much less than USA prices. Do you know of any US boutique companies making high end tube mics completely in the USA with pricing under $3000? I haven't seen any personally. I'm not even sure it's possible since almost everyone is buying their capsules from China, Europe, or maybe Australia.
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Post by timcampbell on Feb 1, 2019 12:35:32 GMT -6
Yes. Just off the top of my head Lawson in Tenn.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 1, 2019 12:39:03 GMT -6
Yes. Just off the top of my head Lawson in Tenn. Ah yeah Lawson; forgot about them. Right on. They're the only one's I've seen doing that.... but there's probably more. Lawson basically uses a variation of the same body and headbasket for every mic, which is a smart way to control costs.
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Post by jtc111 on Feb 1, 2019 12:48:53 GMT -6
If I'm being honest, I'd be put off by a 67 that looks like a 251.
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Post by drbill on Feb 1, 2019 12:54:04 GMT -6
Agreed!
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Post by sirthought on Feb 1, 2019 12:56:05 GMT -6
Icky? It's machined metal. This sounds exactly like you have something against Chinese manufacturing.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 1, 2019 13:01:00 GMT -6
If I'm being honest, I'd be put off by a 67 that looks like a 251. Yeah me too... but it sure does reduce investment costs in new products! To each their own though. We'll be sticking with the iconic looks of the mics we're emulating, with hopefully a bit of a modern touch to keep things interesting. Also did I mention that we have an original mic coming out this year that'll be under $500? It's not a clone of anything and it's not a tube mic (obviously for that price). Some folks at NAMM may have been treated to a sneak peek, but that's all I can say right now
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Post by drbill on Feb 1, 2019 13:09:48 GMT -6
Chinese manufacturing can be GREAT if you design, spec and pay for great. tc electronic's Clarity M is an excellent example. But unfortunately, most who go to China for their mic bodies and head baskets are looking for the cheapest options available to compete in that lower end market.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 1, 2019 13:11:22 GMT -6
Icky? It's machined metal. This sounds exactly like you have something against Chinese manufacturing. Sorry if it came across that way, but that's not the case -- we just want to be original and do something different, and stay true to ourselves. And not be a 'me too' company. The icky feeling has nothing to do with WHERE it's manufactured, just the fact that it's what everyone else is doing, and we don't wan't to be like everyone else. Also, as a small company, at this time we probably couldn't afford to do custom bodies in China because the minimum orders are so high, so we'd be stuck using off the shelf parts, which is a non-starter for us. We've visited an extremely nice Chinese factory and as I said, they were doing some great work. Nothing against them or anyone that uses Chinese parts! In fact, there's some things that they do much better than anyone else....
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Post by sirthought on Feb 1, 2019 13:22:21 GMT -6
Well if you're interested in making the best microphone for customers all over the world, it doesn't really matter where the parts come from. I can understand if you are making everything yourselves and want to keep the jobs local, but you're not. And you've stated here more than once that you want to buy a US made body, with no justification of what that adds, other than cost. And you even said you might buy European, even if it was a bit more, but still not Chinese. So...that sounds like it's against being Chinese, which has nothing to do with making a good quality mic, unless the part is somehow crap, which everyone would agree isn't what you'd want to sell us.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 1, 2019 13:46:58 GMT -6
So we've got the H47 shipping soon, and the H47 Tube well underway, as well as a few projects that we're not quite ready to discuss yet... But we'd love to get some feedback on what mics you guys would like to see next. I'm limiting the poll to microphones for which we already have great capsules ready. Also, do you want to see versions of these mics that perfectly capture the tones of these famous mics, or would you like to see some twist on the original designs? By the way, we definitely have an SDC in our sites, but that'll take a bit longer since we don't currently manufacture an SDC capsule, and it'll take some time to properly develop one. I would like to see mics that capture the characteristics and essential character of the original mics as exactly as possible. The world is already full of "inspired by" and "based on" clones, none of which do an exact job of reproducing the classic designs. Lots of "modern versions" which are, as my father used to say "Gilding the lily". If I wanted a "modern voiced" mic - which I don't - I'd buy a modern mic.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 1, 2019 13:52:55 GMT -6
Well if you're interested in making the best microphone for customers all over the world, it doesn't really matter where the parts come from. I can understand if you are making everything yourselves and want to keep the jobs local, but you're not. And you've stated here more than once that you want to buy a US made body, with no justification of what that adds, other than cost. And you even said you might buy European, even if it was a bit more, but still not Chinese. So...that sounds like it's against being Chinese, which has nothing to do with making a good quality mic, unless the part is somehow crap, which everyone would agree isn't what you'd want to sell us. I agree completely with your first sentiment, though we are actually trying to keep jobs in the USA if possible. But I did mention a few times that making a USA body gives us better quality control and more customization. We work hand in hand with our local machinists to design exactly what we want... being able to visit the shop and discuss the designs in person is immensely helpful and dramatically increases the speed of prototyping and bringing a new product to market compared with making something in China or Europe. It's a huge advantage that can't be understated. My statement about being more willing to work with European companies was due to the fact that we can have custom work done in much smaller batches that we could actually afford... we already have a relationship with one such shop. Anyway, there are a lot of subtleties to this debate that I'm sure I didn't adequately address in my previous comments, but hopefully this clears things up a bit. I don't want to come across as disparaging Chinese manufacturing in any way, and I'm sorry if I did.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 1, 2019 13:55:17 GMT -6
With correct body/head basket When you say 'correct body' I'm assuming you mean the size/shape of the body and not necessarily the internal construction? Affordability goes out the door once you try to replicate all of the internals of a mic. It depends on whether the internal construction has an effect on the acoustics of the mic. Body resonances, etc.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 1, 2019 14:01:30 GMT -6
Yes. Just off the top of my head Lawson in Tenn. Ah yeah Lawson; forgot about them. Right on. They're the only one's I've seen doing that.... but there's probably more. Lawson basically uses a variation of the same body and headbasket for every mic, which is a smart way to control costs. But completely ignores the fact that headbasket design influences resonances that affect the character of the mic.
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rpc
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by rpc on Feb 1, 2019 14:03:53 GMT -6
Regarding price...I think Mark Fouxman is asking a fair price for his TF08, around $1000 once the intro special runs out. This has a US made capsule and body and comes in a wooden case with a commodity shock mount. I'd say his capsule is pretty much equal in complexity to a CK12, albeit with only one diaphragm. He's stated it's transformerless and solid-state to meet that price point. So...add $300 for multipattern, another $200 for a top-flight output transformer (whether tube or solid-state) and $600 for the package of tube electronics, custom cable, and power supply. (Oh, and $100 for a Rycote shock mount and maybe a bit more for a quality spider web.) So a little over $2000 sounds like a fair deal to me.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 1, 2019 14:08:27 GMT -6
Regarding price...I think Mark Fouxman is asking a fair price for his TF08, around $1000 once the intro special runs out. This has a US made capsule and body and comes in a wooden case with a commodity shock mount. I'd say his capsule is pretty much equal in complexity to a CK12, albeit with only one diaphragm. He's stated it's transformerless and solid-state to meet that price point. So...add $300 for multipattern, another $200 for a top-flight output transformer (whether tube or solid-state) and $600 for the package of tube electronics, custom cable, and power supply. (Oh, and $100 for a Rycote shock mount and maybe a bit more for a quality spider web.) So a little over $2000 sounds like a fair deal to me. Sounds about right — Marks mics are a good example of some killer custom metal work. Those mics look fantastic and I’m sure they sound as good as they look.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Feb 1, 2019 14:34:23 GMT -6
Icky? It's machined metal. This sounds exactly like you have something against Chinese manufacturing. Sorry if it came across that way, but that's not the case -- we just want to be original and do something different, and stay true to ourselves. And not be a 'me too' company. The icky feeling has nothing to do with WHERE it's manufactured, just the fact that it's what everyone else is doing, and we don't wan't to be like everyone else. Also, as a small company, at this time we probably couldn't afford to do custom bodies in China because the minimum orders are so high, so we'd be stuck using off the shelf parts, which is a non-starter for us. We've visited an extremely nice Chinese factory and as I said, they were doing some great work. Nothing against them or anyone that uses Chinese parts! In fact, there's some things that they do much better than anyone else.... The biggest drawback to having custom work done in China is everybody else will have access to your design work.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 1, 2019 14:50:45 GMT -6
Sorry if it came across that way, but that's not the case -- we just want to be original and do something different, and stay true to ourselves. And not be a 'me too' company. The icky feeling has nothing to do with WHERE it's manufactured, just the fact that it's what everyone else is doing, and we don't wan't to be like everyone else. Also, as a small company, at this time we probably couldn't afford to do custom bodies in China because the minimum orders are so high, so we'd be stuck using off the shelf parts, which is a non-starter for us. We've visited an extremely nice Chinese factory and as I said, they were doing some great work. Nothing against them or anyone that uses Chinese parts! In fact, there's some things that they do much better than anyone else.... The biggest drawback to having custom work done in China is everybody else will have access to your design work. Absolutely -- another huge reason.
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Post by jtc111 on Feb 1, 2019 15:01:13 GMT -6
So when can I hear some sound samples of the Heiserman 67?
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Post by brenta on Feb 1, 2019 15:51:38 GMT -6
A lot has been said about how mics should “look money”, and I agree to an extent that aesthetics are important. However, in my experience, most clients are easily fooled in this regard. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had people oooh and awww over my MXL Revelation mic because it has a gold head basket and shiny red paint job. Never mind that it was $300 used, and that it was sitting next to a $1500 Miktek that clearly had a better quality. I mean most are impressed by anything that has a lot of buttons and blinking lights, even when the words Behringer are written across it. So I’d say, yes, perception is important, both to clients and AE’s, but there’s definitely a middle ground and I think that’s what you need to find. Btw, love the look of your fet47! Similar to my general experience. One time I had a Gefell UM70 and an SE 5500 (similar to Avantone) up. A client walked past the Gefell and up to the SE 5500 and was like, "HOLY CRAP! HOW MUCH DID THAT MIC COST?" Uh, like $250. That's one of the reasons I sold the Gefell. I'd get out my "flagship" vocal microphone and clients were like, "oh." Yeah, there are some clients that know what a Neumann or Gefell or Heiserman is, but those are the clients that mostly record themselves.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 1, 2019 16:13:21 GMT -6
Ah yeah Lawson; forgot about them. Right on. They're the only one's I've seen doing that.... but there's probably more. Lawson basically uses a variation of the same body and headbasket for every mic, which is a smart way to control costs. But completely ignores the fact that headbasket design influences resonances that affect the character of the mic. You beat me to this one.
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Post by chessparov on Feb 1, 2019 16:29:36 GMT -6
My MXL V69 wins the "bling game"! Chris
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 1, 2019 17:01:22 GMT -6
Not saying this sounds any good, but this package was very impressive when viewed close up, and the mic sold for around $500. Attachments:
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