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Post by soundintheround on Jan 29, 2019 23:04:52 GMT -6
Having said all that....I have one sitting in my closet. Haven't sold it just yet  |
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 30, 2019 11:55:31 GMT -6
I'm not a huge fan of the VLA as I prefer and have moved on to more aggressive vintage style compression. Well, when I think "vintage style compression" I'm not usually thinking "aggressive", quite the opposite in fact.
But I'm an old guy, what do I know about "vintage"?
I've got abot 15 channels of working hardware compression of various sorts (plus a couple other boxes I need to get around to servicing), and they all get used most of the time, but on a lot of them I'm touching the compression pretty gently, even the ones capable of pretty radical compression such as The Nail, the Spectra Sonics 610, and the Gain Brains. Of all the comps I have, The Nail is probably the most radical, if I wanted to use it that way.
The VLA is an opto compressor and optos are generally NOT "aggressive" or "radical", the opto cells don't work that way. It's kinda the whole point of opto - back in the old days opto compressors were called "leveling amplifiers", which inplies a longer time constant.
When I was coming up I was taught that usually if you are aware of compression in any obvious way you're probably using too much, but these days a lot of muisic is just squashed to death all the time. I guess it depends on what you're after, but to me aggressive compression screams "modern", not "vintage".
I'm guessing that you probably don't like LA2As much, either?
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 30, 2019 12:52:24 GMT -6
....I knew I ran the risk of getting flack for that comment! But it's OK.
I am not sure if aggressive is the correct term or not, but usually I thought this refers to fast release times, which is what I typically seem to like. In no way do I make 'aggressive' music or metal or anything like that. Also I think there is something about a compressor that can sound 'aggressive' but have nothing to do with the actual compression the unit is meant for, but rather distortion that results from circuit 'flaws' in the design of that era.
When referring to vintage, I mean some of the sounds of the later 60's/70's. Not Frank Sinatra type smooth compression but more Frank Zappa type stuff. Not that I am a Frank Zappa fan really, but just an example.
I do actually have a Universal Audio LA-2A. But I love that unit just as much for it's tone than for it's compression tbh. The 40db of gain is super useful and find use for it in many applications just for that reason alone. My other outboard compressors currently are:
2 Universal Audio 1176 re-issues (early serial I found very different sound and better)
2 IGS Vari Mu compressor (vari mu design but fast release and distorts things in a very nice way)
1 DBX 165a (the output clipper circuit on this is great for adding distortion)
...And I'd love to get a Chandler TG1
Does that make more sense now?
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 30, 2019 13:02:59 GMT -6
I'm learning too that compression on everything sucks the life out of the recording and isn't good. Also trying to only tap things at times.
.....But sometimes I feel you can get some pretty cool contrast if you apply heavy compression on 1 or 2 things in a mix and keep the rest fairly dynamic.
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Post by illacov on Jan 31, 2019 13:21:38 GMT -6
Since I'm the knucklehead that actually started up the last movement in the real mods for the Pro VLA that included swapping the opto cell, opamps and mods to the PSU, let's address some fallacies in various posts.
Whenever everybody is ready, please measure the voltage at the plate of a tube in most tube mics. Not the B+ rail, the actual amount of juice post any voltage dividers or load resistors. Lo and behold right on the beloved U47 it shows +34V at the VF14. Is this a "toob," mic?
Once modded you can push circa 45V to the plate on a Pro VLA. Adjusting the plate load resistor and the PSU rails offered huge gains in tone, fidelity and harmonics. Swapping the opto cell out lifted the veil completely.
The tube circuit actually offers some gorgeous tones when you clear out the gunk that's obscuring it and ramp up the PSU. Better opto cell offers improved dynamic range, increased release times, plus allowed for more gain reduction with musical qualities.
I just wanted to clarify that.
Carry on.
Thanks
-L.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 31, 2019 14:45:23 GMT -6
Since I'm the knucklehead that actually started up the last movement in the real mods for the Pro VLA that included swapping the opto cell, opamps and mods to the PSU, let's address some fallacies in various posts. Whenever everybody is ready, please measure the voltage at the plate of a tube in most tube mics. Not the B+ rail, the actual amount of juice post any voltage dividers or load resistors. Lo and behold right on the beloved U47 it shows +34V at the VF14. Is this a "toob," mic? Once modded you can push circa 45V to the plate on a Pro VLA. Adjusting the plate load resistor and the PSU rails offered huge gains in tone, fidelity and harmonics. Swapping the opto cell out lifted the veil completely. The tube circuit actually offers some gorgeous tones when you clear out the gunk that's obscuring it and ramp up the PSU. Better opto cell offers improved dynamic range, increased release times, plus allowed for more gain reduction with musical qualities. I just wanted to clarify that. Carry on. Thanks -L. What's the voltage in the art before the mods? |
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 31, 2019 15:36:26 GMT -6
Since I'm the knucklehead that actually started up the last movement in the real mods for the Pro VLA that included swapping the opto cell, opamps and mods to the PSU, let's address some fallacies in various posts. Whenever everybody is ready, please measure the voltage at the plate of a tube in most tube mics. Not the B+ rail, the actual amount of juice post any voltage dividers or load resistors. Lo and behold right on the beloved U47 it shows +34V at the VF14. Is this a "toob," mic? Once modded you can push circa 45V to the plate on a Pro VLA. Adjusting the plate load resistor and the PSU rails offered huge gains in tone, fidelity and harmonics. Swapping the opto cell out lifted the veil completely. The tube circuit actually offers some gorgeous tones when you clear out the gunk that's obscuring it and ramp up the PSU. Better opto cell offers improved dynamic range, increased release times, plus allowed for more gain reduction with musical qualities. I just wanted to clarify that. Carry on. Thanks -L. There's a big difference in the design of a VF14 and the design of a 12AX7. 12AX7s are designed to operate on relatively high voltages. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 31, 2019 16:04:27 GMT -6
Anyone still rockin' any channels of it? I want more hardware channels and was thinking of grabbing another one. I liked it when I had it and still like the sound of the demos I hear. I always found it really flexible with solid sonics. I always liked mine. It's in the attic but just because I get more lazy in my old age. It is better than any software comp I've used IMO. Easy to use. But at the same time, well recorded tracks don't need a whole lot of processing. I shoot for that more and more these days. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm a firm believer in compression but dynamics is the end of that for me. I don't look for "Character" pieces much anymore. I want the recording to sound how it sounds. |
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Post by Quint on Jan 31, 2019 18:43:51 GMT -6
The VLA was the first comp I ever bought years ago when I was first getting started. I still have it and it still gets used even though I now have many more "nicer", or at least more expensive, comps.
For what I could get selling it on the used market, it's still worth it to just keep it around. There's usually something it can get used on.
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Post by EmRR on Feb 1, 2019 23:56:46 GMT -6
Whenever everybody is ready, please measure the voltage at the plate of a tube in most tube mics. Not the B+ rail, the actual amount of juice post any voltage dividers or load resistors. Lo and behold right on the beloved U47 it shows +34V at the VF14. Is this a "toob," mic? Once modded you can push circa 45V to the plate on a Pro VLA. But this is not a mic, it’s a line level device, where you typically find voltage at least close to 100 directly on the plate, or higher. Even a u67 has 75V on the plate from a B+ of 210V. Since 45 volts is the B+ rail before the plate load resistor, you can only get 45V by eliminating that resistance, which is....wrong, especially for the 1st (and only) gain stage with the 220K resistor between 45V and the plate. Perhaps someone can measure it, I’ll guess it’s down in the 20’s at the plate. The point of the low B+ is purposeful color at all times. Yeah, all tube gear sounds real brown with the PSU turned way down. I’ve heard a lot of it on the bench with a variable PSU. Let's look at an actual compressor circuit, like an LA-2A. 115V on the 1st stage plate, from a B+ of 205V. Apples to oranges vari-mu compression. Stalevel 60-137V on the plate. BA-6 135V on the plate. Anyway, the actual point addresses the average user who does nothing other than pointlessly deplete the planets limited stock of rare expensive tubes in circuits like this for no good GD reason. Buy something worth actually putting an expensive tube in, that works it in the good part of the performance curve versus purposefully handicapping it. |
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Post by chessparov on Feb 4, 2019 13:21:14 GMT -6
So much for throwing in a Mullard, in my MXL V69!  Chris |
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Post by EmRR on Feb 4, 2019 14:11:07 GMT -6
So much for throwing in a Mullard, in my MXL V69! Chris Everything reads like that's a proper circuit....probably could use a better capsule though if you're gonna burn a tube worth as much as the mic itself. Tubes need dignity too! |
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Post by chessparov on Feb 4, 2019 22:26:07 GMT -6
Great point Doug. I got it mint/complete accessories for $110. Sometimes tempted to throw an AA 47 capsule in it for grins. Might be a fun/lite DIY thing.
Main issue is lack of top end detail, with stock MXL capsule. My limited understanding, was that it's a weird hybrid tube microphone. Fun to sing through though. Good for breathy/Zombies "Time of the Season" style vocals.
Please forgive me going a bit OT.
I find it interesting, however, the general "let's throw a different tube in into it" concept.
Chris
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Post by illacov on Feb 5, 2019 13:01:55 GMT -6
Once the solid state PSU was rebuilt it was clocking in at 60V and the plate resistor was dropped to 100K.
Sounded a ton better and some 5965 tubes sounded great in there to my ears. Replacing the vactrol makes a huge tonal difference. I'm talking blindfold off the eyes different. Stock tubes which were muddy and fugly were now bright and harsh. Keep adjusting items like plate resistor and PSU voltage. Major difference. Cheap compressor that can be made to function exceptionally well.
Mastering engineers enjoyed using the modded VLA and sometimes picked it over other noteworthy options such as VariMu.
I no longer sell these mods, I know of others do. Once the information became public, it was inevitable.
Thanks
-L.
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