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Post by jakeharris on Feb 10, 2019 10:47:26 GMT -6
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Post by M57 on Feb 10, 2019 10:57:47 GMT -6
Where can you find KM84's for that kind of money? I'm assuming at those prices, they're gonna be in fair condition at best ..and need re-furbishing. Agree that $200 is not a big deal. No doubt we'll be hearing shootouts of the WA and KM, but I'd love to hear a shoot out of the Warm and the Warbler.
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Warm WA-84
Feb 10, 2019 12:53:42 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 10, 2019 12:53:42 GMT -6
Interesting for sure, but if it's really just a 3U Audio Warbler 127 C-Flat with a different body and tranny, I don't think it's gonna be a serious challenge to a well maintained KM-84. Just my two cents. Hard to imagine it could be considering you can buy the Warm for less than 1/4th the price of a used KM-84. What's a well-maintained pair of KM-84's going for these days? ..$3500 (if you can even find them). Name aside, I want to know if the WA-84 beats its 'realistic' competition. For starters, I'll bet most everything in its price point is transformerless. So the real competition will be mics like the Soyuz su-013, which btw costs 60% more. What are the Warbler 127's going for these days? www.zzounds.com/item--MXLV67N
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Post by ragan on Feb 10, 2019 13:16:38 GMT -6
I think the KM84 estimates are skewing way low and way high. Normal price for a KM84 in good working order without significant cosmetic damage is about $1100 USD from what I've seen over the last couple of years.
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Post by M57 on Feb 10, 2019 13:56:41 GMT -6
After flirting with LDCs recording my piano I've gone back to my NT5's. I'm using the Jolly caps and though they make an improvement, overall it's just OK. I'm looking for even better. A pair of the MXL's for $200 isn't going to do that, are they? NT-5's go for $400/matched pair these days. I'm not unhappy with the NT-5's; I just don't want to move sideways. I'm just trying to gauge if I should be considering a "next level." set of mics. I'd like to avoid spending $1000+ for a pair of something like the Soyuz SU-013s or KM-184s, and I've been hoping that this new generation of SDCs (like the 3U or the Warm) represent a substantial upgrade at a similar price-point.
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Post by drbill on Feb 10, 2019 13:58:39 GMT -6
I think the KM84 estimates are skewing way low and way high. Normal price for a KM84 in good working order without significant cosmetic damage is about $1100 USD from what I've seen over the last couple of years. This is pretty much right on....
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Post by sirthought on Feb 10, 2019 14:34:03 GMT -6
After flirting with LDCs recording my piano I've gone back to my NT5's. I'm using the Jolly caps and though they make an improvement, overall it's just OK. I'm looking for even better. A pair of the MXL's for $200 isn't going to do that, are they? NT-5's go for $400/matched pair these days. I'm not unhappy with the NT-5's; I just don't want to move sideways. I'm just trying to gauge if I should be considering a "next level." set of mics. I'd like to avoid spending $1000+ for a pair of something like the Soyuz SU-013s or KM-184s, and I've been hoping that this new generation of SDCs (like the 3U or the Warm) represent a substantial upgrade at a similar price-point. These would be a step up in my opinion. I guess how much of one is debatable. I use a pair of Oktava MK012 that Joly modded and I love them for drum overheads and acoustics. reverb.com/item/9868329-beyerdynamic-mc930-cardioid-condenser-mic-stereo-setreverb.com/item/842348-akg-c451b-st-c451bst-stereo-matched-pair-small-diaphragm-condenser-microphone
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Post by Ward on Feb 10, 2019 14:57:12 GMT -6
I think many would do well to read the Neumann KM84 threads here to gain perspective on the sound, value and applications of them . . . and then look at the clones.
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Post by ragan on Feb 10, 2019 15:21:34 GMT -6
I think many would do well to read the Neumann KM84 threads here to gain perspective on the sound, value and applications of them . . . and then look at the clones. Indeed. And also listen to the shootouts of KM84 vs _____ that are plentiful here and elsewhere. Especially when they’re blind. Take the mythology out and get at the actual performance. A legendary mic that’s earned its status will show it, sonically.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2019 15:44:23 GMT -6
I don't doubt a good real 84 is great, but given their cost and the reality of people I know who waxed philosophic, had them , but then sold them: that gives me pause.
A good sounding lower cost option has its own appeal.
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Post by jakeharris on Feb 10, 2019 15:50:36 GMT -6
I think the KM84 estimates are skewing way low and way high. Normal price for a KM84 in good working order without significant cosmetic damage is about $1100 USD from what I've seen over the last couple of years. Over 1000 is too much. Sellers will keep trying to push prices up, but currently $900 is fair. Keep your eye on ebay ( M57 ) and they'll show up for a lot less too: realgearonline.com/post/154950/thread
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Post by drbill on Feb 10, 2019 16:00:29 GMT -6
I don't doubt a good real 84 is great, but given their cost and the reality of people I know who waxed philosophic, had them , but then sold them: that gives me pause. A good sounding lower cost option has its own appeal. Hahaaaa! I don't know anyone who has sold them except our fearless leader, and he's sold tons of stuff that he's LOVED. And bought it again.... LOL (all in good humor JK) The 84 is a workhorse, that's reasonably priced, and one that many studio's need 4+ of. Lower cost always has greater appeal. Unfortunately, up to this point, there's never been a 1 = 1 equivalent. Given that, and given that the price is not $10-15k like some vintage mics, the $1100-1200 seems quite reasonable (IMO)
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Warm WA-84
Feb 10, 2019 17:14:33 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2019 17:14:33 GMT -6
Oh I don’t disagree that 84= value but again for me in cdn$, we are talking upwards of 3 grand for used mikes that may need work: you never know till you hsve them ?
I just find that’s a stretch ?
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Post by ragan on Feb 10, 2019 17:25:02 GMT -6
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Post by drsax on Feb 10, 2019 17:29:29 GMT -6
I bought a pair of Soyuz 013’s during the holidays on sale plus a 15% coupon for a total of $929 shipped. Even at full price ($1200 for a stereo matched pair) I’d buy the Soyuz over the Warm any day. The Soyuz are built like tanks and sound phenomenal. I’ve used them so far on Nylon string Gtr and drum overheads and they sound outstanding. A great addition to my mic locker. I’d love a pair of km84’s but not for the price they are selling for right now. Neumann ought to reissue them. Silly that they haven’t...
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Post by ragan on Feb 10, 2019 17:35:31 GMT -6
I bought a pair of Soyuz 013’s during the holidays on sale plus a 15% coupon for a total of $929 shipped. Even at full price ($1200 for a stereo matched pair) I’d buy the Soyuz over the Warm any day. The Soyuz are built like tanks and sound phenomenal. I’ve used them so far on Nylon string Gtr and drum overheads and they sound outstanding. A great addition to my mic locker. I’d love a pair of km84’s but not for the price they are selling for right now. Neumann ought to reissue them. Silly that they haven’t... Dang, that's amazing that you got an advance pair of the WA-84s to form an opinion with!
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Post by wiz on Feb 10, 2019 17:36:13 GMT -6
Buy a good 84 , put it through a decent preamp, point it in the general direction of something, hit record...... hit stop... hit play....
Never worry about clones of it again...
8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by drsax on Feb 10, 2019 17:48:00 GMT -6
I bought a pair of Soyuz 013’s during the holidays on sale plus a 15% coupon for a total of $929 shipped. Even at full price ($1200 for a stereo matched pair) I’d buy the Soyuz over the Warm any day. The Soyuz are built like tanks and sound phenomenal. I’ve used them so far on Nylon string Gtr and drum overheads and they sound outstanding. A great addition to my mic locker. I’d love a pair of km84’s but not for the price they are selling for right now. Neumann ought to reissue them. Silly that they haven’t... Dang, that's amazing that you got an advance pair of the WA-84s to form an opinion with! lol... just not a fan of the Warm gear. Most of it sounds off to me. Their Build quality has not impressed me. There are some good options within a couple hundred bucks of the Warm including the Warblers you love which are very affordable. I’d be much more inclined to go that way even than the warm. Maybe I’ll eat my words at some point and try the Warm... but probably not The Soyuz have calmed my KM84 itch for the time being at least
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Post by ragan on Feb 10, 2019 17:54:33 GMT -6
Dang, that's amazing that you got an advance pair of the WA-84s to form an opinion with! lol... just not a fan of the Warm gear. Most of it sounds off to me. Their Build quality has not impressed me. There are some good options within a couple hundred bucks of the Warm including the Warblers you love which are very affordable. I’d be much more inclined to go that way even than the warm. Maybe I’ll eat my words at some point and try the Warm... but probably not Fair enough <thumbsup>
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Post by M57 on Feb 10, 2019 18:08:55 GMT -6
OK I'll bite - Acoustic 1 sounds a bit strident to me in comparison.
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Post by Mister Chase on Feb 10, 2019 19:09:00 GMT -6
I'mma hazard me a guess raight 'chere.
Acoustic II is the KM84, 1 is the Warbler. To me, I am hearing more of that upper mids/highs touch of something Jenny-say-quat to it. Somethin' I rather enjoy.
Both pretty close, though. 1 seemed a little "faster" or more pokey on top. A little less interesting there. Don't care which is which as I have no dog in the fight.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921
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Post by ericn on Feb 10, 2019 19:37:27 GMT -6
I am wondering why someone would think they are getting a “real” c12 cap unless it was taken out of a real authentic Neumann or AKG mike? As far as I know, Tim make’s arguably the most authentic recreation of the original cap and then we have varying degrees of quality of reproduction of c12 caps from other parties, but technically one could say none of these are originals. So, I understood the Warm to have a cap in the c12 typology meaning a derivation of the original c12 made to a less expensive price point. I guess I don’t get the ‘false’ thing as unless you take a c12 cap out of an original mike no one has a real c12 ? Anyway, perhaps we can spin this out on a new thread and get back to discussing 84s? My understanding is that Tim makes a CK12 (reproduction of the original). Warm/Peluso/etc use a CEK12, which isn't built in the same way, but has a similar sound profile. At least until you hear a Peluso.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 11, 2019 8:53:50 GMT -6
I also would guess that Acousic II is the KM84
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Post by stormymondays on Feb 11, 2019 9:06:01 GMT -6
If Acoustic I happens to be the 84, they sent you a defective one when you tried it. Both mics would work, but Acoustic I has a fluttery quality that reminds me of my Joly modded Oktavas.
Or maybe I got a bad Warbler! It was bested by every SDC I had, including the cheap Avantone. After I sold it, the buyer put it up for sale as well...
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 12, 2019 7:16:06 GMT -6
An interesting quote from the GS wa84 thread:
"OK, so I got a chance to chat with Bryce at NAMM today. First off, what a super nice guy. We talked about the WA-84 and he told me that the capsule is interchangeable with an actual KM-84 capsule. So you can use the Neumann capsule if you have one or swap out your broken Neumann KM-84 capsule with theirs. I thought that was pretty cool. I know some of you were wondering about that.
Also, we talked a bit about the transformer, which is a Cinemag CM-5722. The way Bryce described how the Cinemag sounds as "a bit more focused" than the Haufe BV-107 in the Neumann KM84 he owns personally. That, of course, is not an uncommon observation when it comes to Cinemags in general. I didn't ask how "exact" the circuit was in comparison to the original, but again, the Km84 circuit is not terribly complicated so overall, it's not a longshot that the WM-84 will be another successful product for Warm.
And, no, I did not listen to the mic. It was set up, as were all their mics, but if you've ever been to NAMM, with the cacophonous background noise everywhere on the show floor, it's impossible to really hear what mics sound like."
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