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Post by soundintheround on Jan 18, 2019 14:31:34 GMT -6
Anything to consider when looking to buy a pair of Yamaha NS-10m? I'm leaning towards the 'Studio' version horizontal ones. I know they made these for quite a few years. Are they all equal in terms of sounding extra crappy?  Do they age well or anything to look out for? |
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 18, 2019 14:43:45 GMT -6
Avantone started making a new version that is CLA branded. I don't know if they modeled them after his or not, but I'm sure you could find that out. I would honestly buy those instead of the others, I'm sure they sound spot on. I believe even Sweetwater sells the drivers as drop in replacements for original NS-10m's. They're hell of a lot cheaper too. I used to believe in them, but since the modern stereo world and earbud/beats over ear sensation came out I honestly didn't have use for them anymore. It used to be if your mix sounded decent on them it'd sound great everywhere else, these days with car systems, earbuds and the highly detailed over ears are how people listen to music they're not logical. Honestly you'd be better going and spending the money on a little bluetooth speaker, the ones at Walmart, the 808 mono one that's like $20 will be totally fine. Other than that I would look into Focal, Amphion etc. speakers to get a good reference as that's what is in most of the studios around town now, and ATC if you have that kind of budget.
Long story short, it's got to a point where you need to make your mix sound good on a set of monitors that portray the full spectrum and are good at relaying dynamics and transient detail.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 18, 2019 15:04:52 GMT -6
Considering namm is right around the corner, I’d wait.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 18, 2019 15:16:36 GMT -6
There's a thread on the purple site called Amphions Beautiful that's been running for quite some time. I liken Amphions to NS-10's. They're not particularly fun to listen to, but they give you what you've got. And that relates to a better overall mix. Which is no doubt why folks like them. I own Amphions.
I'd say that NS 10's are the same concept. If you want to work, buy ugly speakers. If you want to enjoy, buy something that is easy to listen to.
I think any NS-10 will give you a good result. Same as Amphions. A lot of it depends on the amp which changes everything for any passive speaker.
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 18, 2019 16:57:00 GMT -6
I have a pair of large 3-way speakers which fill the room and still sound pretty accurate. (With the help of Sonarworks Reference 4)
I also have a single mono Avantone speaker to check things on.
But.... still kinda want a pair of the classic NS-10m.
#1 - I feel I've gone this long in my recording journey (10+ years) and its just damn time.
#2 - I would like to learn those speakers specifically, in the chance I am in another studio with them, then I understand what they should sound like.
#3 - I make alot of 60's/70's influenced type stuff. I'm not sure those even came out until the 70's, but I feel my tracks should sound good through those speakers for some reason. I understand the times are changing and not relevant as they once were, but honestly I don't care and I'm stuck in my own little world of retro sounds/tones.
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Post by aremos on Jan 18, 2019 17:01:28 GMT -6
My 80's NS-10's still work fine & still in good condition
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 18, 2019 18:44:04 GMT -6
I have a pair of large 3-way speakers which fill the room and still sound pretty accurate. (With the help of Sonarworks Reference 4) I also have a single mono Avantone speaker to check things on. But.... still kinda want a pair of the classic NS-10m. #1 - I feel I've gone this long in my recording journey (10+ years) and its just damn time. #2 - I would like to learn those speakers specifically, in the chance I am in another studio with them, then I understand what they should sound like. #3 - I make alot of 60's/70's influenced type stuff. I'm not sure those even came out until the 70's, but I feel my tracks should sound good through those speakers for some reason. I understand the times are changing and not relevant as they once were, but honestly I don't care and I'm stuck in my own little world of retro sounds/tones. Well, if you just have to have them..... I would watch Reverb.com and E(vil)bay for a pair of Studio's with consecutive serials if you really want to shoot for what we used to look for. Make sure they're shipping from the US not Japan and read the description really well before buying. Some cones might have a yellowish look, that generally ok? But, I would really want them with nice white cones. When it comes to amps any decent studio grade will do. Also if it's on Ebay just make sure the seller has a great rating, most likely you'll get a pair from a studio liquidation. Again I can't stress enough, if it were me and I had the bug to get a set of those I'd buy the Avatones, if Sweetwater is selling the drivers as drop in replacements they must be exactly like plain NS10's. You're going to pay for an original set, I'd imagine between $800 and $1,500 for a good pair, maybe more. Everyone see's them in the big control rooms and equates them with the quality of the API or SSL console they're sitting on, so they are willing to shell out big money for them. Now, if you're in another studio that has them with a pair of barefoots, Focal's, Amphions, ATC's etc. beside them, and you switch over to them and all the guys in the room look at you like you're nuts, just smile and say exactly this.. "Oh haha man, you still have them wired in! Just checking, I always do that" 8) I kid I kid. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,919 
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Post by ericn on Jan 19, 2019 0:34:46 GMT -6
Knowing how poorly built the originals are my first thought is if that’s the sound you want it really doesn’t matter just buy the cheapest pair.
On the other hand granted a matched pair of NS10’s is an oxymoron, the chances of really finding a pair that hasn’t been abused and had at least one driver replaced is almost impossible unless you know the original owner.
I’d listen to JK, but then I could never listen to NS10’s, and yeah I sold a truck full.
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Post by mhbunch on Jan 19, 2019 1:42:08 GMT -6
Love my pair. Got them insanely cheap on Craigslist a few years ago, I still see them on there around $400/pair fairly regularly.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 19, 2019 8:09:48 GMT -6
I split my time between my Barefoots and my 10’s. I don’t think anything reveals the mids and the vocal level relationship to the rest of the track like 10’s do.
You can find pairs of them for $650 - just be patient. Immediately toss the drivers and put new ones in. The newer tweeter with the foam surround works better for me, but some like the old ones.
I got a boatload of drivers before the price skyrocketed, so I’m pretty set for life as far as that goes. The transient response seems to dip dramatically after about 3 years of daily use. One of those things where you wouldn’t notice unless you blew one side and replaced it - the difference is astounding.
The amp you use matters big time. I have them hooked up with a McIntosh 2105 and they sound great for how I use them.. Never understood all the hate. If you turn them down WAY low they can reveal things many other speakers don’t.
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Post by christopher on Jan 19, 2019 8:47:36 GMT -6
I like my 10s. When I think about it, I been happiest when I only use 1 speaker, and do all my stereo stuff on something else. I think it’s because what I really need from 10s can be accomplished off-axis on a single speaker, it tells me if something is weird. I’ll keep the speaker aimed slightly away from my ears, or move it all around, listen from the back/ the side. I’ll sometimes put it on the floor and tip it back. But usually it’s instant what it tells me I need to do. For stereo I need to be in the focal point, that’s where my ears fatigue fast on 10s and then I just start screwing things up. I love 10s in the focal point, just have to work very fast.
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kasroc
Junior Member
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Post by kasroc on Jan 19, 2019 20:12:22 GMT -6
I had a pair of ns10 studios a few years back and sold them. Think I paid $700 or so. It’s true you need a really good amp to drive them. The classic Bryston/ns10 combo works. I had the smaller 2B Bryston and it really wasn’t enough. You need something with lots of headroom to really drive them, but obviously being careful not to blow them up. I used an old Sansui BA3000 that I had restored. Pretty stellar. I still use that amp today, but with my Tannoy LGMs. When I think back now I feel the ns10 thing is kinda overrated. I also never liked the tweeters. Some guys even put tape over those cause they can be so shrill.
Good luck.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 20, 2019 13:44:36 GMT -6
I used the original NS-10's for a decade, back in the late 80's. I prefer the Studio version, it's less fatiguing. I mixed at least 100 radio and TV commercials on them and never had a conflict with the sound when it was broadcast, so the NS-10's really did do what they were famous for, being the most useful benchmark for compatibility with various broadcast and playback situations.
I stopped producing over a decade ago, and only came back to recording music six years ago. After going through, KRK's, Yamaha 5", Adam Audio A7X's, and I settled on the lovely Avantone Abbey's, Unfortunately, I had to sell them. A friend loaned me his old NS-10 Studio's, and I bought a modded Adcom amp to pair it with. I had Adcom back in the day, so I figured it was a good match.
I mixed my recent album on them, and it holds up well on many sources. Bottom line, they still work. It's not as detailed and depth is not great, but it works.
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 23, 2019 19:53:58 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice (and subtle heads up on the new avantones)
To be honest I love when new clones come out! The price of the originals usually drops a bunch for at least a few years. Its the only reason i could have ever afforded my pair of UA 1176s and LA-2A.
I find once everyone eventually realizes that the clone is cool and sounds nice, but really not the real deal and the sound you hear on top records... the price eventually goes back up.
Seems like the NS-10m Studio is in a null right now. Time to buy!
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Post by swurveman on Jan 24, 2019 9:40:44 GMT -6
There's a thread on the purple site called Amphions Beautiful that's been running for quite some time. I liken Amphions to NS-10's. They're not particularly fun to listen to, but they give you what you've got. And that relates to a better overall mix. Which is no doubt why folks like them. I own Amphions. I'd say that NS 10's are the same concept. If you want to work, buy ugly speakers. If you want to enjoy, buy something that is easy to listen to. I think any NS-10 will give you a good result. Same as Amphions. A lot of it depends on the amp which changes everything for any passive speaker. I have a pair of NS10M's. They are great for their raised mid range, good reproduction of transients and the high end roll off. I can never just work on the NS10's due to it being difficult to hear the low end. Are the Amphions any better for hearing the low end than the NS10's. I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money and still have to have another set of speakers for the low end. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 31, 2019 16:00:59 GMT -6
There's a thread on the purple site called Amphions Beautiful that's been running for quite some time. I liken Amphions to NS-10's. They're not particularly fun to listen to, but they give you what you've got. And that relates to a better overall mix. Which is no doubt why folks like them. I own Amphions. I'd say that NS 10's are the same concept. If you want to work, buy ugly speakers. If you want to enjoy, buy something that is easy to listen to. I think any NS-10 will give you a good result. Same as Amphions. A lot of it depends on the amp which changes everything for any passive speaker. I have a pair of NS10M's. They are great for their raised mid range, good reproduction of transients and the high end roll off. I can never just work on the NS10's due to it being difficult to hear the low end. Are the Amphions any better for hearing the low end than the NS10's. I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money and still have to have another set of speakers for the low end. Not good at low end at all. I have to use a sub and it took me ages to dial it in to the right volume and cutoff. But once I did, it's magic. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 31, 2019 20:49:59 GMT -6
There's a thread on the purple site called Amphions Beautiful that's been running for quite some time. I liken Amphions to NS-10's. They're not particularly fun to listen to, but they give you what you've got. And that relates to a better overall mix. Which is no doubt why folks like them. I own Amphions. I'd say that NS 10's are the same concept. If you want to work, buy ugly speakers. If you want to enjoy, buy something that is easy to listen to. I think any NS-10 will give you a good result. Same as Amphions. A lot of it depends on the amp which changes everything for any passive speaker. That's funny, I heard the Amphions a few years ago, and I commented they remixed me of NS-10's, in exactly the way you mentioned. I took some heat for that, but stood by my evaluation. |
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Post by drbill on Feb 1, 2019 0:11:01 GMT -6
But.... still kinda want a pair of the classic NS-10m. #1 - I feel I've gone this long in my recording journey (10+ years) and its just damn time. #2 - I would like to learn those speakers specifically, in the chance I am in another studio with them, then I understand what they should sound like. #3 - I make alot of 60's/70's influenced type stuff. I'm not sure those even came out until the 70's, but I feel my tracks should sound good through those speakers for some reason. I understand the times are changing and not relevant as they once were, but honestly I don't care and I'm stuck in my own little world of retro sounds/tones. Haha!! Get em and work on em for awhile and see how they work out for you. I can mix on the NS10's just fine. Used em almost exclusively for....almost 10 years. And then you know what finally happened? I woke up one morning, walked into the studio and said - It's just damn time. I was done with them. Hated mixing, hated listening to music, and just didn't want to mix again. So I offed them and never listened to another pair again. Better days!!! Honestly, even though I can turn out good mixes on them, I do hate em. They seem to be very polarizing in the respect. Mixers usually love or hate em. But certainly you don't need em for 60/70's stuff. You can use any speaker. Your production technique, arrangements and musicianship is infinitely more important. My advice to anyone thinking about a speaker is to try them first. Not one size fits all. And if you do buy them, put an amazing amp on them (I used Pacific Innovative Mono Blocks which were VERY awesome - and pricey) and it changes the experience substantially. Although they will always be NS-10's. I LOVE these NS-10 threads. LOL Cheers guys! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 1, 2019 8:34:09 GMT -6
Avantone has made a CLA-10 that has the power amp built in. I had their Abbey's and the power amps were great, everything you could ask for. So I trust they'd do a great amp match for their NS-10 recreation.
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Post by soundintheround on Feb 1, 2019 11:11:21 GMT -6
I got em. I like em Not sure what all the fuss is about them sounding so harsh? Mine don't at all. Maybe because it is the NS-10m Studio version? I have them sitting upright (due to my particular setup) but never seemed to prefer speakers sideways, at least for my ears. I have the cones at ears height and spaced not too far apart. The mids are so clear and accurate it was honestly kinda emotional listening to music on them for the first time. Can really connect with the singer and the song in those particular frequencies. Like a magnifying glass for me really could concentrate on the vocal. It seems like references mixes I have come to enjoy all sound good through them (mids are very clear), whereas songs that I always thought are not mixed as well kinda have a more cloudy mid representation, and its much more obvious on them vs my larger monitors. Sure the lows are a little weak, but they aren't as bad as I was expecting them to be. Maybe where I have them (on a solid wood desk sandwiched between 2 other big monitors, gives them a little low end boost).... I don't plan to get a sub for now but rather just use my big 3-way monitors for that. |
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Post by svart on Feb 1, 2019 11:23:33 GMT -6
I got some ns10-t's for practically nothing on eBay and they sound identical to M's.
People swear they're different, so I swapped the crossover on one and compared..
No difference.
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Post by soundintheround on Feb 1, 2019 11:29:00 GMT -6
If you read it on Gearslutz then it must be true!
Are those the ones with the wood finish? Pretty nice looking if so.
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Post by svart on Feb 1, 2019 11:43:15 GMT -6
If you read it on Gearslutz then it must be true! Are those the ones with the wood finish? Pretty nice looking if so. I painted mine.. lol |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 18, 2019 13:57:22 GMT -6
While you're at it, you'll need a power amp. My friend just asked me to return the NS-10's he'd loaned me, so I'm selling my modded/upgraded Adcom power amp that I used with them. I've tried many different power amps, and believe me, nothing paired better than the Adcom. here's the link: realgearonline.com/thread/9613/adcom-gfa-power-modded-upgraded |
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