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Post by keymod on Jan 15, 2019 4:29:57 GMT -6
Anyone here still using a tape machine, either for nostalgic reasons or otherwise? If so, what do you have? I have an Otari MK5050VIII 1/2" eight track and an Otari MTR-12 with 1/2" & 1/4" heads/tape paths. I realize that in a strictly professional situation they may not be practical any more, but I enjoy the process and like watching the machines do their thing. Of course, there are drawbacks but I'm glad that I still have the option.
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Post by peterhess on Jan 15, 2019 8:13:43 GMT -6
I’m following here... I’m old enough to have done plenty of sessions to tape, and remember very clearly the first session we did radically going digital, recording to Betamax (in a room full of Buchlas!) My own little room is hybrid, everything goes out to hardware and returns summed, etc etc. My interest in tape machines is primarily learning and interest, but here’s a question: does anyone here run digitally captured sessions, mix hybrid, and then print to tape? If so, do you then print back to digital, or deliver tape for mastering? Followup- what’s a solid 2 track to print to that can be self-maintained but of high enough quality to yield a musical result, ie: worth the trouble? I realize what I’m suggesting is a bit of a headache. But I’m also looking to just learn something. Curious. Thanks all.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2019 8:14:21 GMT -6
There’s an Ampex 440-8 and 440-1/4in 2 track here that still need some work a Revox A-77 and my very first Akai Reel deck, almost bit on a Ampex 1200 2 track but really don’t need another expensive project!
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Post by EmRR on Jan 15, 2019 8:20:18 GMT -6
There’s a Studer A807 1/4” here that needs a new home, I rarely have anyone want to use it for mix. Still have the TEAC A3340S my band was using before the first ADAT came out. We synced it for another 3 tracks a few times, that’s disturbing to watch.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2019 8:44:05 GMT -6
There’s a Studer A807 1/4” here that needs a new home, I rarely have anyone want to use it for mix. Still have the TEAC A3340S my band was using before the first ADAT came out. We synced it for another 3 tracks a few times, that’s disturbing to watch. ADAT & Sync, how Webster’s defines contradiction!
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 15, 2019 10:19:18 GMT -6
There’s a Studer A807 1/4” here that needs a new home, I rarely have anyone want to use it for mix. Still have the TEAC A3340S my band was using before the first ADAT came out. We synced it for another 3 tracks a few times, that’s disturbing to watch. Man Id use that all the time to send drums too and back. I LOVED doing that to the a810 we had. The a807 was cool to do a tape delay loop on for the EMT140
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Post by EmRR on Jan 15, 2019 10:36:20 GMT -6
There’s a Studer A807 1/4” here that needs a new home, I rarely have anyone want to use it for mix. Still have the TEAC A3340S my band was using before the first ADAT came out. We synced it for another 3 tracks a few times, that’s disturbing to watch. Man Id use that all the time to send drums too and back. Yeah, no one cares, nor wants to pay for any extra time for anything. Matters a lot less when using the sort of ancient squishy preamps I have.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 15, 2019 10:39:20 GMT -6
Man Id use that all the time to send drums too and back. Yeah, no one cares, nor wants to pay for any extra time for anything. Matters a lot less when using the sort of ancient squishy preamps I have. thats a shame. Id love a a810. But no way to justify it at all.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Jan 15, 2019 11:00:17 GMT -6
Ampex ATR 102 with 1/2" and 1/4" heads. Gets regular use for tape layback mastering. Clients love the sound. Occasionally a client will bring mixes on tape for mastering.
Otari MX-80 2" 24 track. Gets regular use for tracking rhythm sections before transferring to PT for OD/mix.
The fact that I maintain these machines is a significant draw for clients.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Jan 15, 2019 11:05:29 GMT -6
... here’s a question: does anyone here run digitally captured sessions, mix hybrid, and then print to tape? If so, do you then print back to digital, or deliver tape for mastering? I have one regular client who records to PT, mixes through an analog console and prints to 1/2" tape, then brings the reels for mastering. Awesome sound.
I'm not aware of anyone who prints back to digital before mastering but I'm sure they're out there somewhere.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 15, 2019 11:12:32 GMT -6
I'm not aware of anyone who prints back to digital before mastering but I'm sure they're out there somewhere.
I hear about that a lot. I guess it's an assumption about machine alignments that drives that.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2019 11:14:25 GMT -6
There’s a Studer A807 1/4” here that needs a new home, I rarely have anyone want to use it for mix. Still have the TEAC A3340S my band was using before the first ADAT came out. We synced it for another 3 tracks a few times, that’s disturbing to watch. It’s funny how many Studers and Ampex machines end up in the hands of hipsters who have no idea the work involved in keeping them working correctly! There is a guy here in KC with a bunch of A3340’s synchronized, I can’t imagine working that way! It’s like dude if you want to go analog buy a real machine life would be so much easier!
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Post by EmRR on Jan 15, 2019 11:16:37 GMT -6
There’s a Studer A807 1/4” here that needs a new home, I rarely have anyone want to use it for mix. Still have the TEAC A3340S my band was using before the first ADAT came out. We synced it for another 3 tracks a few times, that’s disturbing to watch. It’s funny how many Studers and Ampex machines end up in the hands of hipsters who have no idea the work involved in keeping them working correctly! There is a guy here in KC with a bunch of A3340’s synchronized, I can’t imagine working that way! It’s like dude if you want to go analog buy a real machine life would be so much easier! That's totally insane. I give more credence to the guy who made an 8 track wire recorder.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 15, 2019 11:18:08 GMT -6
... here’s a question: does anyone here run digitally captured sessions, mix hybrid, and then print to tape? If so, do you then print back to digital, or deliver tape for mastering? I have one regular client who records to PT, mixes through an analog console and prints to 1/2" tape, then brings the reels for mastering. Awesome sound.
I'm not aware of anyone who prints back to digital before mastering but I'm sure they're out there somewhere.
I printed to digital after printing to tape. Just for archival reasons. I would love to run Tape machines myself. Not the cliental for that though.
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Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2019 11:50:09 GMT -6
Personally, I'm glad to be done with tape machines. I have a nostalgia sometimes for the sound, but not enough to buy, maintain, and run them. I'm more than happy to see that era fade away.... I will say though that mixing hybrid removes a lot of the "digititus" that tape also removes. If I was running straight plugins, then yeah, maybe I'd yearn more for tape. But I lived thru the era, and the 1-3 alignments a day and $500 tech calls every other week. Happy to have moved on....
I'm with Doug. If you have the right gear for tracking / mixing, the allure of tape diminishes quite substantially.
Many people thing "tape alone" is the sound of that era, but there are so many other variables that add into it : musicianship philosophy, arrangements, mic bleed, consoles, outboard, discrete electronic stages, etc., etc.. All of those are easily implemented without tape, and take you the majority of the distance if you're willing to go there.
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Post by notneeson on Jan 15, 2019 11:51:09 GMT -6
Have access to an mm1200 converted to 16 track. Sounds great but I can barely get people to pay for the higher cost of that room without the added cost.
I would echo Doug that, a lot of what people are looking for you can get out of the right preamps. (In my case Neve, API, Trident, Spectra Sonics, Quad Eight, and various clones depending on where I'm tracking).
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2019 12:08:59 GMT -6
It’s funny how many Studers and Ampex machines end up in the hands of hipsters who have no idea the work involved in keeping them working correctly! There is a guy here in KC with a bunch of A3340’s synchronized, I can’t imagine working that way! It’s like dude if you want to go analog buy a real machine life would be so much easier! That's totally insane. I give more credence to the guy who made an 8 track wire recorder. Yeah I haven’t met the guy, but from what I hear he’s more of a guy who owned a building who’s a musician who wanted to be a producer who will talk about the aesthetic than the fact his first one was cheap. Personally I’d rather Ethan’s sound blaster.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 15, 2019 12:11:32 GMT -6
Personally, I'm glad to be done with tape machines. I have a nostalgia sometimes for the sound, but not enough to buy, maintain, and run them. I'm more than happy to see that era fade away.... I will say though that mixing hybrid removes a lot of the "digititus" that tape also removes. If I was running straight plugins, then yeah, maybe I'd yearn more for tape. But I lived thru the era, and the 1-3 alignments a day and $500 tech calls every other week. Happy to have moved on.... I'm with Doug. If you have the right gear for tracking / mixing, the allure of tape diminishes quite substantially. Many people thing "tape alone" is the sound of that era, but there are so many other variables that add into it : musicianship philosophy, arrangements, mic bleed, consoles, outboard, discrete electronic stages, etc., etc.. All of those are easily implemented without tape, and take you the majority of the distance if you're willing to go there. I long for the way we worked in the days of tape, than I do for tape. I miss musicians working to get it right rather than asking if I could fix it.
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Post by drbill on Jan 15, 2019 12:22:43 GMT -6
Personally, I'm glad to be done with tape machines. I have a nostalgia sometimes for the sound, but not enough to buy, maintain, and run them. I'm more than happy to see that era fade away.... I will say though that mixing hybrid removes a lot of the "digititus" that tape also removes. If I was running straight plugins, then yeah, maybe I'd yearn more for tape. But I lived thru the era, and the 1-3 alignments a day and $500 tech calls every other week. Happy to have moved on.... I'm with Doug. If you have the right gear for tracking / mixing, the allure of tape diminishes quite substantially. Many people thing "tape alone" is the sound of that era, but there are so many other variables that add into it : musicianship philosophy, arrangements, mic bleed, consoles, outboard, discrete electronic stages, etc., etc.. All of those are easily implemented without tape, and take you the majority of the distance if you're willing to go there. I long for the way we worked in the days of tape, than I do for tape. I miss musicians working to get it right rather than asking if I could fix it. Yeah. I'd mix completely ITB if I could work that old school way again. Well...... Maybe.
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Post by christopher on Jan 15, 2019 13:29:41 GMT -6
I've done loopbacks a lot, but I'd prefer to just record onto the machine itself and maybe dump to digital after all the tracking. I have a MCI 2 track that I use for loopbacks, since I don't have the cash to fix my 24 track studer a80, or a real place to put it . I have it wrapped up in plastic, waiting for me to get a little ahead. They are my favorite sounds by far, but its work to get them running and keep them running. I spend lots of prep time, the night before I have to bake the test tape.. First I get the motors spinnning again by cleaning contacts and reseating cards, which on MCI is just how you turn it on. Then hours of tech time adjusting the bias and gain staging for best signal to noise to-from convertors for each channel. I do the test tape first and quickly,... then take it further watching sinewaves and sweeps on a loopback with a spectrum analyzer plugin. You can see the harmonic distortion frequencies in comparison to the fundamental, and also the hiss, so adjusting bias and gain you can find a place that is clean (low distortion/ low hiss/ somewhat strong signal) but still have decent highs, and I'll often use some additional EQ on the console to get some highs back. I use +9 tape, which the machine wasn't designed for, so its probably why the tweaking and console EQ really helps get more dynamic range. Doing this and looping back I can often get confused which is the digital and which is the tape version. Tape is always a little fatter and smoother, and MCI's always crunch the attack a little when pushed hard, sounds cool and "recorded". So rewarding when its all working right. Then by the end I'll spend maybe an hour running sound checks with a mic. And after all that work, hearing the sound checks gets me super excited because it sounds so awesome to me, then... time to go back to real life, with the promise of maybe trying to record again in 6 months.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 15, 2019 15:30:07 GMT -6
Speaking of tape, have peeps noticed the Mara released a free calibration tape app to celebrate their 10 year Annie! : how cool is that ??
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Post by spindrift on Jan 15, 2019 18:53:42 GMT -6
Get lots of requests for tape these days from bands with no budget.
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Post by winetree on Jan 15, 2019 20:41:28 GMT -6
The analog room has a Harrison Mr-4 hooked up to an Otari MTR-90 II 24 track and a Radar V recorder. Along with an Otari Mtr-10 for mix down, The Mtr-10 audio cards have been rebuilt and modified by Jim Williams. Both machines were bought new and maintained with very little trouble, and were just brought to factory specs. This allows Tracking to 2” and transfer to digital. There’s also a cassette and Dat tape recorder. The media room ( ITB room ) has an Otari 5050B, cassette, and DAT tape machines for tape transfers and all the digital stuff. As a collection there are various tape machines from the past including a couple wire recorders. I have Hundreds of reels of 2” tape, cassettes, Dat tapes, and reel to reels, and with all the recorded media to tape. I need the machines to play them. 50 Years of stuff.
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Post by damoongo on Jan 15, 2019 22:40:50 GMT -6
We run 16 track Ampex mm1200 and Scully 280 4 track here for different flavors. Picking off the repro head into protools on the fly for instant transfer. Punches and drop ins and overdubs can all be done "through" tape as well. We monitor off the repro so there is no guessing how hard your hitting tape etc. It's a great system that leaves me doing a lot less come mix time... I'm not sure I could live without it. I had my heads sent out for relap at JRF for a couple weeks, and it felt very strange!
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Post by spindrift on Jan 15, 2019 23:52:53 GMT -6
I long for the way we worked in the days of tape, than I do for tape. I miss musicians working to get it right rather than asking if I could fix it. Yeah. I'd mix completely ITB if I could work that old school way again. Well...... Maybe. There’s RADAR mode on a RADAR....24 tracks and you don’t even need a monitor if you keep track of the times.
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