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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 10, 2019 10:45:20 GMT -6
Just wondering what (and if) the next big innovation is?
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Post by drbill on Jan 10, 2019 10:57:46 GMT -6
Implementations of AI will be the next major force for DAW's....
Not looking forward to it really, but it's here and it's coming. I have a buddy whose business was acquired and he was tapped to be CEO of a big AI company. His net worth went up 10X instantaneously (mid 8 digits - WILD!). It's here. People are pouring HUGE amounts of money into it. Sigh.....
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 10, 2019 11:19:09 GMT -6
DAW that automatically uses Beat Detective on Jay Bellerose’s drum tracks?
🤮
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Post by Ward on Jan 10, 2019 11:33:21 GMT -6
But will we still be stuck in 24 bit PCM audio? No chance of moving to DSD? Or another higher resolution or better sounding audio format?
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Post by javamad on Jan 10, 2019 13:31:22 GMT -6
Maybe automatic control of interface pre levels from the daw first ..
Then in stage two a clippy type thing appears and says “You appear to be trying to record a blues track, would you like me to saturate the pres? .. oh and would you like me to delay the snare slightly for a more laid back feel? That drummer you hired is coming in early”
:-D
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Post by lpedrum on Jan 10, 2019 14:29:59 GMT -6
DAW that automatically uses Beat Detective on Jay Bellerose’s drum tracks? 🤮 I can't tell if that's a knock on Jay or if you're praising his feel and musicality! Here are a couple of things I'd like to see in DAWs: 1. Better plugins. Some work fine, but third party developers do so much better. It's always puzzled me why Steinberg or Avid don't go headhunting in the plugin world and up their game. 2. The Cloud. I use Cubase and I'd love it if it was designed with the built in ability to back up files directly to the cloud. I'd pay an annual fee for that. 3. Midi. I don't use midi a lot, but when I do I'm shocked at the limited dynamic range of it, especially with sampled pianos. Can't a DAW create something better or is it a "is what it is" thing?
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Post by popmann on Jan 10, 2019 14:50:32 GMT -6
Let me answer this by asking a question:
Option one: You have what amounts to the DAW you know, with the best sound available. And I mean ever. As in--it will likely need to run various bits asynchronously, but things will scale from 48khz to 384 and you will have NO choice in the matter. Third party plug ins will be DOA. Sure--AI assistance will help routine chores (Siri as assistant engineer)....serve as second ears....that CAN happen as part of this idea--or not. See next.
Option two: You have an app that you can input "ideas"....to start, you can just play a part of a song (or a whole song) on your instrument plus voice and select things like "put strings in the bridge"....but, also maybe you have an idea for those strings that amounts to a single melody line? You play that melody line....it orchestrates it and works the built in articulations to get a voice led ensemble playing "your idea plus what makes that actually sound like a string section".
While it's tempting for people to select "both, duh". It won't happen--for technical and marketing reasons. They work counter each other....so, you have to pick one, else someone WILL be better than you at doing it. Promise.
So, which do you pick? There's your answer.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 10, 2019 14:53:02 GMT -6
I'd love to see a big time new way of experiencing reality. I'd love for some kind of new DAW built on algo's that somehow immerse you and do it in a standard stereo environment.
Another thing I'd love to see is track suggestions. I know that's crazy to hear from a guy that just mixes, but, if a daw had something built into every individual channel kind of like Izotope does with the Master Assistant, but instead gives suggestions on guitars, snare drums, acoustic guitars, kick drums, keys etc. etc. and gives you a starting point. It would also be really cool if it was intuitive, where you get the suggestions, and you make your changes to fit how you want it to sound and the daw starts to learn how to set up the track as you do more and more. That would be really cool, and it would bring back personal feel because it would be personal, it would start giving suggestions based on your sound. Its just a way to move faster. It would help to mitigate the downgrade in how much we make per mix, letting us mix a lot more. I don't think we can demand the price go back up while producers now are doing everything from start to finish. It could cause the work to get spread out like it used to and more money could be made on volume. It would just come up with all types of things to apply to each track that gets it close to what you'd normally do. I can see something like that coming out really soon.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 10, 2019 15:01:25 GMT -6
Implementations of AI will be the next major force for DAW's.... Not looking forward to it really, but it's here and it's coming. I have a buddy whose business was acquired and he was tapped to be CEO of a big AI company. His net worth went up 10X instantaneously (mid 8 digits - WILD!). It's here. People are pouring HUGE amounts of money into it. Sigh..... Agreed. In some ways its already here.. But will we still be stuck in 24 bit PCM audio? No chance of moving to DSD? Or another higher resolution or better sounding audio format? Thats called Pryamix I use it every day. Though there isnt much argument for going beyond 24bit..32 bit is already here. No matter what that stuff isn't going to change until the consummation changes more. Which so far its not going to get better in terms of quality. Ease of access and quantity have won over majorly.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 10, 2019 15:12:41 GMT -6
DAW that automatically uses Beat Detective on Jay Bellerose’s drum tracks? 🤮 I can't tell if that's a knock on Jay or if you're praising his feel and musicality! Here are a couple of things I'd like to see in DAWs: 1. Better plugins. Some work fine, but third party developers do so much better. It's always puzzled me why Steinberg or Avid don't go headhunting in the plugin world and up their game. 2. The Cloud. I use Cubase and I'd love it if it was designed with the built in ability to back up files directly to the cloud. I'd pay an annual fee for that. 3. Midi. I don't use midi a lot, but when I do I'm shocked at the limited dynamic range of it, especially with sampled pianos. Can't a DAW create something better or is it a "is what it is" thing? I’m not sure if it’s possible to knock Jay haha - totally joking around
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 10, 2019 15:24:04 GMT -6
I'd love to see a big time new way of experiencing reality. I'd love for some kind of new DAW built on algo's that somehow immerse you and do it in a standard stereo environment. Another thing I'd love to see is track suggestions. I know that's crazy to hear from a guy that just mixes, but, if a daw had something built into every individual channel kind of like Izotope does with the Master Assistant, but instead gives suggestions on guitars, snare drums, acoustic guitars, kick drums, keys etc. etc. and gives you a starting point. It would also be really cool if it was intuitive, where you get the suggestions, and you make your changes to fit how you want it to sound and the daw starts to learn how to set up the track as you do more and more. That would be really cool, and it would bring back personal feel because it would be personal, it would start giving suggestions based on your sound. Its just a way to move faster. It would help to mitigate the downgrade in how much we make per mix, letting us mix a lot more. I don't think we can demand the price go back up while producers now are doing everything from start to finish. It could cause the work to get spread out like it used to and more money could be made on volume. It would just come up with all types of things to apply to each track that gets it close to what you'd normally do. I can see something like that coming out really soon. Oddly enough, that’s the exact thing that happens when you work with an actual producer. They suggest the band members, engineer, mixer, drum sounds, help sculpt the essence of a song into a fully realized product. And hopefully they do a good job at it and pick musicians to surround themselves with that are capable of also realizing the direction. Nobody needs a DAW to do that, they just need to surround themselves with others that share the same vision. I can’t imagine that any AI will ever give that same touch, because what is required is human emotions transferring into an instrument, which then plays off of another Human’s emotions and their instrument.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 10, 2019 15:25:54 GMT -6
Probably some sort of automatic rhythm section, like those "Trio" pedals that give you an instant backing track based on what you play on your guitar.
More CPU, less human feel in general. I view it as a negative trend.
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Post by jtc111 on Jan 10, 2019 15:40:10 GMT -6
Implementations of AI will be the next major force for DAW's.... Not looking forward to it really, but it's here and it's coming. I have a buddy whose business was acquired and he was tapped to be CEO of a big AI company. His net worth went up 10X instantaneously (mid 8 digits - WILD!). It's here. People are pouring HUGE amounts of money into it. Sigh..... We're already seeing plugins using AI of some fashion. The Sonible smart:EQ 2 is one I own and find very useful on some problematic tracks; however, it's not something I'd reach for if a track was recorded well from the get go. I think we'll start to see full channel strips using AI before too long where the AI will set level (maybe including some automation), eq, compression, de-esser, etc. And it probably won't be too long after that where folks will be able to input a reference track and have some AI program get their tracks pretty close to that mix, perhaps even incorporating mastering in the process and eliminating the need for that step.
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Post by adamjbrass on Jan 10, 2019 15:45:23 GMT -6
Teleportation Plug ins
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 10, 2019 15:45:27 GMT -6
A colostomy bag, so you edit for hours upon hours, uninterrupted by pesky trips to the toilet.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 10, 2019 16:03:22 GMT -6
I'd love to see a big time new way of experiencing reality. I'd love for some kind of new DAW built on algo's that somehow immerse you and do it in a standard stereo environment. Another thing I'd love to see is track suggestions. I know that's crazy to hear from a guy that just mixes, but, if a daw had something built into every individual channel kind of like Izotope does with the Master Assistant, but instead gives suggestions on guitars, snare drums, acoustic guitars, kick drums, keys etc. etc. and gives you a starting point. It would also be really cool if it was intuitive, where you get the suggestions, and you make your changes to fit how you want it to sound and the daw starts to learn how to set up the track as you do more and more. That would be really cool, and it would bring back personal feel because it would be personal, it would start giving suggestions based on your sound. Its just a way to move faster. It would help to mitigate the downgrade in how much we make per mix, letting us mix a lot more. I don't think we can demand the price go back up while producers now are doing everything from start to finish. It could cause the work to get spread out like it used to and more money could be made on volume. It would just come up with all types of things to apply to each track that gets it close to what you'd normally do. I can see something like that coming out really soon. Oddly enough, that’s the exact thing that happens when you work with an actual producer. They suggest the band members, engineer, mixer, drum sounds, help sculpt the essence of a song into a fully realized product. And hopefully they do a good job at it and pick musicians to surround themselves with that are capable of also realizing the direction. Nobody needs a DAW to do that, they just need to surround themselves with others that share the same vision. I can’t imagine that any AI will ever give that same touch, because what is required is human emotions transferring into an instrument, which then plays off of another Human’s emotions and their instrument. Well what I mean is producers who don't do what you're talking about and end up mixing and mastering songs that go directly to the label, that's happening right now in this town quite a bit and it's not going over too well with anyone in the business, from one end to other. Guitar, bass, keys, drummers etc. they're all being cut out along with the mixing and mastering engineers and the producer is doing it all, even digital editing. I don't think the bill to the record company is drastically cut either. You can hear it in the songs, it's plenty obvious when I'm listening to XM, when an artist comes on that had a one hat producer on, you can instantly hear it. Maybe if there was a way a lot of that was cut out, so the producer can make his cut and everyone else makes their cut, albeit a little lower of a cut but more volume you'd get the flavor along with the red meat being spread out. EDIT: It's also effecting songwriters as well. That same producer is on nearly all the writer credits. They'll pull a writer in yeah, but they take ALL the front end and also get a cut of the backend.
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Post by christopher on Jan 10, 2019 18:21:29 GMT -6
I'd be ok with a "producer AI" that suggests some mic placement tips and monitors the phase relationships between overheads and drums.
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Post by drbill on Jan 10, 2019 19:12:52 GMT -6
Oddly enough, that’s the exact thing that happens when you work with an actual producer. They suggest the band members, engineer, mixer, drum sounds, help sculpt the essence of a song into a fully realized product. And hopefully they do a good job at it and pick musicians to surround themselves with that are capable of also realizing the direction. Nobody needs a DAW to do that, they just need to surround themselves with others that share the same vision. I can’t imagine that any AI will ever give that same touch, because what is required is human emotions transferring into an instrument, which then plays off of another Human’s emotions and their instrument. Well what I mean is producers who don't do what you're talking about and end up mixing and mastering songs that go directly to the label, that's happening right now in this town quite a bit and it's not going over too well with anyone in the business, from one end to other. Guitar, bass, keys, drummers etc. they're all being cut out along with the mixing and mastering engineers and the producer is doing it all, even digital editing. I don't think the bill to the record company is drastically cut either. You can hear it in the songs, it's plenty obvious when I'm listening to XM, when an artist comes on that had a one hat producer on, you can instantly hear it. Maybe if there was a way a lot of that was cut out, so the producer can make his cut and everyone else makes their cut, albeit a little lower of a cut but more volume you'd get the flavor along with the red meat being spread out. EDIT: It's also effecting songwriters as well. That same producer is on nearly all the writer credits. They'll pull a writer in yeah, but they take ALL the front end and also get a cut of the backend. Are you guys really THAT far behind the rest of the industry?? Hahahaaaa!! Just kidding. But honestly, on the west coast, we've been there since the late 90's / early 00's. Most other areas of the country as well.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 10, 2019 19:37:26 GMT -6
Well what I mean is producers who don't do what you're talking about and end up mixing and mastering songs that go directly to the label, that's happening right now in this town quite a bit and it's not going over too well with anyone in the business, from one end to other. Guitar, bass, keys, drummers etc. they're all being cut out along with the mixing and mastering engineers and the producer is doing it all, even digital editing. I don't think the bill to the record company is drastically cut either. You can hear it in the songs, it's plenty obvious when I'm listening to XM, when an artist comes on that had a one hat producer on, you can instantly hear it. Maybe if there was a way a lot of that was cut out, so the producer can make his cut and everyone else makes their cut, albeit a little lower of a cut but more volume you'd get the flavor along with the red meat being spread out. EDIT: It's also effecting songwriters as well. That same producer is on nearly all the writer credits. They'll pull a writer in yeah, but they take ALL the front end and also get a cut of the backend. Are you guys really THAT far behind the rest of the industry?? Hahahaaaa!! Just kidding. But honestly, on the west coast, we've been there since the late 90's / early 00's. Most other areas of the country as well. Well, maybe it's because a ton of guys from the west coast and other areas moved in here the last 2 years, there's been a massive influx. But, they all came here to get work, be in the business, but the kind of business they're resorting to isn't what made Nashville and isn't what it is, I honestly believe it's a phase and I might be delusional, yes, but there are still a lot of people here who want the system back to the way it was. Takes a mile to turn an aircraft carrier and I know a lot of influential people have been voicing their opinions on this a lot here lately. We still rely heavily on the players union, so there is that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 20:44:48 GMT -6
Just wondering what (and if) the next big innovation is? Now there's a leading question I can't resist John. I think most of the DAW effort you're going to see will be targeted at amateurs and newbies (neither if those nouns is intended as an insult). These are the folks who are looking for a certain level of polish that they just don't know how to achieve. AI (or whatever you want to call it) will be helpful in that--especially if they want to sound like someone they admire. I can imagine there might be a few areas where AI can help a veteran, but for the most part I think what experienced people are looking for is a clean workflow and serious CPU power. Most of us grizzled old geezers still think we're smarter than the AI, and I think that's going to be true for a while longer. Last thing I want personally is my DAW making choices for me. I think what you're likely to see over the next few years is some serious market shakeout. There are a lot of DAWs all fighting for a chunk of market share when the market really isn't huge. While each one may have something to recommend it, I can't see all of them existing. When people collaborate more--as they seem to be doing--they want to standardize. If you use DAW XYZ and I use DAW ZYZ, then it's hard to get any work done. And TBH, I don't know that the winners of the shakeout will always be the most innovative. As a matter of fact, I think that a DAW will have a better chance to stand out when the user doesn't have to compare 15 of them.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 10, 2019 21:23:18 GMT -6
Oddly enough, that’s the exact thing that happens when you work with an actual producer. They suggest the band members, engineer, mixer, drum sounds, help sculpt the essence of a song into a fully realized product. And hopefully they do a good job at it and pick musicians to surround themselves with that are capable of also realizing the direction. Nobody needs a DAW to do that, they just need to surround themselves with others that share the same vision. I can’t imagine that any AI will ever give that same touch, because what is required is human emotions transferring into an instrument, which then plays off of another Human’s emotions and their instrument. Well what I mean is producers who don't do what you're talking about and end up mixing and mastering songs that go directly to the label, that's happening right now in this town quite a bit and it's not going over too well with anyone in the business, from one end to other. Guitar, bass, keys, drummers etc. they're all being cut out along with the mixing and mastering engineers and the producer is doing it all, even digital editing. I don't think the bill to the record company is drastically cut either. You can hear it in the songs, it's plenty obvious when I'm listening to XM, when an artist comes on that had a one hat producer on, you can instantly hear it. Maybe if there was a way a lot of that was cut out, so the producer can make his cut and everyone else makes their cut, albeit a little lower of a cut but more volume you'd get the flavor along with the red meat being spread out. EDIT: It's also effecting songwriters as well. That same producer is on nearly all the writer credits. They'll pull a writer in yeah, but they take ALL the front end and also get a cut of the backend. Producers have been cock-blocking Songwriters and Songs for decades. Musicians and engineers are just feeling the burn now. It’s been “I write knuckle dragged songs and they’re all better than yours...” and now it’s also, “I have a Kemper, Machine and Logic and I don’t need you anymore...” But...not knocking any of those lol...but mine is out of necessity. When I have the budget, I’d MUCH rather use experts.
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Post by jampa on Jan 10, 2019 21:41:58 GMT -6
The next DAW looks at your music career, empties your bank account, and ages you 15 years - saving you the time and energy
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Post by popmann on Jan 10, 2019 23:38:08 GMT -6
Grizzled vets are wondering what's been advancing over the last 10+ years in DAW software.
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Post by drbill on Jan 11, 2019 0:45:47 GMT -6
Are you guys really THAT far behind the rest of the industry?? Hahahaaaa!! Just kidding. But honestly, on the west coast, we've been there since the late 90's / early 00's. Most other areas of the country as well. Well, maybe it's because a ton of guys from the west coast and other areas moved in here the last 2 years, there's been a massive influx. But, they all came here to get work, be in the business, but the kind of business they're resorting to isn't what made Nashville and isn't what it is, I honestly believe it's a phase and I might be delusional, yes, but there are still a lot of people here who want the system back to the way it was. Takes a mile to turn an aircraft carrier and I know a lot of influential people have been voicing their opinions on this a lot here lately. We still rely heavily on the players union, so there is that. From my perspective, there's been a huge migration from the west coast to N'ville for 20 years. Probably longer. Maybe there's a 3rd wave that's hitting recently. I haven't been paying attention. But from my perspective, once something changes, it's never going back. Of course, just my perspective, but I gathered it over the years watching changes that hurt. I wouldn't be holding your breath, but I wish you all the best!!! <thumbsup>
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Post by viciousbliss on Jan 11, 2019 9:51:57 GMT -6
First we will see improvements in the plugins. Everyone has to push the limits of what the tech that works on these silicone computers can do. Wish I could say I know exactly what the limits are. We may be close to the limits now. Let's say Kurzweil is right and that AI passes the Turing Test by 2029. For us, that probably means AI could do at least a decent job on an audio production from start to finish by then. Meaning that it will analyze all the gear and software out there and learn how it applies to recordings that it hears. That's essentially what we do when we learn. And neuromorphic "learning" computers are progressing as we speak. Then quantum, dna, and some other new types of computing. All around the corner. If I had to guess, I would think the next big DAW evolution is going to be built around AI tech similar to something like Gulfoss or Smart Eq2 but 10x better. Could be from Google or Microsoft instead of Avid and Apple. The big selling point being that the average person could record something and have the AI do most of the work. At first it will provide instant gratification with stuff like pitch correction, timing, phase problems, drum replacement, and eq requiring no effort from the user to be done with precision. Then it will analyze whole songs, recreate each part separately from the rest of the mix, and allow users to instantly have that production. So if someone wants their song to sound like Darkside of the Moon, it will sound exactly like it came from that studio session. Or if they want Darkside of the Moon vocal production and Back in Black drums, it will combine them and make the necessary moves so it can happen on a technical level. Before it gets to that level, it may create algorithms based on someone like CLA. "Waves CLA AI Series: Over 100 Scenarios that give you the moves CLA would do instantly". It will analyze your raw recordings, then use the algorithm to make the moves it thinks CLA would do if he was there. At first, it may get users 70% of the way there. But eventually it'll be as if CLA was doing the mixing with you. The Waves Sig Series are kinda like an early form of this idea. Future computers are going to be capable of more than we can probably comprehend. Creating sounds we can't really envision right now. AI will also be a big thing for writing. At first it will suggest rudimentary ideas and then eventually be your perfect writing partner. Inevitably your computer will be writing hit songs for you tailored to your own taste and beyond. It's really a question of what degree of AI will be possible at what time. We've seen radical changes appear seemingly out of nowhere in the 90s. Just reading the newest reports on a site like Fanatical Futurist can make your head spin because there are so many things. So many ways researchers are trying to achieve the same goal. Here's an article about progress being made from current silicone computing: www.techradar.com/news/silicon-chips-are-reaching-their-limit-heres-the-futureIt's tough to say exactly what will be the next big thing in home computing or when it will hit, but I'm thinking something big happens between 2025-2029. Some people think stuff is back-loaded and all of a sudden we start seeing the radical changes after 2035. There's supposed to be a functional flying car in a few months from Terrafugia. Their website has a video of a guy flying something that looks like it's related to the flying car in Man With The Golden Gun. This is why I decided to get into UAD now and just see what I can do instead of waiting around. Might as well try to accomplish as much as I can while I'm still needed. See if I can figure out how to push the limits of this tech to get the best of classic and new sounds.
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