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Post by M57 on Dec 19, 2018 5:41:50 GMT -6
I don't listen to country radio ever, despite enjoying some country artists. Pretty much says it all.
Which has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with anything related to country music.
You might as well try to justify applying int to Indian Raga or Polish Polka.
I doesn't belong and it's destructive.
Because THAT AIN'T COUNTRY!
You might as well try to impose Heavy Metal on chamber music!
Reducing everything to a tasteless soup of homogenized samelessness is NOT an artistic achievement. It's the antethesis.
If you're an ignoramus.
What's that supposed to mean? That tastelessness and soullessness is the future of all art?
Are you friggen' serious?
No, it doesn't. Mashups are, at heart, not creative. It's just glomming on to whatever you think is popular at the moment. You're not speaking frrom the heart. It's not actually BEING CREATIVE.
Please understand that I mean nothing at all personal in this; you have just expressed an opinion that demonstrates no understanding of what's involved.
It's like I would try to pass off something as an Indian Raga.
sirthought After he insulted you he threw in a 'nothing personal' clause. Bullshit. My recommendation is that you avoid the frustration of spinning your wheels and don't even bother to respond to his rude diatribe. Too bad, because if he was civil, this could be cool discussion. Anyway, if I write posts like that I hope John kicks my ass out of here ..with a warning of course . Apparently, this guy is a "somebody" because he keeps getting invited back.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 19, 2018 5:53:31 GMT -6
Apparently, this guy is a "somebody" Nah. Just someone with impeccable taste.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 19, 2018 6:10:21 GMT -6
Well, I think we can all agree that nobody should ever be forced to play, or listen to a train beat in any form of music. Who’s with me?! Right guys???
...and can you believe they actually let drums in Country music these days? It’s still unbelievable to me that they would disgrace the Grand Ol Opery with a drum set. Bunch of animals banging and making a bunch of racket!!!!!!!!
And what’s with all these E9 tuned pedal steel guitars?? Bring back the C6 Western swing already! THATS really country!!
I am actually serious about the train beat though - perhaps I’ll start a Facebook group advocating a nationwide ban...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 6:20:55 GMT -6
This one is more seasonal:
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Post by Ward on Dec 19, 2018 6:37:56 GMT -6
...gigantic snip . . . focus groups.Focus groups? OMG, how early 90s. Are they really still using 'focus groups'?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 19, 2018 6:59:53 GMT -6
Here's a well done country / pop crossover tune. Johhny OK would probably consider it tasteless though.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 19, 2018 12:36:36 GMT -6
Here's a well done country / pop crossover tune. Johhny OK would probably consider it tasteless though. It's a good tune and great, dynamic singing. Would have been even better if it hadn't been so overcompressed though, the production leaves no room to let it breathe.
It's a far cry from that soft-pop "bro country" stuff.
You know, it's a funny thing - I often meet people who, when they find out that I play country music say they don't like country music, followed by the disclaimer "well, I like OLDER country music but I really don't like this modern pop country stuff...."
Drums have been around in country music for a long, long time, I don't get people who knock drums. And I don't care which neck the steel player uses as long as it sounds good.
And I REALLY don't understand this thing about train beats - it's been a part of country since the beginning - Hank Snow, Johnny Cash, so many others.
But some things just don't belong. Like bagpipes in chamber music.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 19, 2018 12:44:00 GMT -6
This one is more seasonal: Yeah, that was my band about 6 years ago, when I'd just started getting serious about singing. There's a lot of stuff on that record I'd like to rerecord, maybe someday. It pretty much sums up my feelings about the holiday season and is something of an antidote to all the saccharin crap we get bombarded with between November and January.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 19, 2018 13:40:08 GMT -6
Here's the kind of music I think Nashville does best and is distinctive to Nashville/Country Music.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 19, 2018 14:14:03 GMT -6
Well this thread inspired me to sing some Country songs tonight, at a local Pro Jam. Hopefully, "no snappin" will be a happenin' (Unless we do "King of the Road" for a snap-ahem-sing-along.)
When I get back, I'll listen to all the video clips... Chris
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 19, 2018 14:34:05 GMT -6
Apparently, this guy is a "somebody" Nah. Just someone with impeccable taste. Not sure what you mean by that.
As to the song - my rendition might sound a bit odd, timing wise, if you're used to listening to the Dwight Yoakam cover. There's a reason for that. Now, understand, I'm a big fan of Dwight Yoakam, to the point of covering three of his own songs in our 4 set list, but he actually kinda mucked that one up a little.
Here's the Johnny Horton original.
Wish I could find a rhythm section that could play like that...
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 19, 2018 14:35:41 GMT -6
Well this thread inspired me to sing some Country songs tonight, at a local Pro Jam. Hopefully, "no snappin" will be a happenin' (Unless we do "King of the Road" for a snap-ahem-sing-along.) When I get back, I'll listen to all the video clips... Chris That's an entirely different sort of "snap"...
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 19, 2018 14:56:31 GMT -6
Pretty much says it all.
Which has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with anything related to country music.
You might as well try to justify applying int to Indian Raga or Polish Polka.
I doesn't belong and it's destructive.
Because THAT AIN'T COUNTRY!
You might as well try to impose Heavy Metal on chamber music!
Reducing everything to a tasteless soup of homogenized samelessness is NOT an artistic achievement. It's the antethesis.
If you're an ignoramus.
What's that supposed to mean? That tastelessness and soullessness is the future of all art?
Are you friggen' serious?
No, it doesn't. Mashups are, at heart, not creative. It's just glomming on to whatever you think is popular at the moment. You're not speaking frrom the heart. It's not actually BEING CREATIVE.
Please understand that I mean nothing at all personal in this; you have just expressed an opinion that demonstrates no understanding of what's involved.
It's like I would try to pass off something as an Indian Raga.
sirthought After he insulted you he threw in a 'nothing personal' clause. Bullshit. My recommendation is that you avoid the frustration of spinning your wheels and don't even bother to respond to his rude diatribe. Too bad, because if he was civil, this could be cool discussion. Anyway, if I write posts like that I hope John kicks my ass out of here ..with a warning of course . Apparently, this guy is a "somebody" because he keeps getting invited back. There was nothing personal intended. I was speaking about a particular prevailing attitude in the industry that tends to make everything sound like a certain commercial "lowest commonm denominator".
In this case it what might be called "The urbanization of everything". It's fine for URBAN music to sound urban - it would be kinda silly if it wasn't. But it's just not right to urbanize country music. It's COUNTRY music, not urban music. It's fine to advance the music naturally, but when it starts destroying the character that makes country country don't you think it crosses a certain artistic line?
It's not like when Ray Charles did his famous country albums - he definitely suffused them with his own R&B soul, but he didn't attack the integrity of the music itself.
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 19, 2018 15:47:09 GMT -6
sirthought After he insulted you he threw in a 'nothing personal' clause. Bullshit. My recommendation is that you avoid the frustration of spinning your wheels and don't even bother to respond to his rude diatribe. Too bad, because if he was civil, this could be cool discussion. Anyway, if I write posts like that I hope John kicks my ass out of here ..with a warning of course . Apparently, this guy is a "somebody" because he keeps getting invited back. There was nothing personal intended. I was speaking about a particular prevailing attitude in the industry that tends to make everything sound like a certain commercial "lowest commonm denominator".
In this case it what might be called "The urbanization of everything". It's fine for URBAN music to sound urban - it would be kinda silly if it wasn't. But it's just not right to urbanize country music. It's COUNTRY music, not urban music. It's fine to advance the music naturally, but when it starts destroying the character that makes country country don't you think it crosses a certain artistic line?
It's not like when Ray Charles did his famous country albums - he definitely suffused them with his own R&B soul, but he didn't attack the integrity of the music itself.
You could have stated it like you just did, instead of making it sound so personally attacking. That’s how I read it.
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Post by drbill on Dec 19, 2018 16:08:40 GMT -6
I don't think it's the "beat" that's really ruining country music is it? Seems like it's been on decline due to the folks that make it (or perhaps produce or finance it) for a long time now. To blame a beat is kind of silly, no? Someone had to make the beat you know..... Songwriter, artist, producer, arranger, studio muso.... I mean, just my perspective from a decidedly outside the boundaries of Nashville musical mentality.
Are there ukulele's in country music yet? Heh heh
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 19, 2018 16:19:03 GMT -6
I love Merle, Hank, Cash etc., and I suspect that most of us here do. But I don't know what to make of what's coming out of Nashville these days. I have close friends that make a good living in that town, and we simply avoid the topic. And it's not my place to give them career advice, especially since they're more financially successful than me! But I'm pretty confident in saying this: 99% of what's produced in Nashville is not Country & Western music. It's Southern Conservative Pop. It's intentionally safe, bland, and corporate for a reason--to sell to its target audience. Rare Nashville artists like Chris Stapleton are sadly the exceptions that prove the rule. I don't disparage anyone that's making a living in Nashville. I don't live in their shoes, nor can I say that 100% of what I do is art for arts sake--we all have to pay our bills. But when it comes to Nashville pop music let just call it what it is, and not be surprised when it trips all over itself trying to chase a trend. Southern conservative pop. I’m stealing that.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 19, 2018 17:19:13 GMT -6
There was nothing personal intended. I was speaking about a particular prevailing attitude in the industry that tends to make everything sound like a certain commercial "lowest commonm denominator".
In this case it what might be called "The urbanization of everything". It's fine for URBAN music to sound urban - it would be kinda silly if it wasn't. But it's just not right to urbanize country music. It's COUNTRY music, not urban music. It's fine to advance the music naturally, but when it starts destroying the character that makes country country don't you think it crosses a certain artistic line?
It's not like when Ray Charles did his famous country albums - he definitely suffused them with his own R&B soul, but he didn't attack the integrity of the music itself.
You could have stated it like you just did, instead of making it sound so personally attacking. That’s how I read it. You're quite right. It was late and I'd been drinking a bit - apologies......
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 19, 2018 17:25:15 GMT -6
I don't think it's the "beat" that's really ruining country music is it? Seems like it's been on decline due to the folks that make it (or perhaps produce or finance it) for a long time now. To blame a beat is kind of silly, no? Someone had to make the beat you know..... Songwriter, artist, producer, arranger, studio muso.... I mean, just my perspective from a decidedly outside the boundaries of Nashville musical mentality. Are there ukulele's in country music yet? Heh heh Well, y'know "beat" doesn't always just mean "beat" anymore, does it?
Could go off on a whole tangential rant on the corruption of language, but I think not, not right now.....
Ukuleles..... dunno. A couple years ago I saw a couple of guys shredding some semi-metal on ukes.....
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Post by lpedrum on Dec 19, 2018 21:53:45 GMT -6
I love Merle, Hank, Cash etc., and I suspect that most of us here do. But I don't know what to make of what's coming out of Nashville these days. I have close friends that make a good living in that town, and we simply avoid the topic. And it's not my place to give them career advice, especially since they're more financially successful than me! But I'm pretty confident in saying this: 99% of what's produced in Nashville is not Country & Western music. It's Southern Conservative Pop. It's intentionally safe, bland, and corporate for a reason--to sell to its target audience. Rare Nashville artists like Chris Stapleton are sadly the exceptions that prove the rule. I don't disparage anyone that's making a living in Nashville. I don't live in their shoes, nor can I say that 100% of what I do is art for arts sake--we all have to pay our bills. But when it comes to Nashville pop music let just call it what it is, and not be surprised when it trips all over itself trying to chase a trend. Southern conservative pop. I’m stealing that. Please do. If Nashville's product wasn't called Country Music we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 20, 2018 12:15:53 GMT -6
Country is controlled by radio narrowcasting today. The market is middle-aged European-descent women. It is the pop music they were into as teen-agers only with more adult lyrics. This is what it's been since at least the '80s but it changes as the teen-age styles change.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 20, 2018 12:50:29 GMT -6
I don't think it's the "beat" that's really ruining country music is it? Seems like it's been on decline due to the folks that make it (or perhaps produce or finance it) for a long time now. To blame a beat is kind of silly, no? Someone had to make the beat you know..... Songwriter, artist, producer, arranger, studio muso.... I mean, just my perspective from a decidedly outside the boundaries of Nashville musical mentality. Are there ukulele's in country music yet? Heh heh I think that's just sort of an over-exaggeration of the real problem - lack of variety.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 20, 2018 13:10:51 GMT -6
Yes Carrie has a tremendous voice, but if you listen to a classic cut, for example, by Loretta Lynn (or Patsy Cline/Brenda Lee/Tammy Wynette etc.)... MUCH more emotional weight. Also the "Carrie" track was way "too busy" for me.
BTW only sang/soloed on one song last night, Little Feat's "Willin". Excellent band backing me up-including Ray Weston (drums), and Albert Margolis (keyboard/backing harmony vocal). Nailed it (even got complimented for my twang!), so this song's kind of become a signature tune for me. Ironic that I actually met Lowell as a child, so musically coming full circle. BTW to sing in Roger Miller's style (King of the Road) is more challenging than I imagined. Definitely a work in progress.
Oh yeah HUGE Johnny Horton fan-incredible voice/singer! He's one of the great male Country singers, I'm studying right now. Always loved "North To Alaska" too, since I was a toddler!
Chris
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Post by drbill on Dec 20, 2018 15:41:12 GMT -6
I don't think it's the "beat" that's really ruining country music is it? Seems like it's been on decline due to the folks that make it (or perhaps produce or finance it) for a long time now. To blame a beat is kind of silly, no? Someone had to make the beat you know..... Songwriter, artist, producer, arranger, studio muso.... I mean, just my perspective from a decidedly outside the boundaries of Nashville musical mentality. Are there ukulele's in country music yet? Heh heh I think that's just sort of an over-exaggeration of the real problem - lack of variety. You may be right, but like most definable "genre's" of music in 2018, the genre itself defines a narrowness that in fact helps define the genre. Kind of circular, but that narrow focus seems to be what drives virtually all modern (post millennium) styles of popular music. The only difference as I see it is that the definition and execution and creative bent of the genre traditionally defined as "country" has changed from the traditional, to what is evidenced on the video.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 20, 2018 16:24:58 GMT -6
True Country has "Soul" to it, partly as it was derived from Gospel music. "Soul-less" Country ain't the same.
I think Trevanian's famous/brilliant quote, from Shibumi, sums it up for me... "The amoeba outlives the tiger because it divides, and continues in its immortal monotony". Chris
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Post by bluegrassdan on Dec 20, 2018 21:10:08 GMT -6
Country...
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