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Post by mcirish on Dec 18, 2018 10:34:56 GMT -6
And on the Seven (Zillionith) Day... God created Americana! (to help shelter REAL Country Music) Chris I would actually agree on this, not so much as a shelter for country music but a shelter for any imaginative music. I remember as a kid being in awe each time a new album came out that really broke some new ground with songwriting and arrangements. So much now sounds the same. Everyone tries their best to sound like other people. I play in a somewhat adventurous Americana band and that's where I hear a lot of things that are REALLY fresh. Americana by definition is a "mutt" of all American music genres. I love to hear bands like Punch Brothers that are excessively talented and break new ground all the time. I'm personally always looking for something new and inspired. BTW, I spent a few days in Nashville about 5 years ago and spent time at BMI and a few places on Music Row. My writing partner and I were trying to get publishing deals. Basically, we were sat down, played the latest trendy "Bro Country" tune and asked if we want to write 300 songs just like that per year. Completely disheartened, we left Nashville, went back to Chicago and started a band to play our music. Mainstream music has become somewhat of a cookie-cutter thing. See what sells and make 20,000 more just like it. I find very very very little art in what is pushed these day. It's funny, but all the people who really inspire me are almost unheard of. It's a sad state of music but thank God there are some who continue to write and record passionate and imaginative music even though they will never be famous.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 18, 2018 12:43:46 GMT -6
I'll play the devil's advocate role: So, you're a corporation and you look at how you'd like to take an artist from a regional/genre based audience to an international one. You see Taylor Swift did it. You're trying to get a male to do it. So, you imitate One Direction and have the lyrics be less genre specific, but not totally and you hope somebody breaks and crosses over. Meanwhile, you know your genre is loyal and will listen to whatever is spoon fed to them anyway. So, you have One Country Direction.
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Post by Bender on Dec 18, 2018 13:46:21 GMT -6
I think “g” Garth Brooks set the cheese bar pretty high. Tom Segura (comedian) pokes fun quite regularly at “g”. Then he did that psycho Gaines thing, which Segura claims has been wiped from existence? The cheese has been around for years. Hey mommy!!!! Glad to see a fellow your moms house podcast listener? This Garth shit is spot on though. What a psychopath, his social media is cringe.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 18, 2018 13:51:48 GMT -6
I get and agree with your post McIrish.
OK guys, let's look at the bright side.
The classic songs we all know, can be re-tooled with a dash of "modern stuff". We could then "create" songs like...
Yo Mama Tried. My Pharmacia (a reworked My Maria). Your Cheatn' Part-be sure to load up the Autotune on that one!
I think y'all get the idea. Chris
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 18, 2018 14:26:29 GMT -6
The feel is fine (for the very first tune). - maybe a little on top of the beat, which is entirely appropriate for the genre - such as it is. And I did mean hipper (and not hipster) than a bunch of people in church clapping on whatever beat they can find (in the video). Geesh, it's not Stravinsky or Coltrane. Who cares? My point.. It's just poppy country music, written for 14 year old girls like all pop music. Sure it's bad, but it could be worse ..couldn't it?? I mean, I'm all for music that teaches people where 2 and 4 are. ..and don't tell me hipsters listen to this - that would knock them down two more ticks on my cool-o-meter. No, it's what hipsters THINK country music is.
Assuming the right church a bunch of people there are MUCH hipper that this song or any of the 2 million opthers exactly like it.
Who cares? I care. And so do a lot of others who love the real thing and are pissed off that you can't get it recorded (commercially) or promoted these days.
And, historically, country music has always been the more adult side of pop music, not 14 year old girls required. Adult themes, real stories, real emotional content.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 18, 2018 14:41:26 GMT -6
Great post. Chris
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Post by lcr on Dec 18, 2018 15:29:13 GMT -6
I think “g” Garth Brooks set the cheese bar pretty high. Tom Segura (comedian) pokes fun quite regularly at “g”. Then he did that psycho Gaines thing, which Segura claims has been wiped from existence? The cheese has been around for years. Hey mommy!!!! Glad to see a fellow your moms house podcast listener? This Garth shit is spot on though. What a psychopath, his social media is cringe.
“Lets have a “g” day!!”
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 18, 2018 16:25:15 GMT -6
Who said they were turning down work? I’m not. I can shovel shit as well as the next guy. The people in charge have gone from being tastemakers and song people to bean counters and focus groups. Lol well I surely hope you didn't derive I was pointing my response at you. You know better than that. I don't think it's all shit though, I mean I do enjoy seeing my daughter and wife singing along to some of the pop country female stuff I've done, they love it. I really think that part of the genre isn't going anywhere (anytime soon anyways) but I do think we are going to start seeing some more of the artistic and story telling music coming back in, there's room for it all in the Country genre. I honestly believe that's what the labels want, they want it all under the hat of Country and they're doing a damn good job at making that happen. I'm grateful honestly they're smart enough to have an eclectic catalog of music for every listener out there. It means more work for guys like you and me. As long as it's pumped out of this town guys like you and me will be making money. At least that's how I see it. It’s the eternal question for me as a songwriter. Do I chase it or just be who I am, trends be damned? It can make you schizophrenic and water down your material...and it’s why it’s so valuable to have a publisher that champions what YOU do. They’re hard to find and kind of don’t exist anymore. I have seen the publishing side start to peek out of the foxhole again since the MMA passed. It’s such a trickle down - when times are good, we get better music because they can take chances. When times are tight, we get this stuff. It yes - there’s good stuff out there. Blake Shelton’s “I Lived It” is great. Randy houser’s “what whiskey does” was really well written. I guess I’m just to the point where I cringe seeing artists being disingenuous...I mean, you can’t fake it. But the truth is, Kane Brown and Cole Swindell aren’t faking it...that’s who they are...man talking about good timing. The bar has been lowered soooo much, that these guys can make millions.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 18, 2018 16:26:32 GMT -6
Umm... I really like Chris Stapleton, is that acceptable? Well a smartass question deserves a smart ass answer Use your ears.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 18, 2018 16:27:29 GMT -6
I think “g” Garth Brooks set the cheese bar pretty high. Tom Segura (comedian) pokes fun quite regularly at “g”. I remember being a kid and thinking “radio country is wack, Garth is corny, but the old stuff is cool” I was never really exposed to country other than sifting thru the dials and TV. Then he did that psycho Gaines thing, which Segura claims has been wiped from existence? The cheese has been around for years. But thats just my opinion. People obviously like “g” and also like the current 808 stuff. I like modern pop, always liked pop, I think the country versions is like bad songs in the genre (mentioned in the video) but thats just my opinion, and Im old. Garth is cheesey. Lots of his songs have been pretty amazing.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 18, 2018 16:33:58 GMT -6
And on the Seven (Zillionith) Day... God created Americana! (to help shelter REAL Country Music) Chris BTW, I spent a few days in Nashville about 5 years ago and spent time at BMI and a few places on Music Row. My writing partner and I were trying to get publishing deals. Basically, we were sat down, played the latest trendy "Bro Country" tune and asked if we want to write 300 songs just like that per year. Completely disheartened, we left Nashville, went back to Chicago and started a band to play our music. Mainstream music has become somewhat of a cookie-cutter thing. See what sells and make 20,000 more just like it. I find very very very little art in what is pushed these day. It's funny, but all the people who really inspire me are almost unheard of. It's a sad state of music but thank God there are some who continue to write and record passionate and imaginative music even though they will never be famous. loltheists.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/skeptical-dog-dm.jpg
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Post by lcr on Dec 18, 2018 16:44:20 GMT -6
Umm... I really like Chris Stapleton, is that acceptable? Well a smartass question deserves a smart ass answer Use your ears. I guess I shouldve been more direct, no smart arsery intended.. is Stapelton considered someone who is doing Country justice? Im not a Country fan per se as a genre but I do like some stuff when I hear it. The Traveler record I binged, and binged, and binged some more.
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Post by hio on Dec 18, 2018 17:06:14 GMT -6
It's all MTV's fault. They messed up *your* music really bad and then they started diversifying into everything but music, but they then got competitors so they bought them all out and now we have regurgitated muzac. Tada!
They, VIACOM MEDIA NETWORKS (MTV) bought VH1, CMT (Country Music Television), BET and another 167 networks feeding around 700 million sheeple, I mean lemmings.
A tell tale sign of the continued degradation of your planet’s music is all of your *great* engineers and producers are out of work because they will not work on garbage (not the band) and have their names associated with it along with working for chump change. Duh!
I am not from here, but I travel and come in peace.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 18, 2018 17:11:05 GMT -6
FWIW looks like I'm putting together a Pro Country Rock band, with some Classic Country songs mixed in. I feel like a rebel! (compared to what's in the thread video anyway) Chris
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Post by sirthought on Dec 18, 2018 17:20:39 GMT -6
I don't listen to country radio ever, despite enjoying some country artists. Even in the 80s it mostly seemed like manufactured cheese to me. Waylon, Willie, Dolly, Kenny, Lyle Lovett, Nancey Griffith... those are all artists I admire. I worked at radio station that helped break the AAA format with people like John Hiatt and Shawn Colvin, so it's not much of a reach on that sort of folk rock/Americana material to get to country radio. Mostly the production values and how the artist wants to present themselves. Joe Ely is probably country to me, but not to country radio.
The songs highlighted in this "killing" video seem to really be impacted by the sound of artists breaking out like Lorde, who has a songwriter approach with R&B/hip hop production. A lot of hip hop doesn't have real songs like that, but Lorde made it work with the finger snaps and glitched percussion...so why can't country cut through with that? I guess it's because they're beating a dead horse with that approach.
You could argue the train beat has been overused, but it's also pretty much the calling card to know what you're getting into when you hear it.
Just shows how complicated creating music is.
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Post by jeromemason on Dec 18, 2018 18:13:19 GMT -6
I think “g” Garth Brooks set the cheese bar pretty high. Tom Segura (comedian) pokes fun quite regularly at “g”. I remember being a kid and thinking “radio country is wack, Garth is corny, but the old stuff is cool” I was never really exposed to country other than sifting thru the dials and TV. Then he did that psycho Gaines thing, which Segura claims has been wiped from existence? The cheese has been around for years. But thats just my opinion. People obviously like “g” and also like the current 808 stuff. I like modern pop, always liked pop, I think the country versions is like bad songs in the genre (mentioned in the video) but thats just my opinion, and Im old. Garth is cheesey. Lots of his songs have been pretty amazing. The man is a genius at marketing himself and I would be willing to bet he's probably the wealthiest artist to date. If you go back and listen to those songs, I mean at that time NO ONE was coming up with stuff like that, and the way he performed both in the studio and live made them even more valuable. Garth is Cheesy because he chooses to be and knows what's made him rich, but he's a true artist, the man can sell out a show in 10 mins or less.... and chooses not to allow any of his own catalog to be streamed. He's a nice guy at that.
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Post by guitfiddler on Dec 18, 2018 18:41:12 GMT -6
Garth is cheesey. Lots of his songs have been pretty amazing. The man is a genius at marketing himself and I would be willing to bet he's probably the wealthiest artist to date. If you go back and listen to those songs, I mean at that time NO ONE was coming up with stuff like that, and the way he performed both in the studio and live made them even more valuable. Garth is Cheesy because he chooses to be and knows what's made him rich, but he's a true artist, the man can sell out a show in 10 mins or less.... and chooses not to allow any of his own catalog to be streamed. He's a nice guy at that. I got nothing against Garth, but I think I was more into his wife’s cooking show...lol
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 18, 2018 19:08:38 GMT -6
According to friends, Tylor actually did it all by herself by literally living on social media communicating with girls her own age.
The marketing genius is Jimmy Buffet. Garth literally bumbled into Jimmy's fan base.
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Post by lcr on Dec 18, 2018 19:17:19 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 18, 2018 20:02:04 GMT -6
Well a smartass question deserves a smart ass answer Use your ears. I guess I shouldve been more direct, no smart arsery intended.. is Stapelton considered someone who is doing Country justice? Im not a Country fan per se as a genre but I do like some stuff when I hear it. The Traveler record I binged, and binged, and binged some more. Oh no he’s great
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 18, 2018 20:05:31 GMT -6
I love some of Garth’s stuff. He and Taylor come across the same to me...the suspect humility, the crying at the drop of a hat...but yeah, that guy knows his audience
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Post by bigbone on Dec 18, 2018 20:43:32 GMT -6
I'm not a fan of Garth Brook but love Chris Gaines.!!!!!!
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 18, 2018 21:26:10 GMT -6
I don't listen to country radio ever, despite enjoying some country artists. Pretty much says it all.
Which has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with anything related to country music.
You might as well try to justify applying int to Indian Raga or Polish Polka.
I doesn't belong and it's destructive.
Because THAT AIN'T COUNTRY!
You might as well try to impose Heavy Metal on chamber music!
Reducing everything to a tasteless soup of homogenized samelessness is NOT an artistic achievement. It's the antethesis.
If you're an ignoramus.
What's that supposed to mean? That tastelessness and soullessness is the future of all art?
Are you friggen' serious?
No, it doesn't. Mashups are, at heart, not creative. It's just glomming on to whatever you think is popular at the moment. You're not speaking frrom the heart. It's not actually BEING CREATIVE.
Please understand that I mean nothing at all personal in this; you have just expressed an opinion that demonstrates no understanding of what's involved.
It's like I would try to pass off something as an Indian Raga.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 18, 2018 22:06:01 GMT -6
IMHO...
Great Soul music is Gospel/Church based. Great Country music also, like with the Louvin Brothers. Huge influence on The Everlys/Simon & Garfunkel etc.
It wasn't random that Ray Charles was so successful with his landmark album. Two sides of the same Spritual coin. Chris
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Post by lpedrum on Dec 18, 2018 22:33:58 GMT -6
I love Merle, Hank, Cash etc., and I suspect that most of us here do. But I don't know what to make of what's coming out of Nashville these days. I have close friends that make a good living in that town, and we simply avoid the topic. And it's not my place to give them career advice, especially since they're more financially successful than me! But I'm pretty confident in saying this: 99% of what's produced in Nashville is not Country & Western music. It's Southern Conservative Pop. It's intentionally safe, bland, and corporate for a reason--to sell to its target audience. Rare Nashville artists like Chris Stapleton are sadly the exceptions that prove the rule. I don't disparage anyone that's making a living in Nashville. I don't live in their shoes, nor can I say that 100% of what I do is art for arts sake--we all have to pay our bills. But when it comes to Nashville pop music let just call it what it is, and not be surprised when it trips all over itself trying to chase a trend.
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