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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 4, 2018 21:37:12 GMT -6
Satellite arrived yesterday. Done some minimal testing so far. Setup was pretty easy. Working stable. Only using them in 88 and 96 sessions.
The first things I'm testing are:
AMS 16 Lex 224 Lex 480 Neve 33609 Ocean Way ATR-102 BX20 1176
So far, Ocean Way has been the real star for me. Works just as in the videos. Swapped out T-verb and put OW in its place. Instantly makes everything more cohesive, smoother, and more lively. T-verb is a more aggressive sound. I find that I don't even need to tweak OW very much, if at all. The 1176 collection is harder to dial in than Slate's and doesn't fit into the mix as well. The legacy versions are a lot better than I thought they'd be. The vintage blue FG-116 might be the best vocal compressor I've used for my purposes. It sits in a mix really well when I turn up the process knob a bit in Phoenix within my vocal track chains. The 224 doesn't disappoint, but it seems the only reason I'd need it along with the 480 is so I have a more efficient Lex option available. It sounds a bit like a legacy product whereas the 480 sounds like an MKII(it also sounds a bit low tech compared to the SP2016 and AMS RMX). This 480 has the effects and wild spaces that the Relab doesn't, unless Relab added them recently. Supposedly there was something else too. I've found it easier to work with than the Relab and it was pretty recent when I last got a chance to toy around with the Relab version.
The AMS is what it's advertised to be. In a busy mix with a fast tempo, it might not be as useful. But it does give instantly recognizable sounds from the 80s. There's a lot of ways I could see myself using it that would be a bit different than what it's known for. Just need the time to experiment. The ATR-102 didn't seem to offer much different from the Softube Tape I just got. The first time I tried the Softube I didn't notice the crosstalk and stability controls and those are a big help with blending a mix. Still need to do more with the 33609, but it didn't have an immediate wow factor and there's several native options. BX20 has an awesome sound and it's immediately gratifying, but I feel like I could kinda cover the same ground with the 480.
Next up I'll have to try the A800, Massenberg, Shadow Hills, Culture, Massive, Harrison, SSL Bus series, Oxide, and maybe some of those Neve strips. I've read Equilibrium can do what the Massenberg does and I already have the Sknote SDC for a SH option. The Harrison might be cool and it is really efficient. Since I have the EC-300 for delays, I'm not sure I need to make UAD delays a priority. The Precision one that comes with the Satellite can duplicate the Korg I read. Sknote Disto-S has been said to be on par with the UAD Distressor and FG-Stress. My focus is on the UAD exclusives.
My thinking is to do the 480, AMS 16, and OW. Then maybe some more efficient stuff. I got that buy 3, get one custom bundle. Beyond that, I'm not sure if I'll be picking out more. Lots to consider.
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Post by Drew @ UA on Dec 4, 2018 22:06:33 GMT -6
Thanks for the detailed report!
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 4, 2018 22:06:56 GMT -6
I kind of have the exact opposite opinions for a lot of what you said. I think the UAD 1176s slay the slate one. Put them both on a drum bus. Attack slowest and release fastest. All buttons in or highest ratio and then crank the input. See which one breaks up and sounds like a real 1176. I’ve also tried the OW plug about four different times and just can’t find anything that sounds any better than the T Verb. Also haven’t found anything that does what the BX 20 does.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 22:11:51 GMT -6
i'm currently doing the same. demoing / deals..
so far : ssle mk2, g comp mk2, distressor & dimension d. slam dunks..
next up : checking out the post legacy 1176, pultec etc..
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Post by indiehouse on Dec 4, 2018 22:24:33 GMT -6
The Chandler Zener is UAD exclusive and it’s pretty awesome.
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Post by jtc111 on Dec 4, 2018 22:48:56 GMT -6
I really wish they'd expand the Ocean Way Studio plugin. I'd love to have more mic options. Drew @ UA, can you hear me?
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 5, 2018 1:19:22 GMT -6
The UAD 1176s are definitely more aggressive than the Slates. Could take more adjustments of the other plugins that were working with the FG-116. The UAD bring up little details more too, like a mic click I hadn't noticed with the FG-116 or Tube Tech MKII. Also noticed that using the AE 1176 in place of the 116 brought out the fx more. Haven't tried them on instruments yet. These plugins all have considerable a considerable depth of options for the most part. The BX20 doesn't seem like a step down from the Lex reverbs. I'd been doing a lot with T-verb lately, seems like it's a different type of room simulation than OW. I'm already using BX SSL E and Phoenix on everything, so, the OW is a better fit at the moment. The DSP is kinda a limiting factor. There's very little UAD I can use as track plugins due to how high the dsp is on stuff like the new SSL E strip. It would need its own Octo to replace the BX version. I could run several of these reverbs and then a few 1176 though. If I wanted to run all UAD on a 50 track session, I think it would take 3 or 4 Octos with what I would choose. Are there spin and wander controls on the 480? I didn't notice any. I know there's AMS 16 samples out there with and without noise. Not seeing a noise option on the plugin though. Maybe need to read the manual more.
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Post by Drew @ UA on Dec 5, 2018 6:44:50 GMT -6
I really wish they'd expand the Ocean Way Studio plugin. I'd love to have more mic options. Drew @ UA , can you hear me? Of course I can't comment on future products/features, but we have done a bunch of MKIIs. It's one of the things I like about our team, they're not afraid to go back and say--"can we do this better now with all we've learned?"
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Post by Drew @ UA on Dec 5, 2018 6:50:28 GMT -6
Also noticed that using the AE 1176 in place of the 116 brought out the fx more. Speaking of the 1176 AE. It's utterly unique among all 1176 plugins in that it has a SLO mode which gives you the compression and color of an 1176, but with an attack time of 10ms as opposed to the normal range of 20-800 micro seconds. So you get all the beauty of the 1176, but with less "grab", which opens up all sorts of different applications. Kick for example, I typically don't like 1176s on kick because the fast attack times tend to "choke" the bottom octave, but with the AE it can often work much better.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 5, 2018 7:35:07 GMT -6
Drew; very cool tip, maybe we could start a UA Plug in tip thread ?
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 5, 2018 8:14:15 GMT -6
I will also add that I did some back and forth between the UAD AMS and the H-Reverb and Nomad Factory presets and say they don't really sound alike. They still have that AMS RMX character, but all the stuff they added to the IRs is very obvious. The UAD sounds much more authentic in terms of bit depth, frequency response, and modeling. Reminds me of the SP2016 that was just released where Eventide modeled the converters and whatever else to make it more authentic. And that one does sound a lot more authentic than the old stereo room plugin. The Tritik Echorus does a better job of holding up to the AMS 16. But it too is missing that real 1982 sound. Later I will try the pasttofuture IRs in Altiverb, which were significantly better than the ones that come with Altiverb. I forget if they were any other emulations out there.
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Post by lcr on Dec 5, 2018 8:14:54 GMT -6
Nowadays I use 90% UAD horsepower for the SSL. Leftover channels I use the bx cobsole E. I would like to grab the PA new SSL, however I will never pay anywhere nere $350 for a plugin again. Until its heavily discounted Im sticking with the console E on leftover tracks. The UA SSL rules. If you have a track thats just fatiguing, eq, nothing can seem to help it, if you smash the cookies out of it with the heavy UAD fatso settings it really can help. I learned this trick watching a video online of techno producers (for me watching this video was like watching golf, something Ive never tried). Goes to show you can always learn from other genres. I do end up using a UA1176 or two somewhere. Never directly compared to Slate, I use Slates also, the UA does seem to be more vibey.
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Post by lcr on Dec 5, 2018 8:17:39 GMT -6
Dangit JohnK, I remember thinking the BX20 was amazing. Right now it would be $75? Hows the cpu hit? What do you tend to use it on?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 10:11:52 GMT -6
i was thinking of testing the BX-20 as it seems to have a lot praise from UAD users but i have an original vintage BX20 cabinet i've hardly turned on in 20 years..
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Post by donr on Dec 5, 2018 10:42:56 GMT -6
lcr, how many sharc chips are you running?
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Post by lcr on Dec 5, 2018 11:08:26 GMT -6
Ive got 2 quad’s.
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 5, 2018 13:13:03 GMT -6
Have to give those guys at pasttofuture a lot of credit. Comparing their IRs of the AMS 16 and the BX20, it's really close on headphones. They didn't seem to need the modulation. I didn't change any other settings in Altiverb at first. Then I tried to see how close I could get matching time, volume, eq, etc. It can be improved, but not exact. Halls of Fame 3 didn't fare so well. The P2F stuff is head and shoulders above the other IR stuff. The big difference is that the UAD has a bigger, wider, and smoother stereo image. P2F gets about 80% of it right. I'd say for anyone curious about the UAD reverbs, try the P2F stuff and then get the UAD hardware if you want to take it up a notch. The whole P2F catalogue is on sale for $45 I think. They got other Lex devices, BX10, Quantec, H8000, EMT, Hammond B3, Fender Spring, lots of stuff. gumroad.com/pasttofuturereverbsAnyone else use pre-fader sends on OW? A guy on youtube was doing that and it can work well. Sometimes I turn the vocals to post, but I'm liking how the pre-fader makes it more dynamic usually. Starting to prefer the AE 1176 with a 2 ratio over the others.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 5, 2018 15:14:23 GMT -6
Dangit JohnK, I remember thinking the BX20 was amazing. Right now it would be $75? Hows the cpu hit? What do you tend to use it on? I have the new Apollo with the six cores, so I don’t really notice the hit much anymore - but it’s pretty big. I use it on anything that I want to be kind of indie and ethereal. I’ve tracked a couple songs with mallets from SD3. Use it on those and it sounds awesome. I’ll use it on steel too. Percussion. Used it on a vocal a while back. Oh - and EG’s occasionally.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 5, 2018 15:15:15 GMT -6
i was thinking of testing the BX-20 as it seems to have a lot praise from UAD users but i have an original vintage BX20 cabinet i've hardly turned on in 20 years.. I know a couple guys that sold there hw ones because the bx20 was so good. And it’s somewhat esoteric.
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Post by nick8801 on Dec 5, 2018 16:35:50 GMT -6
+1 on the Akg. Sounds very “real” to me. Finally picked up the Massive Passive, and I just love that plug. The distressor is also incredible. Only running a quad, but sometimes I wish I had more!
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Post by lcr on Dec 5, 2018 17:34:02 GMT -6
I remember thinking “Im not sure my skillset could control and use this effectively” Its def. massive, beautiful but massive.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 5:21:49 GMT -6
i was thinking of testing the BX-20 as it seems to have a lot praise from UAD users but i have an original vintage BX20 cabinet i've hardly turned on in 20 years.. I know a couple guys that sold there hw ones because the bx20 was so good. And it’s somewhat esoteric.
Yes i can see it's probably a taste thing, visitors love it i just prefer using the 15 over the 20. Maybe UA in the future will model the bx10/15.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 6, 2018 9:19:49 GMT -6
Long after I bought the UAD BX20, I realized I used to own a spring reverb.. At that time digital reverbs were just beginning to be "affordable". like.. $1,500 "affordable". I had a Lexicon PCM 60, a Yamaha Rev 7 and the Teac RS-20B. Compared to the Lexicon I sold the Teac as quickly as I could. I just hated the spring reverb sound on anything but electric guitar, and Fender amp's reverb was all I needed. I had bought the UAD BX0, but haven't used it much. I know the BX20 is a different animal, but I've moved on toward very clean reverbs.
Nowadays, the Liquid Sonics 7th Heaven does me just fine. The Relab XL480 is still great, but I use it less and less. I think if I started all over again and wanted to buy just one reverb plug, it would probably be Phoenix Verb, even though I don't have it now.
I've heard some of Cowboycoalminers tracks done with the Ocean Way and wondered which studio he did them in, it sounded that good. But for me, the Ocean Way doesn't seem to do much. I never use mic modeling anyway. Why bust chops to choose good mics to then mess with the sound.
I'll say this for mic emulation plug-ins, they can sometimes really help crappy sounding mics to be a bit better. The $20 Guage-USA mic U67 emulation plug-in helped their cheap Chinese U87 style mic sound decent when I suggested it to a student who had purchased their ECM-87.
One thing occurs to me, even though UAD's generous 2 week trial period helps, I find that I often really get to know a plug-in after a few months and typically stop using it, wasting my money. I think the problem is I really didn't know the original piece well enough to be sure I'd actually use it. For instance, the API 2500 compressor. After using it on some tracks, I found it's just too dark and crushing, no matter what the setting. Maybe I'll try their CL1B plug since that's the vocal compressor I like most.
I wish I could just trade or sell the UAD plugs I don't use. I'd be glad to get a 50% credit to switch some of them.
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 6, 2018 10:04:26 GMT -6
ATR-102 is quite something. It's like strapping a smooth rocket to your mix. Softube Tape sounds so uninvolving and sludgey by comparison. Makes vocal tracks using the FG-116 vintage sound like the AE 1176 when Softube's Tape is on the pre-master aux. But I'd still say the AE sounds more like what tracks I know used an 1176 sound like. Oxide and the A800 do the smooth tape thing like the Softube but better. I've done a few pre-master aux tests where I swapped out the UAD tapes for Satin, VTM, Tapedesk(no console on), Kramer, and Softube Tape and the UAD stuff fit better with my chain. Precision Delay is awesome, way better than you would think a freebie delay would be. Right up there with the EC-300 and Cooper Timecube. The Cooper is a very high quality plug, good for doubling or any length of delay. Those 480 Effects are something else. Really out there reverse stuff that I had no idea it could do. I see the spin and wander controls come back with certain algorithms.
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Post by viciousbliss on Dec 6, 2018 10:06:26 GMT -6
Long after I bought the UAD BX20, I realized I used to own a spring reverb.. At that time digital reverbs were just beginning to be "affordable". like.. $1,500 "affordable". I had a Lexicon PCM 60, a Yamaha Rev 7 and the Teac RS-20B. Compared to the Lexicon I sold the Teac as quickly as I could. I just hated the spring reverb sound on anything but electric guitar, and Fender amp's reverb was all I needed. I had bought the UAD BX0, but haven't used it much. I know the BX20 is a different animal, but I've moved on toward very clean reverbs. Nowadays, the Liquid Sonics 7th Heaven does me just fine. The Relab XL480 is still great, but I use it less and less. I think if I started all over again and wanted to buy just one reverb plug, it would probably be Phoenix Verb, even though I don't have it now. I've heard some of Cowboycoalminers tracks done with the Ocean Way and wondered which studio he did them in, it sounded that good. But for me, the Ocean Way doesn't seem to do much. I never use mic modeling anyway. Why bust chops to choose good mics to then mess with the sound. I'll say this for mic emulation plug-ins, they can sometimes really help crappy sounding mics to be a bit better. The $20 Guage-USA mic U67 emulation plug-in helped their cheap Chinese U87 style mic sound decent when I suggested it to a student who had purchased their ECM-87. One thing occurs to me, even though UAD's generous 2 week trial period helps, I find that I often really get to know a plug-in after a few months and typically stop using it, wasting my money. I think the problem is I really didn't know the original piece well enough to be sure I'd actually use it. For instance, the API 2500 compressor. After using it on some tracks, I found it's just too dark and crushing, no matter what the setting. Maybe I'll try their CL1B plug since that's the vocal compressor I like most. I wish I could just trade or sell the UAD plugs I don't use. I'd be glad to get a 50% credit to switch some of them. The Softube CL1B MKII is a lot better than the original version, which is the one UAD sells. It sounds best within the classic channel though.
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