|
Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 10, 2018 6:32:26 GMT -6
Wow, I just found this thread again and am wondering whether it will go on and into perpetuity without anymore of my participation of course so I will close by stating the obvious. With the most recent advances made scientifically in DNA testing alone, Darwin is rolling in his grave. IMHO, (I can still say that right) there is most certainly a God and anyone that states otherwise needs more than a semester in college but a refresher crash course on all things fundamental based on *current* evidentiary data. Some folks however are angry and rebellious which leaks into subjectivism at its finest and I truly get that. Um, enough said folks and sorry for this pitiful interruption, carry on ;-) I’m not really sure what you’re trying to get at here, but does this really seem to be a necessary post?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 6:58:43 GMT -6
I am not even sure the post is meant seriously? Could be a satiric comment? Either way I will not answer to it.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 10, 2018 7:07:56 GMT -6
Wow, I just found this thread again and am wondering whether it will go on and into perpetuity without anymore of my participation of course so I will close by stating the obvious. With the most recent advances made scientifically in DNA testing alone, Darwin is rolling in his grave. IMHO, (I can still say that right) there is most certainly a God and anyone that states otherwise needs more than a semester in college but a refresher crash course on all things fundamental based on *current* evidentiary data. Some folks however are angry and rebellious which leaks into subjectivism at its finest and I truly get that. Um, enough said folks and sorry for this pitiful interruption, carry on ;-) I’m not really sure what you’re trying to get at here, but does this really seem to be a necessary post? Oddly, I had a similar reaction to @smallbutfine's post. Then I got to thinking, I'll bet most of mine come across like that too. So how about them Bruins??? Huh? OH yeah, back on a winning streak now. I know I know, religion politics and sports . . .
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Dec 10, 2018 7:30:59 GMT -6
I am not even sure the post is meant seriously? Could be a satiric comment? Either way I will not answer to it. This is an Ethan Winer thread everything is sarcastic in some way😁
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 10, 2018 8:55:17 GMT -6
Perhaps it's time to let it go. In my experience, that man's not worth the time spent here.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 10, 2018 9:36:03 GMT -6
Perhaps it's time to let it go. In my experience, that man's not worth the time spent here. Oh it's grist for the mill, fodder for humor, in general good laughs are had by all!
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Dec 10, 2018 9:40:23 GMT -6
I am not even sure the post is meant seriously? Could be a satiric comment? Either way I will not answer to it. This is an Ethan Winer thread everything is sarcastic in some way😁 Except for me... I'm never sarcastic.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 10, 2018 9:44:18 GMT -6
This is an Ethan Winer thread everything is sarcastic in some way😁 Except for me... I'm never sarcastic. I can verify this.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Dec 10, 2018 9:56:58 GMT -6
This is an Ethan Winer thread everything is sarcastic in some way😁 Except for me... I'm never sarcastic. Nooo Never.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Dec 10, 2018 10:29:03 GMT -6
Just as a point of fact and because it's a subject upon which there is great confusion of thought, it's worth noting that the existence of God (or anything beyond physical nature) can never be proven or disproven by science. Science has nothing to say on the subject.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 10, 2018 10:39:15 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Dec 10, 2018 11:05:34 GMT -6
Lol. Yep, that settles it.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 10, 2018 11:16:46 GMT -6
Remember, ragan, it's the Ethan Whiner thread . . . anything goes!
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Dec 10, 2018 12:14:19 GMT -6
Wow. Just saw this thread and thought: "Noooo. Mom, they do these creepy things on the internet again!" Well, in the meantime I came to the conclusion, that going into discussions like "Are null tests valid at all?" or "There are so many things science does not know. Therefore...(some bullshit)" is as useful as to discuss the non-existance of god (yes, I am a godless atheist) with Jehova's Witnesses. I understand we are living in a postmodern world, which means that there are some obnoxious things propagated, because some of those, who hated math and science in school, think that because they only have a subjective truthz, there is no objective reality at all. (Which, sorry, is total BS to me. Sorry modern philosophers, ignoring reality does not make it non-existant.) The german "word of 2016" was postfaktisch (post-factual). Well, so you see it is a global trend, not just a leader of a well known industrialized western country ... Therefore, more than ever, these discussions open a can of worms, and in the end, those who do not "believe" in science (which is a joke in itself) take all the smaller pieces and levels of understanding and conclude that there is something like an "alternative science". I make it short. No - there isn't. Measurement errors and their math and finding systematic errors in applied physics experiments is the fundamental stuff in engineering. At the moment, when you do not know about this math, you prove nothing in an experiment. This said - there are more ways to - prove - scientifical facts. I wish that everybody had at least one semester of evidence theory and logic in every university and every scientific or engineering education... Ehm, enough said, sorry for interruption, go on folks. ;-) I can believe in God and in Science...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 13:13:44 GMT -6
I'm stuck between animism and pan-psychism, always have been I think. Detest all major religions though.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Dec 10, 2018 14:16:37 GMT -6
I've been christian, a little buddhist, hindu for a little while, athiest. I just like the passion and imagination that goes into the poetry of it. as well as the self help aspects of nearly any of them.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Dec 10, 2018 15:11:41 GMT -6
Agnostic, figure part of the adventure is finding out who was right when you can’t tell everybody.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 1:00:12 GMT -6
Hey guys, with my metapher of discussing god's non-existence with a Jehova's Witness i meant that these kind of discussions are generally ending in even harder diametral positions... Please don't make this a general discussion about religion, that is exactly what i wrote is not too constructive... :-) I am very tolerant against everyone who believes in whatever religion, if this religion is also tolerant. kind regards.
|
|
|
Post by brucerothwell on Dec 11, 2018 9:43:56 GMT -6
Just as a point of fact and because it's a subject upon which there is great confusion of thought, it's worth noting that the existence of God (or anything beyond physical nature) can never be proven or disproven by science. Science has nothing to say on the subject. Good point. Like a jump off a tall building to the concrete below can be used to test the effects of gravity, the final physical (or metaphysical?) proof of God and the afterlife is not made absolutely evident until the very end of the experiment. So jump, or don't jump. ;-)
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,934
|
Post by ericn on Dec 11, 2018 10:40:50 GMT -6
Just as a point of fact and because it's a subject upon which there is great confusion of thought, it's worth noting that the existence of God (or anything beyond physical nature) can never be proven or disproven by science. Science has nothing to say on the subject. Good point. Like a jump off a tall building to the concrete below can be used to test the effects of gravity, the final physical (or metaphysical?) proof of God and the afterlife is not made absolutely evident until the very end of the experiment. So jump, or don't jump. ;-) That’s why I’m agnostic, OK it might have been all that Freedom From Religion stuff in Madison or the lack of Bright light or clarity when I should have died or simply dealing with the fact I was damn close and seeing it as an adventure rather than Fearing the Reaper... damn it it’s all Donr’s fault 🤔
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Dec 11, 2018 12:29:04 GMT -6
It’s the Big Question. Whether we’re all just physical matter (in which case something like free will is illusory) and physical nature is all that exists or whether there is something else beyond physical nature.
And even if there is something beyond physical nature, that doesn’t necessarily = religion X. Could be any number of things that, if we could have the knowledge, are in fact True.
Either way, there’s a vague, confused notion of extreme prevalence that says that science somehow makes the supernatural less likely. This is false. Science doesn’t make statements that it can’t make (which is what makes me love it). Its cards are always on the table. It says what it knows, what it doesn’t know and what it can’t know. The existence of the supernatural is firmly in the last category.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Dec 12, 2018 0:20:15 GMT -6
I’m sorry I talked about Science earlier, it was a rant. But there’s a reason.. a good one!
I was always in love with science, and a part of me has always wanted to pursue certain scientific fields. As a young adult I started reading extremely technical white papers and peer review journals, hoping to zero in on a discipline I could focus on. It was exciting! All this challenging information to try and digest. Well mostly it helped me go to sleep honestly. I found some easier reading in scientific magazines, basically like cliff notes of the actual studies. So for a few years, before dozing off I’d read scientific articles based on studies from peer review journals. I also learned that actual peer review journals are extraordinarily expensive. A person may be able to subscribe to one or two, but never have enough $ to get a full picture.
Well as the years went by I noticed that every published article and entry followed a pattern, much like they teach kids to write essays. And that every new study always promised to the change the world, but never actually caused a blip in the real world.
When I was doing a gig at Stanford they allowed free fiber WiFi connected to the science journal library. That’s when I had a very short access to thousands upon thousands of peer reviewed journals. For a couple hours. When I saw that magnitude of exclusive, hard to access overpriced media, I couldn’t help but feel that I had been duped. It all made sense to me.
All those PhD students need to get published. And when I think about how many students around the globe absolutely must get published, it’s impossible to conceive how many studies are done.
And every single study uses science to claim it’s going to change the world, or they’ve made some important discovery. Hundreds maybe Thousands of them every day. Too exclusive to afford to view. It just kind of left me jaded.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Dec 12, 2018 1:25:51 GMT -6
I’m sorry I talked about Science earlier, it was a rant. But there’s a reason.. a good one! I was always in love with science, and a part of me has always wanted to pursue certain scientific fields. As a young adult I started reading extremely technical white papers and peer review journals, hoping to zero in on a discipline I could focus on. It was exciting! All this challenging information to try and digest. Well mostly it helped me go to sleep honestly. I found some easier reading in scientific magazines, basically like cliff notes of the actual studies. So for a few years, before dozing off I’d read scientific articles based on studies from peer review journals. I also learned that actual peer review journals are extraordinarily expensive. A person may be able to subscribe to one or two, but never have enough $ to get a full picture. Well as the years went by I noticed that every published article and entry followed a pattern, much like they teach kids to write essays. And that every new study always promised to the change the world, but never actually caused a blip in the real world. When I was doing a gig at Stanford they allowed free fiber WiFi connected to the science journal library. That’s when I had a very short access to thousands upon thousands of peer reviewed journals. For a couple hours. When I saw that magnitude of exclusive, hard to access overpriced media, I couldn’t help but feel that I had been duped. It all made sense to me. All those PhD students need to get published. And when I think about how many students around the globe absolutely must get published, it’s impossible to conceive how many studies are done. And every single study uses science to claim it’s going to change the world, or they’ve made some important discovery. Hundreds maybe Thousands of them every day. Too exclusive to afford to view. It just kind of left me jaded. Not intending this to be dismissive, but I can't figure out what your point is. I'm not sure what publications you were reading but outlandish claims are almost never to be found in scientific journals. Science is nothing if not circumspect. Trade press "normal" publications will often overstate scientific findings to make something sound more exciting, but the scientific research itself is always packed full of qualifiers and avoids sweeping claims like the plague. My wife is a professor and her field is this exact intersection: science and the public. And the reason the hard-science journals are expensive is the audience is minuscule. They have a mandate (a valid one) to exist but a tiny readership (just academics/researchers). And most researchers get access to journals through their universities, not personal subscriptions. It's an insular system, yes, but it's fiercely self-policing. Just try getting a dubious claim that's not supported by data through the peer-review process and see how you fare. I've seen the rejection letters. The people editing the publication (and the academics/researchers that prospective articles get sent out to for review) have a heavy interest in not letting dodgy material get through the process. Their credibility is their livelihood.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 1:52:51 GMT -6
Rupert Sheldrake's "The Science Delusion" was a good read. US title is "Science Set Free" I think.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 12, 2018 10:21:01 GMT -6
At this juncture, I think it would be prudent for us to discuss Science Fiction.
|
|