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Post by lpedrum on Nov 6, 2018 14:07:57 GMT -6
I've owned the CM4 for a few years and can't complain-it's a good all around mic. However, I can't honestly say that it wows or inspires me, so I'm in the market for an LDC upgrade without spending a lot if that's possible. I've read a bunch about the 3U Audio GZ67, the Stam 67, and the JJ Audio mics. Anyone here familiar enough with the Miktek CV4 to share on opinion on whether these or other LDCs in a mid-price range would be an upgrade? I'm looking for unvarnished opinions and feel free to not mince words!
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 6, 2018 14:41:29 GMT -6
I owned a CV4 for many years, from when they first came out. Recently sold it after demoing an ADK TC67. The ADK wiped the floor with it. Warmer, richer, all around more euphoric sound on acoustic guitar and vocals. They’re worth checking out AND are in your price range.
I’ve heard the TFet series from ADK are also very, very nice and are on sale right now at front end audio.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 6, 2018 20:11:02 GMT -6
Check out the files I posted of the Omni8 TF08. Killer, killer mic.
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Post by hadaja on Nov 7, 2018 5:26:35 GMT -6
Owned the cv4, now own the stam 67, also own the gzfet67 (dont buy this), Couple of interesting mics i liked were also the jz67, and the at4060, yes the Stam 67 slays them all. But some of the differences between the cv4 and other c12 variants are not that different . I mean my Bock 251 was not like 5 times better even though it cost more. I have a nice dany bouchard mic with tim campbell capsule and that is quite nice a bit nicer then the cv4. But i also have a ck12 beesneez hybrid 251 which is also quite nice but not 2x as nice as the cv4 even though it cost nearly aus$3500. i would be interested in the Omni 8 though. Seems like a good sound happening there.
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Post by guitfiddler on Nov 7, 2018 5:41:20 GMT -6
Owned the cv4, now own the stam 67, also own the gzfet67 (dont buy this), Couple of interesting mics i liked were also the jz67, and the at4060, yes the Stam 67 slays them all. But some of the differences between the cv4 and other c12 variants are not that different . I mean my Bock 251 was not like 5 times better even though it cost more. I have a nice dany bouchard mic with tim campbell capsule and that is quite nice a bit nicer then the cv4. But i also have a ck12 beesneez hybrid 251 which is also quite nice but not 2x as nice as the cv4 even though it cost nearly aus$3500. i would be interested in the Omni 8 though. Seems like a good sound happening there. I have owned just about every variant of the 251, and I absolutely love Bock mics! I can definitely say that the ones I bought slayed any other mic I have had for vocals and acoustic guitar. In fact, I like the 151, 241, and 251 so much that I am looking to add a stereo pair for my drum overheads. Do you think there was something wrong with your Bock 251? I demoed a Miktek CV3 and CV4 and ended up returning them, however the CV3 was a nice mic along with the CV4, just short of what I wanted. Once your ears get acclimated to a sound, you get to a point where nothing tops the next tier. I was very curious about that Shannon 251 CV4 mod, remember John Kennedy has one and posted some vocals through it on here. I bet that will get you kind of close to Bock territory for much cheaper, maybe? Always wondered.
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Post by mcirish on Nov 7, 2018 9:22:18 GMT -6
I own a CV4. I did not care for it at all when I first got it. It remained unused for months in the box. Eventually, I decided to try a different capsule. I bought a Beesneez K7 and put it in. Night and day difference. It is now used on every recording. It's easily my favorite on alto singers. For such an inexpensive upgrade, it might be worth a shot. You may end up liking it a lot. In my opinion, these are the most essential elements 1) Capsule- I think this is going to be at least 60-70% of the overall characteristic of a mic 2) Tube and circuit - unfortunately, some manufacturers mess up on basic electronics 3) transformer - 4) body / headbasket
The CV4 has a pretty good design and uses an EF800 tube. It's fairly well made. Component selection is good. The biggest drawback to it (IMO) is the capsule. It has an edge to it that I really don't like. I can't remember, but the capsule may be a 67 variant, which needs some filtering to smooth out the high end. The CV4 does NOT have any compensation for that capsule. Trust me, I wrote out the schematics. It's very similar to Oliver's U47 alternative schematic with power supply pattern select.
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Post by hadaja on Nov 7, 2018 13:04:36 GMT -6
Owned the cv4, now own the stam 67, also own the gzfet67 (dont buy this), Couple of interesting mics i liked were also the jz67, and the at4060, yes the Stam 67 slays them all. But some of the differences between the cv4 and other c12 variants are not that different . I mean my Bock 251 was not like 5 times better even though it cost more. I have a nice dany bouchard mic with tim campbell capsule and that is quite nice a bit nicer then the cv4. But i also have a ck12 beesneez hybrid 251 which is also quite nice but not 2x as nice as the cv4 even though it cost nearly aus$3500. i would be interested in the Omni 8 though. Seems like a good sound happening there. I have owned just about every variant of the 251, and I absolutely love Bock mics! I can definitely say that the ones I bought slayed any other mic I have had for vocals and acoustic guitar. In fact, I like the 151, 241, and 251 so much that I am looking to add a stereo pair for my drum overheads. Do you think there was something wrong with your Bock 251? I demoed a Miktek CV3 and CV4 and ended up returning them, however the CV3 was a nice mic along with the CV4, just short of what I wanted. Once your ears get acclimated to a sound, you get to a point where nothing tops the next tier. I was very curious about that Shannon 251 CV4 mod, remember John Kennedy has one and posted some vocals through it on here. I bet that will get you kind of close to Bock territory for much cheaper, maybe? Always wondered. I wouldnt say the bock was bad i would say that it was not a night and day difference. There were similar elements i bothmics. Sure the Bock was super quiet with a nice weight and not overly bright top end but not just night and day difference.
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2018 20:52:20 GMT -6
Owned the cv4, now own the stam 67, also own the gzfet67 (dont buy this), Couple of interesting mics i liked were also the jz67, and the at4060, yes the Stam 67 slays them all. But some of the differences between the cv4 and other c12 variants are not that different . I mean my Bock 251 was not like 5 times better even though it cost more. I have a nice dany bouchard mic with tim campbell capsule and that is quite nice a bit nicer then the cv4. But i also have a ck12 beesneez hybrid 251 which is also quite nice but not 2x as nice as the cv4 even though it cost nearly aus$3500. i would be interested in the Omni 8 though. Seems like a good sound happening there. I'd buy the Stam tomorrow, but I can't afford to plunge into the unknown of when it would actually arrive. Good news to hear they're going to retail, as long as the price hike isn't too high.
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2018 20:54:56 GMT -6
I own a CV4. I did not care for it at all when I first got it. It remained unused for months in the box. Eventually, I decided to try a different capsule. I bought a Beesneez K7 and put it in. Night and day difference. It is now used on every recording. It's easily my favorite on alto singers. For such an inexpensive upgrade, it might be worth a shot. You may end up liking it a lot. In my opinion, these are the most essential elements 1) Capsule- I think this is going to be at least 60-70% of the overall characteristic of a mic 2) Tube and circuit - unfortunately, some manufacturers mess up on basic electronics 3) transformer - 4) body / headbasket The CV4 has a pretty good design and uses an EF800 tube. It's fairly well made. Component selection is good. The biggest drawback to it (IMO) is the capsule. It has an edge to it that I really don't like. I can't remember, but the capsule may be a 67 variant, which needs some filtering to smooth out the high end. The CV4 does NOT have any compensation for that capsule. Trust me, I wrote out the schematics. It's very similar to Oliver's U47 alternative schematic with power supply pattern select. I really should consider this as an alternative. Was the capsule fairly easy to install? I'm okay with a soldering iron if I have good instructions ala CAPI.
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 8, 2018 20:59:46 GMT -6
Check out the files I posted of the Omni8 TF08. Killer, killer mic. I own Mark's ribbon mic and really like it. Considering I have a limited budget, if I were to play the devil's advocate why would I purchase the Omni8 with it's ribbon-like sound if I already own his ribbon mic?
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Post by chessparov on Nov 9, 2018 7:59:40 GMT -6
Put the Soundelux U195 on your shortlist too... Chris
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Post by mcirish on Nov 9, 2018 9:06:56 GMT -6
I own a CV4. I did not care for it at all when I first got it. It remained unused for months in the box. Eventually, I decided to try a different capsule. I bought a Beesneez K7 and put it in. Night and day difference. It is now used on every recording. It's easily my favorite on alto singers. For such an inexpensive upgrade, it might be worth a shot. You may end up liking it a lot. In my opinion, these are the most essential elements 1) Capsule- I think this is going to be at least 60-70% of the overall characteristic of a mic 2) Tube and circuit - unfortunately, some manufacturers mess up on basic electronics 3) transformer - 4) body / headbasket The CV4 has a pretty good design and uses an EF800 tube. It's fairly well made. Component selection is good. The biggest drawback to it (IMO) is the capsule. It has an edge to it that I really don't like. I can't remember, but the capsule may be a 67 variant, which needs some filtering to smooth out the high end. The CV4 does NOT have any compensation for that capsule. Trust me, I wrote out the schematics. It's very similar to Oliver's U47 alternative schematic with power supply pattern select. I really should consider this as an alternative. Was the capsule fairly easy to install? I'm okay with a soldering iron if I have good instructions ala CAPI. It was quite easy to install. The only thing I did, which may or may not have been necessary was that I removed the top plate that holds the capsule mount and I drilled two small holes so that the K7 mount could be used. Three wires have to be soldered. Thats all there is to it. Depending on the sound you are looking for, you could install a C12 capsule instead, if your looking for that flavor. I personally really like the sound of the Beesneez K7. I may like it even more than the Thiersch Red I have in another mic. The Miktek CV4 is a nice mic that has the possibility of being a great mic by a simple capsule change. You can hear the CV4/K7 in this song. The female (alto) lead vocal is the CV4/K7 and the male vocal is a Wunder CM7GTS/M7. If you have any questions, I'm happy to help.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 9, 2018 12:13:18 GMT -6
Short answer, I don’t know. Long answer, when most talk about a mic upgrade they should be asking what’s going to work better on me. This is further complicated that most have this idea in their mind of what they want to sound like. Now for the practical, for the most part my first piece of advice is get to a level of mic where your not dealing with Chinese capsules, my entertainment level favorites being the Gefell M7 based FET mics, the cardiod only versions can be found for less than $1000 used. Honestly I can’t think of anything in the price range that will deliver as universally acceptable results. Now the Miktek is a pretty decent platform for modifying, Shannon at Mic Rehab has produced some very impressive results, I believe he was involved in the original development. The other thing with this route is also going to allow you to have the mic tweeked to your needs. Otherwise spend a ton of cash and time on mid priced mics and try to find the right fit or look at decent respected clones of the classics.
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 20, 2018 11:58:42 GMT -6
Short answer, I don’t know. Long answer, when most talk about a mic upgrade they should be asking what’s going to work better on me. This is further complicated that most have this idea in their mind of what they want to sound like. Now for the practical, for the most part my first piece of advice is get to a level of mic where your not dealing with Chinese capsules, my entertainment level favorites being the Gefell M7 based FET mics, the cardiod only versions can be found for less than $1000 used. Honestly I can’t think of anything in the price range that will deliver as universally acceptable results. Now the Miktek is a pretty decent platform for modifying, Shannon at Mic Rehab has produced some very impressive results, I believe he was involved in the original development. The other thing with this route is also going to allow you to have the mic tweeked to your needs. Otherwise spend a ton of cash and time on mid priced mics and try to find the right fit or look at decent respected clones of the classics. From what I read Shannon's mods are worth every penny. I just feels weird to me sink that much money into the CV4 and almost double its worth.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 20, 2018 15:01:05 GMT -6
I think there's a flavor of the 4-6 months for affordable, LDC microphone that just goes on and on. I know, I bought one- the Peluso 2247SE. Unless you get into the real high end, I doubt it matters which LDC mic you use in the $1,700.00-$2,200.00 range mics. They will all be acceptable, but none of them are to die for. They are getting competition from the $700.00 mics with the reasoning that "you can't tell that much difference". The $700.00 mics are getting the same logic from the $300.00 mics....
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 20, 2018 20:22:50 GMT -6
I think there's a flavor of the 4-6 months for affordable, LDC microphone that just goes on and on. I know, I bought one- the Peluso 2247SE. Unless you get into the real high end, I doubt it matters which LDC mic you use in the $1,700.00-$2,200.00 range mics. They will all be acceptable, but none of them are to die for. They are getting competition from the $700.00 mics with the reasoning that "you can't tell that much difference". The $700.00 mics are getting the same logic from the $300.00 mics.... You may be right. Except your reasoning is based solely on cost equalling quality, when the reality is that some of the most musical sounding gear and instruments did not cost gobs of money when first introduced such as a Fender Strat or a Shure 57. Throw in the recent phenomenom that folks like Stam are making high quality classic clones at very affordable prices and it really makes you wonder what's possible. If any mic alternative to the CM4 is simply a "different but not better" scenario then I hope to make my CM4 more useful and lovable with an upgraded capsule.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 20, 2018 20:31:11 GMT -6
Short answer, I don’t know. Long answer, when most talk about a mic upgrade they should be asking what’s going to work better on me. This is further complicated that most have this idea in their mind of what they want to sound like. Now for the practical, for the most part my first piece of advice is get to a level of mic where your not dealing with Chinese capsules, my entertainment level favorites being the Gefell M7 based FET mics, the cardiod only versions can be found for less than $1000 used. Honestly I can’t think of anything in the price range that will deliver as universally acceptable results. Now the Miktek is a pretty decent platform for modifying, Shannon at Mic Rehab has produced some very impressive results, I believe he was involved in the original development. The other thing with this route is also going to allow you to have the mic tweeked to your needs. Otherwise spend a ton of cash and time on mid priced mics and try to find the right fit or look at decent respected clones of the classics. From what I read Shannon's mods are worth every penny. I just feels weird to me sink that much money into the CV4 and almost double its worth. I do get that, the thing with Shannon’s mods is you have somebody who’s going to work with you to get it right for you. I know some don’t like to put money in a mod that they probably either won’t get back if you sell or take for ever to find the right buyer, but I look at mods as incremental financing I get something useful and then latter I get something better without the pain of dealing with the BS of selling used gear. Also keep in mind everything is built to a price point so Even a high dollar mic has compromises, just not as easy to spot.
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 20, 2018 23:43:12 GMT -6
Since I’ve been down this rabbit hole before I thought I’d share a few thoughts. If you’re looking at microphones in the $1500-$2000 range you will find quite a few good microphones. I’ve had the Peluso 2247SE and a slew of Advanced Audio mics. They all performed well, but not necessarily “wow.” I’d say the Stam would be at the top of the list you provided sonically as they tend to exceed their price point, but be prepared to wait a year to get it. You could also get something custom built from Signal Arts Electronics fully loaded for a bit more than the Stam, but with a solid delivery date and equally fine sonics.
Firstly, I would say know what you want. Don’t look for a 67 unless you know you want something like a 67. Try something in that flavor first. If you can, try a bunch of mics at a local studio; 47, 49, 67, 251, etc. Get an idea of what you really want. Then it’s easier to find something good in your price range.
I completely understand your hesitation with having Shannon upgrade your CM4. I honestly would be more likely to have him tweak my FleA 49 to get it perfect for me than have him upgrade my AA CM49. I just wouldn’t want to throw money into a cheaper mic.
In regards to microphone pricing vs quality I think it just depends. I won’t knock an SM57, SM7B, or the like, as they are great tools and very musical. It’s all about you and what you want to record. If your complaint about your CM4 is not having that “wow” factor then I don’t think you’ll find it in something in a similar price bracket. I don’t think pricing is an absolute, but I do think you get to a certain level of microphone you do find a more consistent quality; FleA, Bock, Wunder, Telefunken. Even those companies are varied in price based on certain things like where they are made and who makes them, but they are all highly regarded for their sound quality. At this level it’s about who’s perfect 47, 49, 251, etc meets your expectations.
One last thing to think about is the whole signal chain. I’ve never really loved my U87ai. It was my first really big mic purchase, but it never “wowed” me. Last year I invested in a Demeter VTMP-2B. It’s a fairly clean tube preamp, imparting tube warmth, but not overtly coloring the signal. It seems to tame everything I hated about the U87ai and I’ve found myself using it quite a bit lately for more modern sounding recordings. All of a sudden there is something special. So, this is just a thought, but maybe trying a new signal chain might help you before you invest money into another microphone.
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Post by Shannon on Nov 21, 2018 0:01:29 GMT -6
Yes I’m alive, there are many good points being made. The Miktek CV4 is a very good reliable platform to start on. We can turn into any flavor you want and make it stand shamelessly among among the 4 icons we know and love 12,251,67,47. The bigger difference is like Vincent mentioned. I recommend that you send a clip or mp3 in of you singing, then we can build it to be your own mic that has the traits of the legends. Each capsule is hand machine and tuned to fit you or in a lot of cases just be a bad ass mic of your liking. This is what cost the extra $$. This was nicknamed by another industry great Jeff Stieger aka Capi ( much respect ) otherwise known as. “‘unicorn Piss “
Make it something special that gives you a smile and chills within the first 3 seconds of use and u know if it’s right.. a lot of it depends on where your at in your career no matter I think it’s a great starting place that can take you to those mic that cost $10,000 that you wish you can afford to get that sound
Srry so short we are landing and seats and tables and laprtops turning off
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Post by Shannon on Nov 21, 2018 0:01:40 GMT -6
Yes I’m alive, there are many good points being made. The Miktek CV4 is a very good reliable platform to start on. We can turn into any flavor you want and make it stand shamelessly among among the 4 icons we know and love 12,251,67,47. The bigger difference is like Vincent mentioned. I recommend that you send a clip or mp3 in of you singing, then we can build it to be your own mic that has the traits of the legends. Each capsule is hand machine and tuned to fit you or in a lot of cases just be a bad ass mic of your liking. This is what cost the extra $$. This was nicknamed by another industry great Jeff Stieger aka Capi ( much respect ) otherwise known as. “‘unicorn Piss “
Make it something special that gives you a smile and chills within the first 3 seconds of use and u know if it’s right.. a lot of it depends on where your at in your career no matter I think it’s a great starting place that can take you to those mic that cost $10,000 that you wish you can afford to get that sound
Srry so short we are landing and seats and tables and laprtops turning off
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Post by iamasound on Nov 21, 2018 8:44:05 GMT -6
It must have been a biplane.
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Post by mcirish on Nov 21, 2018 9:52:11 GMT -6
To the original poster... The question I think you need to ask is " Do I want XYZ mic, because it's a known item and I get points with clients for having it?".... or "Do I want a mic that sounds great but has no cool points?." I think that's the main thing you need to resolve first. As Shannon posted, the CV4 is a great starting point. The mic is well made and the electronics are designed correctly. It has no major flaws stock except for the capsule. I chose the capsule upgrade for me. I have a home studio and only work with select clients who don't care about the name on the mic. If it sounds right, it is right. I've borrowed an awful lot of mics over the years in search of the holy grail. One mic does not do it all. Some Neumanns I used were absolutely not the sound I wanted to hear, and these were big money current mics. If I had the extra cash, I'd buy another CV4 and do another capsule swap for a different flavor. I've got the K47 sound covered now. Maybe a C12 kind of thing is next. I may be wrong, and I'm happy to admit that I often am.. but mics are made of parts. There is no magic. It's engineering. Many mics do have a sense of "magic" when they are designed right and used in the correct context, but in the end, it's not a mystery. If the components selected are good and the capsule is well made, the mic is going to perform well. That's my feelings. If I had some money, I probably would have sent my CV4 to Shannon, but alas, I was pretty broke (paying for my daughter's tuition) and I decided to do it myself. I have no complaints. The CV4 is now one of my favorite mics. It really is a great platform to build from.
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Post by seawell on Nov 21, 2018 16:04:49 GMT -6
I haven't used the Miktek so sorry I can't be of any help there. I did want to chime in though and say that since you seem to dig the U67 sound you should check out a Korby KAT 1 with the 67m head. A bunch have popped up used lately. It's one of my favorite vocal mics!
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Post by donr on Nov 21, 2018 19:26:31 GMT -6
It must have been a biplane. Ha, that's funny, don't mind the thread hijack.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 22, 2018 0:43:41 GMT -6
I haven't used the Miktek so sorry I can't be of any help there. I did want to chime in though and say that since you seem to dig the U67 sound you should check out a Korby KAT 1 with the 67m head. A bunch have popped up used lately. It's one of my favorite vocal mics! That would be the magic of Shannon’s take on a modded 67 Capsule.
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