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Post by M57 on Nov 3, 2018 16:24:16 GMT -6
And yes, if you're a teacher, you're a gatekeeper. You provide opportunities, training, and resources for young people. That's a gatekeeper.
No grades? Then how do your students pass to the next grade?
No market in their lives?
Are you kidding? LIFE is a market. If you're a teacher you should know that.
As it happens, my dad was a college professor and my mom got her credential to teach grade schoolers after my parents retired. I grew up around universities and schools my whole young life. You ARE a getekeeper. You need to come to grips with that if you haven't.
Semantics.. Yes I'm aware that the education system is a gatekeeper, and admission requirements trickle down from the halls of higher education. Those kids that decide to continue on as musicians will run into juried events and such -- as it should be. But the truly gifted musicians don't need the system. Some are eaten alive by it and some thrive in it ..but some cherry-pick it. That's what I did ..so I am a conspirator within the system and I open the gates as wide as I can. BTW, at my school there are no 'official' grades through 5th grade and the first half of 6th grade, just comments. Besides, with the exception of the classical and elements of the jazz worlds where musicianship is rated in a competitive environment, you don't need a music education to be a creative force in music. Was it you that mentioned Dylan and how he would fair in today's system? I wonder that both you and I simply don't recognize the modern day Dylans. BTW, this is going somewhat OT - this isn't really the 'system' that's being discussed in the thread.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 3, 2018 17:34:57 GMT -6
And yes, if you're a teacher, you're a gatekeeper. You provide opportunities, training, and resources for young people. That's a gatekeeper.
No grades? Then how do your students pass to the next grade?
No market in their lives?
Are you kidding? LIFE is a market. If you're a teacher you should know that.
As it happens, my dad was a college professor and my mom got her credential to teach grade schoolers after my parents retired. I grew up around universities and schools my whole young life. You ARE a getekeeper. You need to come to grips with that if you haven't.
Semantics.. Yes I'm aware that the education system is a gatekeeper, and admission requirements trickle down from the halls of higher education. Those kids that decide to continue on as musicians will run into juried events and such -- as it should be. But the truly gifted musicians don't need the system. Not semantics. Reality. And you're misunderstanding what I'm saying deliberately or not.
As far as "needing the system" goes, that's poppycock. I mean, nobody really NEEDS much of anything - you can go out in the woods and subsist on roots and berries, plus maybe the odd squirrel or fish. But it sure will hamper your ability to accomplish anything. A musician doesn't need an audioence - but given that music is a form of communication, without an audience you're really just mumbling to yourself.
The really important part of a university is access to materials and people to work with. most people don't understand that. As a teacher you are a gatekeeper to those resources and more.
But this ios going off on a tangent, although it's all the same thing.
To return to the subject, by destroying the legitemate gatekeepers to the formal music business, the internmet has actually destroyed opportunities for musicians and opened opportunities for commercial entities to prey not onlyu on what rermains of the profession, but also on hoardes of young hopefuls who are denied a coherent path to a career, be they hardworking and good enough. And there's a whole industry of hucksters selling various products (books, seminars, videos, etc.) designed to take advantage of that poisonous meme that the internet is the land of opportunity for everyone.
Now the most talented often have the least opportunities because they don't fit the mold for internet-based exploitation.
Are you familiar with Jaron Lanier? One of the "founding fathers" of the internet and commonly feted as the inventor of bvirtual reality. Also something of a musician. A few years ago he came to the realization that his utopian dream had gone off the rails and started lecturing on the subject and wrote two books. "You Are Not A Gadget" is highly recommended. "Who Owns The Future" brings his dystopian epiphany to a head in the first half, but the second half is an attempt to justify himself with pie-in-the-sky utopian ideas (like each person getting paid for each use of each bit of data they generate on the web) that are utterly impractical and are never going to happen. Still highly recommended for the insights in the first half concerning how nastily exploitive the Internet has become.
First, you can't play music without some education. It doesn't have to be formal. (Like I said, you're not understanding what I've been saying.)
As to modern day Dylans, we don 't get to hear them because the drown in the morass of the internet. From what I've been told, Dylan's first several albums lost money for Columbia, but they kept him on because he was such a magnet for other talent that did make money for them. These days he'd never even get a chance for the first.
And the word in this context is "fare", not "fair". A teacher should know that.
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Post by M57 on Nov 3, 2018 18:03:16 GMT -6
And the word in this context is "fare", not "fair". A teacher should know that.
Yes they should, and I do. Thank you for spending the energy and taking the time to catch my error and point it out to me.
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 3, 2018 18:15:01 GMT -6
And the word in this context is "fare", not "fair". A teacher should know that.
I hope that was an attempt at humor. If not, it was needlessly condescending.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 3, 2018 20:08:55 GMT -6
And the word in this context is "fare", not "fair". A teacher should know that.
I hope that was an attempt at humor. If not, it was needlessly condescending. Why? He's a teacher. I proofread and edit my posts multiple times - I would expect a teacher to do no less.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 3, 2018 20:11:35 GMT -6
And the word in this context is "fare", not "fair". A teacher should know that.
Yes they should, and I do. Thank you for spending the energy and taking the time to catch my error and point it out to me. Thanks. No ill will intended.
You should see how many times I have to proofread and correct my posts - I'm an horrible typist. And still I miss stufj.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 3, 2018 23:49:32 GMT -6
I'm a "teacher by day" - says so in my status.. At my school EVERY fourth and fifth grader is not only in the chorus, but also in either the String Ensemble or the Band, and EVERYONE plays an instrument. Music making and literacy is not just the expectation - it's the culture. When I was in Africa studying dance and drumming - EVERYONE in the village was a musician because everyone dances. There's little to distinguish the dancer from the drummer because dance is an integral part of the music - and the gatekeepers were the usual suspects - including sexism, nepotism and politics. When it comes to who can make great music, gatekeepers are always a bad thing. No, gatekleepers are a GOOD thing. It would appear that your school is run by gatekeepers who believe in opening the gates to foster creativity - as opposed to the thousands of schools that have few if any music programs and turn out graduates who can't even play or sing in the most rudimentary way.
Your kids get graded on their musical performance, right? Ergo, gatekeepers.
The job of the gatekeeper is not just to keep people out - it's to OPEN the gates to those who are deserving.
If you are a teacher, you are a gatekeeper.
Wrong. The market we have now is chaos and operates against all artists. We have a Hot 100 where over 90% of the "hits" are written by TWO HACK WRITERS and singing stars are judged on their looks, not their musical ability. A market where a Bob Dylan or a Bruce Springsteen would not have stood a snowball's chance in hell of success.
And the gearpimps get rich because of the thousands and thousands of chumps who buy into the illusion of universal accessibility.
The difference is that now the gatekeepers are no longer music people (not even music lawyers), they're Madison Avenue and they're selling image.
Somewhat OT perhaps, but I just saw Dylan and his band tonight, and holy moly, they killed it. Just sounded fantastic. And on a different point, it seems to me that one of the things devaluing music today is that there are just so many other things to DO. Those of us in the music industry are not just competing with bad music, we’re competing with good Netflix shows and weird video games. Most of my friends are really into music, but my nephews are more into Minecraft.
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Post by Ward on Nov 4, 2018 9:05:32 GMT -6
There's a sucker born every minute
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 5:20:12 GMT -6
Seriously? That sounds fishy to me. Next day delivery? Is their AI working on ZX81 computers or do they have to hire a google AI? Actually, the guys most probably do not have a clue, what they are really talking about. But that's symptomatic for a full generation, call them millenials, whatsoever... You want to know what AI in music is? A program called Ludwig from somewhere in the nineties, able to write music in the style of ... and it was thought or playing royalty free music in commercial places etc. to cut cost on well royalties... Works pretty good for what it is. Makes LALALA.
So, what do I guess, their "AI" is doing? What would I do to accomplish this if I have no clue? Normalize the tracks. Sort by name. Mix to pink noise (a monkey could to something like that...). Let iZotope Neuron run on each channel (assistent), let iZotope Ozone run in the master. Done.
I would bet, they do something like this. Maybe some re-engineered / re-invented iZotope wheel. Cause *their* stuff works pretty good. And actually does what it claims to do - assisting and making guesses for presets and guessing annoying stuff and make it possible to directly see how channels mask each other, making cut in one and boost in other track actions easy and effective.
Did they find the holy grail of mixing after getting into the matter for a few months after leaving "Tesla"? I bet, that not. Is it possible to automate things, that a mixing engineer would do? Sure. A very mechanic and uninspired mixing engineer. I heard, there ARE actually some of them out there. (human ones)
But how far did they get? I tend not to believe what they are trying to sell us. That they got so deep into AI, that they get the results they claim are possible with it. It happens to be, that i programmed a categorization program/script in perl, using bayesian machine learning algorithms for a IT task of categorizing a few thousand business documents in pdf format, so the tags can be integrated in a clever web based database with nifty search interface. I trained the engine with each document I categorized by hand, and finally got a probability of 80% correct guesses by the machine, making a great piece of my work. This said, I was an IT professional and started programming in the age of 12, pretty unusal for my age.... Is something like the idea they sell possible at all? Yepp. I heard the results. Pretty, uhm, uninspired. Yeah, a machine can learn this. But that's it. I don't think it sounds good in their examples, and definitely I would have been more impressed, if they would have given more details about what the AI really does. But this video is so fake as "Threatin" is. Knob up "Listen, this is raw." Knob down, knob up "Listen: Radio Hit" LOL. (And it does not even sound really good.) At least they should work on their presentation. 1 smart dandy, 2 nerds 1 console Sounds like some ugly kind of viral shock porn clip. Hahahaha.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 10, 2018 7:33:18 GMT -6
I was just thinking, if you sent them the same file twice would you get the same mix.🤔
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Post by M57 on Dec 10, 2018 8:18:54 GMT -6
I was just thinking, if you sent them the same file twice would you get the same mix.🤔 ..or so you might think. I've noticed that Slate's meters seem to come up with different peaks in places even if I play a track from the start. I always wondered if some of the plugs I use have random elements that create different tails, etc. I mean, it doesn't take much to throw a randomizer into an algorithm. Also, with 'true' AI, isn't the system autonomously 'learning' and improving all the time? I doubt that particular site uses true AI; more likely they misappropriate the word. The average person/user doesn't really understand the difference and the term is probably misused and misinterpreted so much these days that its meaning has been diluted to point where it's practically worthless.
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 10, 2018 11:40:41 GMT -6
I was just thinking, if you sent them the same file twice would you get the same mix.🤔 ..or so you might think. I've noticed that Slate's meters seem to come up with different peaks in places even if I play a track from the start. I always wondered if some of the plugs I use have random elements that create different tails, etc. I mean, it doesn't take much to throw a randomizer into an algorithm. Also, with 'true' AI, isn't the system autonomously 'learning' and improving all the time? I doubt that particular site uses true AI; more likely they misappropriate the word. The average person/user doesn't really understand the difference and the term is probably misused and misinterpreted so much these days that its meaning has been diluted to point where it's practically worthless. Funny you should mention Slates meters. I hate the metering on the SLate vms compressors. The 1176’s don’t react at all like the real Vu. Very slow recovery. It drives me mad.
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