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Post by stormymondays on Oct 30, 2018 11:34:23 GMT -6
Impressed with the British-Decca made DAV BG pre & the Sweedish made Line Audio also. Have never bought without really trying something but for those of you that recommended these can you elaborate a little more. Leaning towards these 2. For the price it's sort of a no-brainer as I've seen they compete with the "highest end" pres. I have the 4-pre rack in my studio. No issues at all and it gets a lot of use. Just last week it came on top for acoustic guitar recording (J45 through KM84) as everyone’s favorite, even against a Chroma and a Tree Audio. I’ve never found it noisy. It gets a lot of use for drums as well and acoustic instruments in general.
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Post by veggieryan on Oct 30, 2018 11:54:58 GMT -6
You have some colored preamps so Im guessing you can use 8 clean preamps. I was in a similar situation and ended up with a Metric Halo ULN-8. It has 8 very good clean preamps with 90db of clean gain and no noise with direct analog outs so I can use it with my high-end JCF AD8 converter. It just so happens to come with the best interface and built-in mixer with 8 great channels of DA now that the 3d upgrade is available. I did this because I came to the conclusion I would have to spend much more money to take the next step up from these preamps. Only the very best like NPNG, Pueblo JR or Millennia surpass the ULN-8 preamps for good clean sound at a much higher price. Going analog direct to my JCF AD8 I am extremely pleased with the sound. Eventually, I will be getting some Pueblo JR preamps since the reviews are so intriguing but I really don't need them.
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Post by Blackdawg on Oct 30, 2018 12:17:23 GMT -6
Seriously...
Grace m108
Or m802
Or a Millennia
Can't beat those for clean pre amps!
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Post by aremos on Oct 30, 2018 13:00:38 GMT -6
You have some colored preamps so Im guessing you can use 8 clean preamps. I was in a similar situation and ended up with a Metric Halo ULN-8. It has 8 very good clean preamps with 90db of clean gain and no noise with direct analog outs so I can use it with my high-end JCF AD8 converter. It just so happens to come with the best interface and built-in mixer with 8 great channels of DA now that the 3d upgrade is available. I did this because I came to the conclusion I would have to spend much more money to take the next step up from these preamps. Only the very best like NPNG, Pueblo JR or Millennia surpass the ULN-8 preamps for good clean sound at a much higher price. Going analog direct to my JCF AD8 I am extremely pleased with the sound. Eventually, I will be getting some Pueblo JR preamps since the reviews are so intriguing but I really don't need them. I think the NPNG's might just be the best pres I've used. I like the Avalon 2022 (M5) a lot & use those for my main vox mics & if I need more color I use the BAE 1073's, I'd go the NPNG, Millenia, Pueblo (Scott's a menber here) way but don't know if I can "justify" the cost of 8 of those channels for "secondary" sources when it "seems" that I can get fairly close with the DAV & Line Audio. Of course I'll have to confirm that. Will definitely check out the MH ULN-8 and does it come without the digital interface (only the pres)?
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Post by veggieryan on Oct 30, 2018 13:25:14 GMT -6
You have some colored preamps so Im guessing you can use 8 clean preamps. I was in a similar situation and ended up with a Metric Halo ULN-8. It has 8 very good clean preamps with 90db of clean gain and no noise with direct analog outs so I can use it with my high-end JCF AD8 converter. It just so happens to come with the best interface and built-in mixer with 8 great channels of DA now that the 3d upgrade is available. I did this because I came to the conclusion I would have to spend much more money to take the next step up from these preamps. Only the very best like NPNG, Pueblo JR or Millennia surpass the ULN-8 preamps for good clean sound at a much higher price. Going analog direct to my JCF AD8 I am extremely pleased with the sound. Eventually, I will be getting some Pueblo JR preamps since the reviews are so intriguing but I really don't need them. I think the NPNG's might just be the best pres I've used. I like the Avalon 2022 (M5) a lot & use those for my main vox mics & if I need more color I use the BAE 1073's, I'd go the NPNG, Millenia, Pueblo (Scott's a menber here) way but don't know if I can "justify" the cost of 8 of those channels for "secondary" sources when it "seems" that I can get fairly close with the DAV & Line Audio. Of course I'll have to confirm that. Will definitely check out the MH ULN-8 and does it come without the digital interface (only the pres)?
I sold my NPNG's when I got my ULN-8 since they were easily good enough for secondary sources for me. ULN-8 only comes as a whole unit with interface but that means you maybe can sell your current interface to offset the cost. It certainly is easily the best interfae and mixer I have ever had and I have had almost all of them.
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Post by guitfiddler on Oct 30, 2018 20:34:54 GMT -6
ericn, the ONLY ones I promote are the 428 MARK 1s, made in England. The Mark 2 isn't even close to it, and I believe the 828 is based on the 428 Mark 2. The 4 impendence settings and variable HPF and do a remarkable job of varying the tone offerings. . Yes, those are the ones. I know they came out with a cheaper version and I actually forgot about those other models.
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Post by Omicron9 on Oct 31, 2018 5:03:16 GMT -6
Thanks for the heads up on the DAV. I think it's the first "negative" I encounter on this pre. My pleasure, though it wasn't meant as negative; just my experience with it. It is also possible that other DAV users aren't bothered by the hiss. There are plenty of noisy mics out there that people seem to love: Avenson, Earthworks, etc. I can't stand excessive self-noise in gear. The Millennia and Sytek are dead silent. They're not the only ones; just using those as examples as I am very familiar with them. And not trying to disparage any other brands of gear; just sharing my experiences as merely that. -09
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Post by Guitar on Nov 3, 2018 8:09:50 GMT -6
You have the Yamaha MLA8 on your list.
I use mine for tracking drums. It's very clean and I end up with "large" sounding drum tracks.
I haven't compared it back to back with a Sytek, but for my purposes, I think the Yamaha is probably better. Mainly because you have pads, and twice as many channels for less cash.
I should really track a full song on the Yamaha one day to see how it stacks up.
Since my lunchbox has a bunch of nice colored transformer preamps I end up using those for most of my mono and stereo tracks.
The Yamaha drum tracks fit right in with those, and don't feel out of place at all.
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Post by aremos on Nov 3, 2018 10:49:37 GMT -6
It's really amazing that you can get 8 channels of Yamaha pres (from their digital boards) for under $700. & WAY under $2K for 8 channels of Line Audio & DAV. The next step up is for Millenia, Phoenix, Grace, etc. 8 channels for starting above $3K.
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Post by aremos on Nov 3, 2018 13:04:40 GMT -6
... It is also possible that other DAV users aren't bothered by the hiss. There are plenty of noisy mics out there that people seem to love: Avenson, Earthworks, etc. I can't stand excessive self-noise in gear. The Millennia and Sytek are dead silent... It's funny you say that as the majority of guys using the DAV pres (from DECCA), it seems, are the classical engineers. And in that field (with Millennia, Grace, Forsell, etc.) & with Schoeps/DPA mics & as "pure" of a captured sound as possible , they wouldn't be bothered by hiss. Was the hiss consistent in all DAV's you worked with?
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Post by Omicron9 on Nov 5, 2018 9:31:23 GMT -6
... It is also possible that other DAV users aren't bothered by the hiss. There are plenty of noisy mics out there that people seem to love: Avenson, Earthworks, etc. I can't stand excessive self-noise in gear. The Millennia and Sytek are dead silent... It's funny you say that as the majority of guys using the DAV pres (from DECCA), it seems, are the classical engineers. And in that field (with Millennia, Grace, Forsell, etc.) & with Schoeps/DPA mics & as "pure" of a captured sound as possible , they wouldn't be bothered by hiss. Was the hiss consistent in all DAV's you worked with?
I've only had the one; as I said, maybe I got a bad one. This isn't meant as a slam against DAV; just sharing my experience as one user is all. -09
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Post by aremos on Nov 15, 2018 13:44:49 GMT -6
Thanks all for the responses. I'm down to 4 that are serious contenders (1 is a quad):
1) DAV BG8 2) Line Audio 8MP (not sure about the power supply) 3) NPNG QMP-4NW 4) Millenia HV3D-8
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 15, 2018 13:51:47 GMT -6
Thanks all for the responses. I'm down to 4 that are serious contenders (1 is a quad):
1) DAV BG8 2) Line Audio 8MP (not sure about the power supply) 3) NPNG QMP-4NW 4) Millenia HV3D-8 If the HV3D-8 is on your list. Take a hard look at Grace's stuff too. the m802 or m108.
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Post by jampa on Nov 15, 2018 14:10:34 GMT -6
I got my DAV unit second-hand. Buying new, my ears are looking into NPNG, Grace, and Pueblo Audio - because I don't see them selling second hand very often.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 15, 2018 14:17:40 GMT -6
I got my DAV unit second-hand. Buying new, my ears are looking into NPNG, Grace, and Pueblo Audio - because I don't see them selling second hand very often. I have 5 m802s at our place. They are amazing and Mike is a killer guy. the new m108 is one of the best deals out there for what it is.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 15:17:08 GMT -6
Second Eric's Line Audio recommendation. Can't vouch for their pres as I've never used them, although I've never read a bad review and they are crazy cheap. Can vouch for their CM3 mics though, have a pair, very transparent and again ridiculously cheap for what they do. Maybe see if you can get the 2 channel pre as a demo to check them out, before committing to eight channels?
Also very surprised to read my first ever negative review of DAV pres here!
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 15, 2018 15:29:58 GMT -6
Second Eric's Line Audio recommendation. Can't vouch for their pres as I've never used them, although I've never read a bad review and they are crazy cheap. Can vouch for their CM3 mics though, have a pair, very transparent and again ridiculously cheap for what they do. Maybe see if you can get the 2 channel pre as a demo to check them out, before committing to eight channels? Also very surprised to read my first ever negative review of DAV pres here! Ditto here on the Line Audio. I don't own the pres but I do own the mics and they're really great for the money. It's pretty crazy that you can get 8 quality boutique mic pres for around $650 USD. Click HERE for a link.
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Post by aremos on Nov 15, 2018 15:59:26 GMT -6
I got my DAV unit second-hand. Buying new, my ears are looking into NPNG, Grace, and Pueblo Audio - because I don't see them selling second hand very often. I have 5 m802s at our place. They are amazing and Mike is a killer guy. the new m108 is one of the best deals out there for what it is. They have a new one out now called m801 (inverse of m108?), $1K more expensive, no convertors, & am wondering what's the difference in so far as the pres are concerned?
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 15, 2018 16:09:57 GMT -6
I have 5 m802s at our place. They are amazing and Mike is a killer guy. the new m108 is one of the best deals out there for what it is. They have a new one out now called m801 (inverse of m108?), $1K more expensive, no convertors, & am wondering what's the difference in so far as the pres are concerned? The m 108 is a USB interface with the same mic pre amps and converts in a 1u unit. Plus a monitor controller sort of. It is a DAW interface with preamps and digital IO built in and is remote controllable. the m 801 is a 8 channel mic preamp in a 2u package with analog IO the m 802 is a remote controllable 8ch mic pre amp with optional DAC and digital IO setups As far as I know, the mic preamps are the same for the m801 and m802 and the m108 are all basically the same. I've not use an m108 but have a few friends with them and they love it just the same. Some of the differences are how they are built for service stuff and redundant power supply(why they are so well used in location recording gigs and classical stuff) The m108 is a killer deal for what you get really. Its a very nice box for a lot of people. I don't think you would go wrong with any of them really. Also I'd highly recommend giving Grace a call and talking to them to really ask about the differences, Mike is a stellar guy and will tell you anything you need to know. This is taken from their site: "Curious about the differences between the m108 and the m802? At the core, both mic preamplifiers are quite similar. They both utilize our signature transimpedance (or current feedback) amplifier topology, they have no electrolytic capacitors in their signal paths, and each preamp channel has its own power supply voltage regulators. These are the key ingredients in how we design our mic preamplifiers, which lend very similar sonic performance to both units. However, there are many differences in design execution and features: The m802 has external, dual redundant power supplies. The power supply unit used in the m108 is the same as the m802 and m905, but the m802 uses two of them for NASA level reliability (more expensive). Redundant or not, this design is currently 100% reliable, without a single failure in the field since the 6 years they have been deployed. The m802 has two adjustable ADC sensitivity settings which are accessible via setup menus. This requires a fair amount of additional circuitry and components (more expensive). The m108 ADC sensitivity is fixed at +24dBu or +18dBu (at the analog output) for 0dBFS and is changed via internal jumpers (less expensive). The m802 ribbon mode uses a relay to bypass the input phantom power blocking capacitors (more expensive).In the m108, we use very high quality metalized film capacitors for this which are exceedingly transparent sounding (less expensive). The m802 has two sets of balanced analog outputs (more expensive) while the m108 has one set (less expensive). The m802 has separate circuit boards for the preamps, a back plane pcb for interconnect, a controller pcb, and 4 pcbs in the ADC assembly,15 circuit boards in all (very expensive). The m108 has its preamplifiers, ADC, and controller all on one pcb and the digital I/O on another (less expensive). This really makes up the bulk of the cost savings between the two units. As well there are fewer interconnect cables which means less chance of a contact failure. The m108 has the latest generation clock technology. The clock jitter in the m108 clock is less than 40ps and the PLL has a low frequency corner of around 500mHz (the m802 PLL corner frequency is 10Hz). This gives the m108 an extremely effective barrier to external clock jitter. We are unable to measure any effects of external jitter even at exceedingly high levels which would not be found in a modern well designed digital audio system. The measured performance of the m108 slightly exceeds that of the m802 in most areas. These include ADC dynamic range, THD+N, external clock jitter rejection. The rest of the differences are in features, size, weight, and power consumption. The m108 represents the single biggest R&D effort in our company's history. We really focused on increasing performance and maintaining bomb-proof reliability while reducing the cost of the system. We are really proud of this unit and are amazed with its stunning clarity and musicality." Edit: Wow didn't realize the m802 was discontinued! Guess the m108 is their only remote 8ch mic pre now.
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Post by dreamsambas on Nov 15, 2018 21:56:39 GMT -6
I used to own 4 channels of DAV. I considered them middle of the road preamps. Not colored like an API or a Neve, nor detailed like a Grace or Millenia. Just sorta in the middle. Some might call them boring. To me, they were good utility preamps.
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