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Post by aremos on Jan 28, 2019 14:54:24 GMT -6
Like the 170 over the other 2. Specially raw.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 28, 2019 15:16:06 GMT -6
So does the purple badge indicate a transformer version of the mic? Or was it just mis-badged in the early production? "TLM" in Neumannspeak indicates a TransformerLess Microphone.
A purple Badge on a TLM would indicate that the badge was replaced with the wrong color.
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Post by stormymondays on Jan 28, 2019 15:20:02 GMT -6
So does the purple badge indicate a transformer version of the mic? Or was it just mis-badged in the early production? "TLM" in Neumannspeak indicates a TransformerLess Microphone.
Dunno what a purple badge denotes. Yet.
Purple: mic has a transformer. Red: transformerless. Black: tube. The only mic to ever deviate from this, as I've learned, is the early TLM 170.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 28, 2019 16:49:07 GMT -6
Thanks (as always!) for doing this. Main thing is we hope you feel better soon! Chris Thanks. Seems that my voice started waking up today. I have another week before my next concert. So I’ll be fine. aremos, I think it’s an aesthetic thing between the FleA49 and the TLM170. I know the sound of both of them from some great opera recordings. I know the TLM170 from loads of modern classical albums; Rolando Villazon, Renee Fleming, etc. I also know the sound of the 49 from the older school of operatic recordings; Jussi Bjorling, Franco Corelli, and I’m pretty sure Mario Lanza’s later Neapolitan album. Even Jonas Kaufmann’s recent Italian Opera album was done with a pair of 49s. I openly admit that I prefer the mushy warmth of the 49, but I wouldn’t hesitate to use the TLM170 for a client commissioning vocal on a classical piece.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 28, 2019 16:58:09 GMT -6
Yes, the early ones (the TLM170i) are the same transformerless circuitry regardless of red or purple badge. The earliest ones were purple badged, they then switched mid-stream to red, then came up with the full implementation of the Remote feature and released the red-badged TLM170R.
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Post by aremos on Jan 28, 2019 17:36:20 GMT -6
Thanks (as always!) for doing this. Main thing is we hope you feel better soon! Chris Thanks. Seems that my voice started waking up today. I have another week before my next concert. So I’ll be fine. aremos , I think it’s an aesthetic thing between the FleA49 and the TLM170. I know the sound of both of them from some great opera recordings. I know the TLM170 from loads of modern classical albums; Rolando Villazon, Renee Fleming, etc. I also know the sound of the 49 from the older school of operatic recordings; Jussi Bjorling, Franco Corelli, and I’m pretty sure Mario Lanza’s later Neapolitan album. Even Jonas Kaufmann’s recent Italian Opera album was done with a pair of 49s. I openly admit that I prefer the mushy warmth of the 49, but I wouldn’t hesitate to use the TLM170 for a client commissioning vocal on a classical piece. Hey "Vincenzo", grazie, per sempre, for doing these shootouts! And this is all subjective & hair splitting on some mics. You sound well on all but I favor the 170 over the 87 & FleA49.
Villazón & Juan Diego Flores have recently used 170's & sound awesome (they'll sound that way with a SM58, I think). The other ones you mentoned used a real M49.
Here's JDF with 2x 170's & 2x 47Fet's & a Schoeps:
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 28, 2019 20:27:43 GMT -6
Thanks. Seems that my voice started waking up today. I have another week before my next concert. So I’ll be fine. aremos , I think it’s an aesthetic thing between the FleA49 and the TLM170. I know the sound of both of them from some great opera recordings. I know the TLM170 from loads of modern classical albums; Rolando Villazon, Renee Fleming, etc. I also know the sound of the 49 from the older school of operatic recordings; Jussi Bjorling, Franco Corelli, and I’m pretty sure Mario Lanza’s later Neapolitan album. Even Jonas Kaufmann’s recent Italian Opera album was done with a pair of 49s. I openly admit that I prefer the mushy warmth of the 49, but I wouldn’t hesitate to use the TLM170 for a client commissioning vocal on a classical piece. Hey "Vincenzo", grazie, per sempre, for doing these shootouts! And this is all subjective & hair splitting on some mics. You sound well on all but I favor the 170 over the 87 & FleA49.
Villazón & Juan Diego Flores have recently used 170's & sound awesome (they'll sound that way with a SM58, I think). The other ones you mentoned used a real M49.
Here's JDF with 2x 170's & 2x 47Fet's & a Schoeps:
Makes me want to blend the FleA 49 with the TLM170 the same way they are using the U47F. That Schoeps is on my list. Trust me. Actually I hope to grab a pair at some point down the line. Obviously the FleA is not a real Neumann, but it’s pretty close. I sometimes debate sending it to Ivan and just having them put the AC701k in it. That’s really the only difference and it effects the low end extension of the mic more than anything. I enjoy posting clips as it has sparked some great conversations with engineers who work on full productions regularly and who get to share their stories, tips, and thoughts with me. I love engineering, but I’m really a studio vocalist looking to learn as much as I can and sharpen my own skills as an engineer. PS: I’ve been listening to JDF’s Latin albums lately. I love hear great opera artists sing folk songs in their native languages and let their hair down a bit.
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Post by aremos on Jan 28, 2019 21:06:30 GMT -6
I haven't A/B'd the FleAs with their "clone counterpart" but I've had all 3 (47, 49, 12) here. It was years ago but had them for a while. Liked the 47 & 49 as their own thing. The 12 left a lot to be desired - not sure if it was before they started using the Cambpell diaphragm. The FleAs I believe use Thiersch capsules (not Neumann - but guess you could insert one in) & different tubes (of course). Don't even think Neumann could pull off a reissue 49, let alone a 47. Love & own the "new" U67. But closer to real 47/49 stuff I like the Bock & Horch - think they both use Haun capsules
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 28, 2019 21:23:35 GMT -6
Yes, the early ones (the TLM170i) are the same transformerless circuitry regardless of red or purple badge. The earliest ones were purple badged, they then switched mid-stream to red, then came up with the full implementation of the Remote feature and released the red-badged TLM170R. Can someone explain how the remote works? I have a TLM 170i, but it still has the "R" in the pattern selector. Would it work with the newer selector or would I need to track down something older?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,921
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Post by ericn on Jan 28, 2019 21:48:34 GMT -6
Esculent as alway, it is definitely a different personality.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 28, 2019 22:06:21 GMT -6
I love how the 170 takes on the pre color so well. You can really tailor the sound.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 28, 2019 23:35:52 GMT -6
Yes, the early ones (the TLM170i) are the same transformerless circuitry regardless of red or purple badge. The earliest ones were purple badged, they then switched mid-stream to red, then came up with the full implementation of the Remote feature and released the red-badged TLM170R. Can someone explain how the remote works? I have a TLM 170i, but it still has the "R" in the pattern selector. Would it work with the newer selector or would I need to track down something older? The R position on the TLM170i is INOP....that feature doesnt’ work until you move to the TLM170R version where they made a phantom power supply with switchable patterns for remote switching. I believe it does so by varying the phantom voltage levels.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 29, 2019 11:02:32 GMT -6
Can someone explain how the remote works? I have a TLM 170i, but it still has the "R" in the pattern selector. Would it work with the newer selector or would I need to track down something older? The R position on the TLM170i is INOP....that feature doesnt’ work until you move to the TLM170R version where they made a phantom power supply with switchable patterns for remote switching. I believe it does so by varying the phantom voltage levels. Ok. Thanks for the heads up. Out of curiosity, how does the R compair to the I? I could seriously consider a 2nd for a pair.
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Post by iamasound on Jan 29, 2019 12:44:13 GMT -6
Dang, another 170i came up near me for a grand, but again another purchase gets in the way, this time a Martin D-18...I guess it's cool, I've wanted an 18 for a while, like forever.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 29, 2019 14:27:24 GMT -6
The R position on the TLM170i is INOP....that feature doesnt’ work until you move to the TLM170R version where they made a phantom power supply with switchable patterns for remote switching. I believe it does so by varying the phantom voltage levels. Ok. Thanks for the heads up. Out of curiosity, how does the R compair to the I? I could seriously consider a 2nd for a pair. I'm not sure as I've never heard an R model. I have a few TLM170i models though and they all sound quite consistent. There is some internet folklore that the "i" model is better in some way but I'd have to hear it to believe it.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 29, 2019 16:14:08 GMT -6
I’m curious what preamps you guys who own the TLM170 are using with them.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 29, 2019 16:49:04 GMT -6
I’m curious what preamps you guys who own the TLM170 are using with them. Sebatron Axis 200 VU tube amp Hardy M-2 Phoenix DRS CAPI V312 and VP28
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Post by aremos on Jan 29, 2019 16:54:43 GMT -6
Avalon AD2022 (M5)
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 29, 2019 20:20:47 GMT -6
That’s a fairly diverse list from clean to colored. I like it. I liked it through my SSL Alpha Channel with a little color from the VHD. It’s very modern, but nice. I also enjoyed it on my Demeter VTMP. That pre adds great tube warmth without really imparting crazy color. It’s my favorite preamp for non tube mics.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 30, 2019 0:45:58 GMT -6
Actually, I’m usually working so quickly in a session that I don’t pay much attention to which preamp the 170 goes into. I’m thinking mic color first, preamp color second.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 1, 2019 22:10:37 GMT -6
I’ve been enjoying putting the TLM 170 through its paces a bit. I’m a little surprised at how much I like it on operatic vocals. I shouldn’t be surprised, but it’s a pleasant surprise. Still think stylistically I enjoy my FleA 49 a little better, but the 170 sounds really nice, especially when I’m letting it rip. I’m very happy with this investment so far. Can’t wait for an excuse to really use it on a client or project. http://instagram.com/p/BtXKYk8luCO
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Post by drbill on Feb 1, 2019 22:14:36 GMT -6
I’ve been enjoying putting the TLM 170 through its paces a bit. I’m a little surprised at how much I like it on operatic vocals. I shouldn’t be surprised, but it’s a pleasant surprise. Still think stylistically I enjoy my FleA 49 a little better, but the 170 sounds really nice, especially when I’m letting it rip. I’m very happy with this investment so far. Can’t wait for an excuse to really use it on a client or project. http://instagr.am/p/BtXKYk8luCO nice Vincent! Are you still using the RMS269? Saw your demo on the RMS site the other day....
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 2, 2019 9:04:15 GMT -6
I’ve been enjoying putting the TLM 170 through its paces a bit. I’m a little surprised at how much I like it on operatic vocals. I shouldn’t be surprised, but it’s a pleasant surprise. Still think stylistically I enjoy my FleA 49 a little better, but the 170 sounds really nice, especially when I’m letting it rip. I’m very happy with this investment so far. Can’t wait for an excuse to really use it on a client or project. nice Vincent! Are you still using the RMS269? Saw your demo on the RMS site the other day.... I played around with the RMS269 most of last year. I really liked it in the context of that big rock ballad. I probably would have used it on a cello too. I’m a huge fan of Richard Marx and know that the M269 is his mic of choice, so I knew it would work in that context. Unfortunately, it became a casualty of my Mac crapping out on me. It sounded fine on my wife, but stylistically wasn’t what I was looking for. I also have the BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II with their B0 and B6 and I felt they could cover that rock ballad base for me if I needed. Also, I don’t think the U87ai was bad in that context either, particularly through my Demeter VTMP. My wife actually sounds great on BLUE’s ne B11 (U67ish) cap, my FleA49, or the U87 in more of a pop context. So I ended up finding it a new home with a guy who does more of that Rock style exclusively, and last I spoke to him he was loving the mic on his voice. Now I’m looking at 251 style mics. A friend of mine is going to loan me his Bock 251 to test and make a video with. If I fall in love that will be a big purchase though. Also talking with Chad at Signal Arts Electronics about his custom 251 build which looks really nice and has some really nice specs. We’ll see.
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Post by Mister Chase on Feb 2, 2019 10:16:27 GMT -6
nice Vincent! Are you still using the RMS269? Saw your demo on the RMS site the other day.... I played around with the RMS269 most of last year. I really liked it in the context of that big rock ballad. I probably would have used it on a cello too. I’m a huge fan of Richard Marx and know that the M269 is his mic of choice, so I knew it would work in that context. Unfortunately, it became a casualty of my Mac crapping out on me. It sounded fine on my wife, but stylistically wasn’t what I was looking for. I also have the BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II with their B0 and B6 and I felt they could cover that rock ballad base for me if I needed. Also, I don’t think the U87ai was bad in that context either, particularly through my Demeter VTMP. My wife actually sounds great on BLUE’s ne B11 (U67ish) cap, my FleA49, or the U87 in more of a pop context. So I ended up finding it a new home with a guy who does more of that Rock style exclusively, and last I spoke to him he was loving the mic on his voice. Now I’m looking at 251 style mics. A friend of mine is going to loan me his Bock 251 to test and make a video with. If I fall in love that will be a big purchase though. Also talking with Chad at Signal Arts Electronics about his custom 251 build which looks really nice and has some really nice specs. We’ll see. Also check out the ADK 251 and the Upton. Those are apparently great 251s.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 2, 2019 15:47:19 GMT -6
Yeah, the ADK stuff looks nice, and from what I've heard, sounds nice. I've actually reached out the ADK in the hopes of demoing one of their high end mics. Unfortunately, they are made to order and they don't have any they can allow me to demo. I was really looking at the Bock since it seems more mellow and fuller than other 251s I've heard. Chad also mentioned his has a deeper low extension as well. I find that I'm at a point with my studio that I would rather wait a little longer and/or spend a little more for a piece of equipment that is about as good as it gets.
I'll make find or make a different thread when I'm ready to discuss the 251 with everyone. I'm sure a bunch of guys have things to say about it including JohnK.
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