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Post by longscale on Aug 26, 2018 14:55:11 GMT -6
I've had a pair of NS10s forever. I've set them up - and taken them down several times over the decades. I never really understood them so they have sat in their boxes for years and years. Then a friend who is into Jazz read some review where they raved about the pure mids of the NS10s. I laughed quite hard at the idea of the NS10s as some audiophile blessing, but he wanted to hear them so I dug them out and set them up paired with a small Adcom amp I had laying around. I listened to them with some reference material for a few weeks to get their sound back into my head. I then decided to try to use them top to bottom for a small demo project (mostly all acoustic instruments, steel string guitars, mandolin, upright bass, and male vocals). I did flip a few times to my usual monitors just to sanity check what was going on in the bottom end - but mostly I stayed in the NS10s throughout the tracking/mixing process. I hate to say it but they really made things easy for me. I did not have the typical low end jumble that I fight against. Now don't get me wrong they (NS10s) sound ghastly (papery) but they allowed me to make some engineering choices that resulted in goodness (imo). I think I finally get them - and might start using them more. Then again I might just be confused again.
Do others find tracking and mixing on small speakers makes things easier? If so can you elaborate on why?
I was quite happy with how the rough mix translated in a few other systems without me having to spend any time on the usual issues I fight with. Typically I end up with too much energy in the bottom end that starts to make every other choice difficult and creates a muddy mess. Not so when I made my choices in tracking with the NS10s. Perhaps I just got lucky and had a good day.
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Post by drbill on Aug 26, 2018 15:16:39 GMT -6
Yeah....they can work.
But I find mixing on NS10's such an unpleasant experience. Been there, done that. And I'm finished with it. Music should be fun and inspiring, not a pain in the ears. There are other ways to achieve the same thing, and I can't see why I should subject myself to working on them again. So I sold em. Netted a nice profit as I recall. I'm not opposed to small speakers......just NS10's.
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Post by winetree on Aug 26, 2018 15:48:00 GMT -6
Computer>Silver Kimber USB cable>Pro-ject S2>Mogami digital cable> Jim Williams modded Adcom GFA 545> Sound Runner Cable>modded passive X-over>split in 2-10" passive sub, NS10Ms, Auratones and various other speakers. The NS10Ms have modified X-overs. Just modding the NS10M's x-overs with new caps makes a World of difference, Smoother, better field of depth and sound field. Makes them Pleasant to listen to. What goes in comes out. Nobody can believe they're NS10Ms or Aurtones.
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NS-10Ms
Aug 26, 2018 17:45:28 GMT -6
Post by swurveman on Aug 26, 2018 17:45:28 GMT -6
Though I don't exclusively use my NS10M's, I do use them along with my main speakers which are ADAM A7X's. For me, they are most effective listening to them at a low volume similar to a conversation. They are particularly useful for me in a/b'ing reference mixes with my mixes.
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NS-10Ms
Aug 26, 2018 18:55:43 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Aug 26, 2018 18:55:43 GMT -6
I tend to get my mixes together on ns10s then switch over to my JBLs.
I can't mix on them more than a few minutes, but I can get mixes together quickly on them due to that midrange clarity. They certainly point out any issues.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 27, 2018 9:41:30 GMT -6
I hated the NS 10's I used every day for a decade. When I returned to the music business, I tried KRK, Yamaha's powered monitors, Adam A7X's, and settled on Avantone Abbey's. I had to sell them and went back to NS 10's. I get better, quicker mixes on them than all the speakers I tried except the Avantone's. I have the vintage Studio version now, and prefer it to the original version.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Aug 27, 2018 14:18:48 GMT -6
I get lots of mileage out of mine even after getting my Footprint 01’s. I don’t expect them to sound good, but I know what good mixes sound like on them. I think a lot of it has to do with sitting and setting up mixes for hours on end as an assistant and always just putting things through the 10’s pretty low. I just know them so well at this point.
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NS-10Ms
Aug 27, 2018 15:57:46 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 27, 2018 15:57:46 GMT -6
Dang Jeremy, you got the Footprints, great news! How do you like them compared to ATC or Amphion? I've only heard the Micro Mains and they were superb.
I just wondered if the new Avantone CLA10's are like the original Ns-10's or if they're like the Studio version. I like the Studio types better.
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Post by raddistribution on Aug 28, 2018 4:58:15 GMT -6
they are based on the studio version
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NS-10Ms
Aug 28, 2018 6:24:50 GMT -6
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Post by jeremygillespie on Aug 28, 2018 6:24:50 GMT -6
Dang Jeremy, you got the Footprints, great news! How do you like them compared to ATC or Amphion? I've only heard the Micro Mains and they were superb. I just wondered if the new Avantone CLA10's are like the original Ns-10's or if they're like the Studio version. I like the Studio types better. I only got to hear the Amphion at AES and had a difficult time deciding if I liked them because of the program material. It was nothing I’d really heard before and mostly world music. So - difficult to hear what was going on with them. They were indeed pretty sounding but couldn’t tell how useful they would be for me. I’ve worked a few times in a room that has SCM25a’s. While enjoying the listening experience on them, I found the mids very confusing to work with, and the bottom end just a bit too loose for my liking. Granted, I don’t think they were ideally placed for the room, and I’ve also never really liked nearfields/midfields that are ported. I just don’t get on with that design. The footprints on the other hand have a pretty in your face mid, which I dig, while also having sweet highs, and the most punchy but full bottom. They go low enough that I don’t need a sub, which is good as I despise using subs, especially in rooms that aren’t designed to use them. Honeymoon period is over and I still couldn’t be any happier with my purchase. I will say, I generally work on music that has a fair amount of space. I’ve got 2 buddies that do a lot of heavy rock music, and when listening to that material the heavy guitars sounded just straight up painful. I don’t think I could deal with that all day, and it has to do with how forward the mids are on the Footprints. One of them uses ATC’s and the other uses Adams with a sub both to great results.
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NS-10Ms
Aug 28, 2018 8:40:33 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 28, 2018 8:40:33 GMT -6
they are based on the studio version Cool. Smart move.
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Post by hasbeen on Sept 5, 2018 7:19:48 GMT -6
I hated mine for years until I put them closer together. Now I love them. Yamaha P2200 amp. Mixing rock and pushing them just to the edge of distortion.
Yes I know I violate all kinds of MAX DB rules for mixing but it moves me and I feel the bass in my gut. What more could I axe for?
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Post by svart on Sept 5, 2018 12:33:47 GMT -6
Dang Jeremy, you got the Footprints, great news! How do you like them compared to ATC or Amphion? I've only heard the Micro Mains and they were superb. I just wondered if the new Avantone CLA10's are like the original Ns-10's or if they're like the Studio version. I like the Studio types better. I have the NS10-T versions. I checked out the crossover differences with the studio version, and they're minuscule, something like <10% difference in crossover frequency. I changed the crossover values to match the studio version and I experienced no difference in how they sound. I'm certain at this point that the majority of the NS10 tone comes from the drivers themselves as the crossovers are nothing more than single stage filters.
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NS-10Ms
Feb 18, 2019 14:02:29 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 18, 2019 14:02:29 GMT -6
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NS-10Ms
Feb 19, 2019 13:44:11 GMT -6
Post by svart on Feb 19, 2019 13:44:11 GMT -6
I recently switched out my amp to an unused pioneer receiver and I'd swear the NS10's sound better. Worked on a mix for a while like this. Mix came together quickly, ears rang for an hour afterwards. Good old NS10 ear fatigue. Now I can't tell if they were different or not.
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ericn
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NS-10Ms
Feb 19, 2019 18:51:21 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2019 18:51:21 GMT -6
I recently switched out my amp to an unused pioneer receiver and I'd swear the NS10's sound better. Worked on a mix for a while like this. Mix came together quickly, ears rang for an hour afterwards. Good old NS10 ear fatigue. Now I can't tell if they were different or not. Well they were originally sold with a Yamaha POS all in one system so a receiver of that era should give you the true NS10 experience, as painful as that would be.
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NS-10Ms
Mar 15, 2019 18:56:46 GMT -6
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Post by christopher on Mar 15, 2019 18:56:46 GMT -6
The other day I decided to setup the 10s and was kinda let down. I tried playing some modern radio music as a reference and it just sounded terrible, really nasally and annoyingly bright. I figured it must be time to retire them.
So as I start to look at new monitors, I’m remembering which mixes are my favorite. I’m realizing that my favorite recordings of all time were from late 60s/70s and mid 90’s. 50s, 60s, 80s, all have great examples too.. but something about 69-79 and 1993-1998 resonate with me.
For 60/70s I don’t know how they mixed those. But the 90s they had NS10s.. so what gives? How could they stand to mix on 10s? Then I remembered that if you don’t play a reference, and instead just mix to make 10s sound good, they are actually kind of fun to mix on. Then you can let the mastering do whatever they do.
I decided to give the NS10s another listening chance today, this time played one of my favs; DSOTM.
And what did I realize? NO annoying bright sound! NONE. Instead it sounds great. Low mids are slightly boxy like I’d expect, but otherwise was a beautiful, wonderful listening experience. Blasted it and when the woman is shrieking, just amazing.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 15, 2019 19:04:41 GMT -6
Depends on the amp you use with it. Also, the Studio version is a little less edgy. NS-10's were big in the 80's, not as much in the 90's though they never left the studios they were in. I mixed my recent album on them because I had to sell my big fancy hi end monitors to pay bills, and they worked beautifully. I borrowed a pair from a friend, but had to buy a power amp to use with them. I'd been through a bunch of power amps back when I had my own home studio, and the Adcom amps brought out the best in them. I had to return the NS-10's, so I'm selling the modded/upgraded Adcom amp I used with them in case anyone's interested. Right here at real gear: realgearonline.com/thread/9613/adcom-gfa-power-modded-upgraded
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NS-10Ms
Mar 15, 2019 19:09:14 GMT -6
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Post by christopher on Mar 15, 2019 19:09:14 GMT -6
So then maybe I’m misled.. what were the major labels using in the 90s?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 15, 2019 20:53:35 GMT -6
NS-10's became a thing in the 80's. They were part of a cheap stereo system Yamaha made and they found their way into studios as a reference because they were meant for the average stereo listener. I don't think he was the first, but Bob Clearmountain cemented their iconic status by mixing some now classic albums on them. By the 90's everyone had them, so everyone else got them for compatibility purposes.
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ericn
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NS-10Ms
Mar 18, 2019 9:30:08 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Mar 18, 2019 9:30:08 GMT -6
NS-10's became a thing in the 80's. They were part of a cheap stereo system Yamaha made and they found their way into studios as a reference because they were meant for the average stereo listener. I don't think he was the first, but Bob Clearmountain cemented their iconic status by mixing some now classic albums on them. By the 90's everyone had them, so everyone else got them for compatibility purposes. You forgot the number one reason every studio had them they were cheap! And they were built that way !
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 18, 2019 9:54:49 GMT -6
I'm sure that was part of the equation!
I sold my Adcom amp this weekend.
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NS-10Ms
Mar 18, 2019 10:01:32 GMT -6
Post by Bob Olhsson on Mar 18, 2019 10:01:32 GMT -6
They really need to be placed on a console bridge.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 18, 2019 10:21:55 GMT -6
They really need to be placed on a console bridge. A deep meter bridge, I have seen the results of many a NS10 placed on a typical lowend to mid priced bridge because the owner didn’t realize how deep a real meter bridge. Suddenly you see how cheap they were built after they crash to the floor.
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Post by cyrano on Mar 18, 2019 12:21:52 GMT -6
There are at least six different speakers labelled "NS10". Up to a 5.1 set.
None of these can be called "studio monitors" as far as I'm concerned. As Svart stated, the difference between the standard and the "studio" version is minimal. It's all just marketing. Yamaha couldn't sell them to the Hifi crowd, they ended up in a studio by accident and that's where the legend started...
What perhaps could be used as a monitor, is the much bigger NS1000. Hardly sold outside of Japan and reached mythical proportions with the audiofools in the latest years. Any decent pair that appears on ebay will easily reach a 1000$.
I like how the NS10 sounds, but can't listen to them for longer than half an hour or so. The word "papery" sounds right. I can imagine them being useful as a second opinion, tho.
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